Talk:Kun Khmer

citation question

I'm really not sure how to cite references so I am putting that info here. In the pradal serey today section, there are two requests for citations, one regarding bayon tv fights the other regarding CTN's kun khmer championship tv series. there are mentions to both here: http://www.paddysgym.com/news/, with links to photos of both fights at bayon tv stadium (http://www.paddysgym.com/photos/main.php?g2_itemId=179), and ma serey and eh phoutang under a kun khmer championship banner taken at the press conference (http://www.paddysgym.com/photos/main.php?g2_itemId=93) announcing the show. hope that helps, and apologies if this is the wrong format or in the wrong place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PPGrasshopper (talk • contribs) 02:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

more info?

What else should i put?Ifire 03:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

well, we don't have any source that says he is of khmer ancestory,only that he can speak khmer,so that thing you put up might be controversary since we dont have complete source that states that.only strong evidence that you can assume he is khmer. o yea sign your name when you wriete here.Ifire 20:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Disambiguation

There is a link to [[Development]] on this page that is linking to a disambiguation page. I'm not sure which (if any) of the more specific pages on types of development would be a better link in this context. Could someone please review the choices available and either re-direct the link or delete it? Thanks.—Chidom ^talk  09:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

"We can fight with Thai boxers, but we can't be in that [Muay Thai] federation," boxing association referee Meas Sokry said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.123.237.240 (talk) 11:27, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Pradal Serey fighters vs Muy Thai fighters

Not that there really is too much of a difference in style, but are there any available online records of fights between the two?

Failed GA Nomination

This article was listed as a GA nominee by Figer (talk · contribs) on 7 October 2006 (see [1]), but no {{GA nominee}} tag was given in this talk page. So I assume that indeed this article was nominated and the user forgot to put this tag.

As of 7 October 2006, I'm making a speedy failing for good article, because this article is totally unsourced, per WP:WIAGA. Please read again WP:CITE to conform the three pillars of Wikipedia: verifiability, neutral point of view and no original research. I've put {{Unreferenced}} tag in the aritcle, but please do not feel it as discouraging. Please take a time to include reliable sources before putting this article for GA nomination. Please also read what is Good Article guideline. If this matter has been resolved, you may renominate this article back. Cheers. — Indon (reply) —

I have failed the renomination. There are now some citations, but nowhere near enough. The article is also insufficiently broad in coverage to be promoted e.g. How is the sport organised? Is it promoter led like boxing, or are there tournaments? The closest type of article to this to have good or featured status is Sumo, maybe that article could give some ideas for structure and layout. The list of notable Khmer boxers does not establish criteria for inclusion, how does the reader know they are notable? Oldelpaso 10:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

It's going to be a while before this article can actually be considered good. There is not much information regarding Pradal Serey. Whatever you can find online comes from editorials, discussion forums, and other biased articles. There isn't a reliable source that has published any information on Pradal Serey, not as far as I know. What is mostly known is by word of mouth. --Cantharellus 01:15, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Which is hardly surprising, given the recent history of Cambodia (as mentioned in this article, even). I'm not defending the lack of sources (I am, but not in this context), just wondering why this article was nominated in the first place. However, as for "biased" articles, I would suggest that writer Antonio Graceffo is relatively neutral, as he writes print articles about numerous SEAsian martial arts, including both Muay Thai and Kun Khmer. To the original point, about sources, are we setting Kun Khmer up for failure? Given that anything printed now will be "after the fact" and open to accusations of revisionism, following the theme of "all the primary witnesses were killed by Pol Pot" and everything anybody says now is automatically "word of mouth" and therefore "hearsay"?KhProd1 (talk) 06:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Format

Is there a reason why the History section was move before the Rules section? If not I would like to revert back to the old format.ATTFFX (talk) 07:41, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I am not the editor who made the move, but I agree that the History section should indeed stay before the Rules section. There are a few reasons for this. Firstly, it is consistent with the format of Wikipedia's other articles on martial arts (see Hapkido and Aikido, for example). Secondly, if this is to be a true "encyclopedia", the emphasis of these articles should be the academic study of the topics, not a how-to guide. Consequently, the history, influences, and comparison with other martial arts is more important than the current rules for organized competition. --William Thweatt ^Talk | ^Contribs 14:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Are there any ancient bas-relief that really depict Pradal Serey

It's said that the main argument of the origin of Pradal Serey is based on the bas-relief but which bas-relief, if not the one that depict wrestling?

If there's no bas relief that depict the picture that really resemble to pradal serey then it cannot be considered as a evidence for a long history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abcdedf (talk • contribs) 01:32, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

The association with Pradal Serey with the bas-relief can be cited through the first and last reference source. And it seems your editing includes original research. Remember the the three pillars of Wikipedia: verifiability, neutral point of view and no original research. You should take a look at it.Asian888 (talk) 01:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes there are and I will be uploading the images shortly.KhProd1 (talk) 05:21, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Kun Khmer

This article need to change its name to Kun Khmer. The CABF refer to Khmer Boxing as Kun Khmer. On television it is referred to as Kun Khmer. On the web it is now commonly referred to as Kun Khmer.KhProd1 (talk) 05:24, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

No, it shouldn't Pradal Serey is a more popular phrase. It betters grasp the idea of freestyle fighting based on no forms. Kun Khmer is just slang for Khmer martial arts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.234.149.2 (talk) 02:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Kun Khmer definitely has forms. You clearly misunderstand the "free" of "free-fighting". This is not a "freestyle" martial art. This sport-fighting art has a very limited number of forms. Khun Khmer is no more slang than "Pradal Serey". As noted in the article, Pradal Serey has been (note: has been) the popular usage, it is not the official usage.KhProd1 (talk) 13:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Please show me a reputable citation that says Kun Khmer is the official term for this martial art.69.106.5.23 (talk) 20:29, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

photo of CTN commentators?

Can someone get an up-to-date photo of the CTN commentators? Just how old is that one, anyway? It looks like it should be in the "history" section...KhProd1 (talk) 09:50, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

How so? CTN only started in 2003.Pwordisony (talk) 07:44, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and it is in the history section. Its next to where it is taking about the television stationsPwordisony (talk) 07:48, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

On the subject of photos..."Angkor region"? Can't we get a definitive listing for the temple that bas-relief comes from? There are hundreds of temples in the "Angkor region".KhProd1 (talk) 11:37, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm shocked...

Are there any academic publications that actually claim those bas-reliefs are of specifically an art called 'pradal serey?' This is a modern term. Even the link to the apsaras of Angkor Wat and modern court dance is easily challenged. Although stone inscription describe court dancers, there is no proof that those bas-reliefs actually represented court dancers, just devatas. In the same vein, how do we know these bas-reliefs of men sparring is the same martial art that is practiced today? Who is to say this is or is not a precursor to 'pradal serey?' Or, it could be a totally different form of martial arts. --Dara (talk) 18:19, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention, some of the bas-relief pictures show up in the bokator article aslo. So what are they depicting? Bokator or pradal serey? At the most, I would personally say they are precursors to modern Cambodian martial arts. To claim these bas-reliefs are depicting bokator or pradal serey is unfounded; you know the saying, a picture says a thousand words, but that's all opinion. --Dara (talk) 18:59, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Copy and use Muay Thai movement

Khmer Copy and use Muay Thai movement Dkungdjung (talk) 10:23, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Kun Khmer

Kun Khmer is developed from Muay Thai but Cambodian claims Muay Thai to be them.Thanestk (talk) 14:30, 31 January 2023 (UTC). Khu Khmer definitely copies and uses rules of mordern Muay Thai which conflict claiming whether it is an original or root of Muay Thai.

Copy Muay thai

Edit 100+ Copy from thailand all everyting 2001:44C8:4702:B93C:3458:B51A:8B32:B04 (talk) 07:37, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2023

1. Redirect Kun Khmer 36.37.206.65 (talk) 02:42, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: The article lives here currently. Any relocation of the article would need to be done through the WP:Requested move process, which would include a discussion to determine the common name, as used in English, of the subject. —C.Fred (talk) 02:44, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 April 2023

The Bokator was unknown in Cambodia until 1990 when San Kim Sean returned from the United States to Phnom Penh in Cambodia as a rescued (inventor) of the Bokator. Who is San Kim Sean? San Kim Sean left Cambodia for the refugee camp of Khao-I-Dang in Thailand in 1979 on September 29, 1980 he left Thailand and lived in the refugee camp in Houston in the United States later in the year 1984 he was lived in Long Beach, California. He was a Hapkido Professor at the academy in the USA. He taught Hapkido for ten years in the US without any highlights he was just another Hapkido teacher. But when he returned from the US to Cambodia in 1990 he "recreated" using traditional Khmer boxing as a base and using the name of a supposedly Khmer legend from the Angkorian period to name his new fighting style the Bokator this all with feelings anti-Thai and radical nationalism. He created the Bokator Academy Academy, created the Bokator Federation and even a restaurant, the San Kim Sean Kun Bokator Restaurant Club located on Abacus Lane in Siem Reap. But San Kim Sean only had recognition of his style in Cambodia in 2001 when he was recognized by the government of Cambodia. San Kim Sean teaching Hap Ki Do in the US had never spoken Bokator while living in the US Much of Bokator's appearance is due to the film Ong-Bak: Muay Thai Warrior by actor Tony Jaa. After this film, Bokator masters began to appear. OttoNo1 (talk) 17:11, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. @OttoNo1: You need to cite your sources. —C.Fred (talk) 00:15, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Page move request

Should this page be renamed to "Kun Khmer", now that it has appeared in an official sporting event? Dancing Hippos (talk) 14:25, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Regarding Thai ultra-nationalist netizens

There appears to be a few talk topics that basically rants about "Cambodia (Khmer) copying Thai culture" and none of them are constructive. These are seemingly Thai netizens caught up in ultra-nationalism sentiments with their Cambodian neighbors. The truth is, there's a lot of shared culture, traditions, and customs between both Cambodians and Thai as well as Laos. Most of Thailand was once part of the Khmer Empire and so there's Khmer influence on the Thai. Later when the Khmer Empire was weakened, the Thai asserted influence on the Khmer. As a result, there's been an exchange of culture between the two over centuries. During the Khmer Rouge period, a lot of Cambodian scholars and people in academia were executed and many records and books were destroyed. Cambodia also endured decades of civil war after the Khmer Rouge were ousted from power. During this time, Thailand had decades to promote its culture to the world. More recently, Cambodia is experiencing an era of heightened cultural revival through arts, food, tourism, entertainment, and traditions due to a more stabilized country and a better economy. Martial arts in Cambodia is currently one aspect of Cambodian (Khmer) culture being heavily promoted both locally and internationally. As a result, you have folks on both sides of the border ranting about the origins and whatnot online and through social media. 205.175.118.96 (talk) 21:29, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2023

We are trying to show the comparison between Kun Kmher with other martial art in Southeast Asia. This topic has been asked from everyone in the world, and we are here to awnswer. Paopsst (talk) 15:34, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 15:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Vandalised Page

Some thai nationalist has vandalise this page by putting bogus info, needs fixing and protection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pradal_serey#COMPARISON_OF_KUN_KMHER_WITH_NEIGHBORHOOD 45.118.77.241 (talk) 12:56, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 12 November 2023

Pradal serey → Kun Khmer – I initially moved this pace per a WP:RMT request however after another user followed up on it stating it was controversial I decided it does need an RM. The original reason for the RM/TR was 'The term "pradal serey" has become obsolete in both Khmer and international literature. The inscription of the sport in the SEA Games 2023 as well as the name of the official federation (Kun Khmer International Federation) under the name "Kun Khmer" makes it legitimate to consider that Kun Khmer is now the reference term to design Khmer Boxing)'. Zippybonzo | talk | contribs (he|she|they) 21:26, 12 November 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 03:24, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I am the one who requested the move. I can’t see why the move was controversial, a martial art can indeed be known by multiple name and I’m not saying "pradal serey" should not be included in alternative names, but I find it legitimate that the article should be named after the most well-known name of the martial art which is Kun Khmer.

In 2023, Kun Lbokator, a Khmer martial art was added on UNESCO World Heritage List with on the nomination file the following alternative names: "Kun Khmer, Kbach Kun Khmer, Kun Bokator, Bokator", so Pradal Serey is not even included. The federation itself is named "Kun Khmer International Federation", I find it hard to understand why would the wikipedia article of the martial art be named after another name than the one used in this martial art’s competitions, federation, belt trophies and equipments (all the shorts used in Khmer Boxing have written on it "Kun Khmer" in Khmer). Louistrinh (talk) 21:55, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Martial arts has been notified of this discussion. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 03:23, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Cambodia has been notified of this discussion. — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 03:24, 21 November 2023 (UTC)