Talk:Kosovo/Archive 13

Previous discussion have been archived. Editors interested in improving this article are encouraged to see also Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12 (especially the last few) Please also see this subpage which contains a list of descriptions of Kosovo's status from other sources: /Sources

Prizen is bigger that Mitrovica

I have reverted an edit today that stated Mitrovica in the north was bigger than Prizen. In its dreams. Buffadren 14:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

2004 River incident

The two first comments have been copied here from my talk page. - Ev 14:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it is worded too strongly but the river incident is important to explain how things sparked off. There is doubt about the facts and even one child that survived supposed though the UN said they were not chased. Others say there were and the family have been pressed by UN etc. Either way it should be mentioned.Its not a minor event...I am happy to have you phrase it if you like Buffadren 14:10, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

As my edit summary states, I removed the text because it was unsourced. – The current Attribution policy clearly states that "[t]he threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is whether material is attributable to a reliable published source, not whether it is true", then going on to say that "any unsourced material may be removed".

For uncontrovertial text I simply add the {{fact}} tag, but when it comes to "the alleged chasing of four Albanian children into a river where they drowned" I prefer to have the sentence well-sourced or not at all.

In any case, I would prefer to have any new wording discussed [here]. My personal feeling is that the issue should be explained in detail at the 2004 unrest in Kosovo article, but that it doesn't merit a mention in the brief summary of the main Kosovo article. - Best regards, Ev 14:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Your suggestions are well considered, I will get those sources for you and if not we shall agree to exclude it. Buffadren 16:53, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is an article from the BBC that refers to the children but not in enough detail to be acceptable for i'd imagine but let me know. [[1]] Buffadren 17:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

If we really want that text, we could source it with this Amnesty International report: The March Violence: KFOR and UNMIK’s failure to protect the rights of the minority communities (July 8, 2004) (see the 3rd paragraph), or this Human Rights Watch one: The Sparks That Caused a Fire (July 2004) .

However, in my opinion the clear and concise wording by Envoy202 (was sparked by a series of minor events that soon cascaded into large-scale riots) is much better suited for this article than a more detaild one (along the lines of was sparked by a series of events including the alleged chasing of four Albanian children into a river where they drowned, This and other events soon cascaded into large-scale riots).

1). Because the incidents were minor, basically rumors and unproved allegations. There's no need to go into such details in this brief summary of events.
More important is how those allegations were manipulated to escalate the situation; see this OSCE report: The Role of the Media in the March 2004 Events in Kosovo (.pdf), Vienna, 2004.

2). Because we already have the 2004 unrest in Kosovo sub-article (linked from "Kosovo after the War" sub-section) where such details can be expanded at will.

3). Because mentioning the March 16 chase & drowning of three Albanian children will surely lead Serbian editors to call for the inclusion of the March 15 shooting of an 18-years-old Serb in Caglavica (not to mention the many other incidents by both sides that had ocurred in the previous months) making the "brief summary of events" even longer and more detailed.

Of course, if other editors agree to include this detail in the text, I will respect the consensus :-) Best regards, Ev 18:21, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there is enough evidence to back its inclusion and to refer to it some way may infer that there is. I think we should 'park' it for now and let it rest. However I do suggest that we remove the word 'minor' as this word caused me to include the Children incident. We can revisit it again some time if needed.Buffadren 13:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

As I mentioned above, I find that the incidents themselves were minor, and that Envoy202's wording adequately describe the situation. – When the text was discussed (see 90s History...Take Two) there were no objections to the word "minor". Let's wait and see what other editors have to say about the issue :-) Best regards, Ev 02:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree,even though the word is misplaced.It implies that the Albanians kicked off trouble without any provocation. Buffadren 15:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't read the word "minor" as implying lack of cause/justification for the subsequent violence. That could be the case in an isolated sentence or paragraph; but here, in the context of the "Kosovo After the War" sub-section within the the "Modern history" section, just one paragraph after mentioning the refugee crisises and the numbers of deaths, it is clear that the situation was quite tense, and that a minor incident was all that was needed to spark major troubles (as is usually the case in such situations). – I don't expect any reasonable person reading the article to come to the conclusion that the unrest started because of a minor incident only.

As I see it, this minor incident itself was not the real cause of the unrests, but merely the spark that lead Albanians to vent resentments and frustration with the slow pace of change. If anything, the provocation that led Albanians to "kick off trouble" was not the minor incident itself, but its use and manipulation as a rallying cry to escalate and justify the unrests, and thus send a clear message to all parties involved in the region. - Best regards, Ev 20:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Official languages in Kosovo

Please refer to Kosovo Assembly Law 02/L-37 [2] Article 2 names Albanian and Serbian as the official languages of Kosovo, and continues with

"In municipalities inhabited by a community whose mother tongue is not an official language, and which constitutes at least five (5) percent of the total population of the municipality, the language of the community shall have the status of an official language in the municipality and shall be in equal use with the official languages."

Prizren is cited as an exception in this article, as Turkish shall be an official language there. Additionally, this legislation has a further category: Languages in official use (Article 2.4). This Kosovo Law was promulgated by UNMIK Regulation No. 2006/51.--ams 22:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I think you find that we have dealt with this in detail in the Talk Page archives.Buffadren 13:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you think that the article would be improved by changing or adding something about Kosovo's official languages, Alexmarysimp/ams ? - Regards, Ev 20:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

On the flag of Kosovo

File:Flagofkosovo2.PNG

this may be the flag of kosovo in kosovo's independents movement.

just asking permission to add it before i actually add it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thegreatferret36 (talk • contribs) 18:34, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It would certainly be an interesting addition, Thegreatferret36 :-) However, the current Wikipedia Attribution policy requires that we cite the provenance of any fact/information mentioned in (or added to) the article, and that only reliable sources are to be used to this end.

So, do you know of any reliable published source mentioning this flag proposal ? How did you came to know about it ? - Best regards, Ev 20:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)