Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Poland

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{{User WikiProject Poland}}

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{{User WPMILHIST Polish military history task force}}

File:PB Poland CoA.png

This user is a member of the Polish military history task force of the Military history WikiProject.

Silesians

Heve we got any idea how to deal with this article? Many articles that lik there refers no to modern ethnic group but to tribe of Ślężanie Radomil talk 23:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Split? Ślężanie can certainly use the article, what's left is about modern Silesians.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:Herb K Maly.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Herb K Maly.gif. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, then you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, then their copyright should also be acknowledged.

As well as adding the source, please add a proper copyright licensing tag if the file doesn't have one already. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self-no-disclaimers}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Wikipedia:Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 15:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Liftarn 15:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

This is User:Emax artifact. Please help with fixing it.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Darwinek on trial

One of our members, User:Darwinek, has shown some bad judgement recently (blocking opponents he was involved in a dispute). This is being discussed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Darwinek 2 and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Darwinek. I believe some friendly but stern comments about 'with great power comes great responsibility' would help Darwinek to understand the situation. I believe he has made a mistake (or several) and should be more careful in the future, although some proposed solution (including banning from the project!) seem over the top.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:22, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, please do not use strawman arguments to canvass supporters. Obviously, the banning won't fly. Desysopping might as the user has a pattern of poor judgment and repetition of bad blocks after past apologies. Also, the user in question has repeatedly attacked his opponents with extreme offenses including in non-Enlgish, including after requests to at least use English. Some of such offenses took place in your own exchanges with Darwinek, also in Polish, were you joined him and used ethnic slurs bashing your and Darwinek's "enemies". --Irpen 18:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't suppose you have any diffs to support any of your accusations? This board is not the place for your personal grievances against various editors. Appleseed (Talk) 18:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, at least we have another evidence of Irpen accusing his opponents of canvassing and using ethnic slurrs...-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Falsely accusing you mean? This persistent demands for the diffs aimed at wasting my time when you know exactly what I am talking about goes on and on. But here it is just for you. [1] [2] --Irpen 19:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, thank you for providing diffs to the place where Darwinek explains in Zaolzie gwara this word has no negative connotations he is aware off. But of course you assume bad faith and go on to accuse him of ethnic slurrs in several places over the past few months...-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, in that particular set of diffs, an ethnic slur came from your mouth where you responded to Darwinek. Darwinek entry was simply a very disrespectful comment on directed towards his peer-editors. And I also meant to include this one, to which your gracious entry was a response. --Irpen 19:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Sigh. Why do you forget to mention that this 'ethnic slur' was discussed at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Piotrus (which ended in another editor close to getting a civility parole and certainly no consensus it was an ethnic slurr), similar no consensus at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive145#Disruption_during_polls_and_xenophobic_remarks - and in any case since some do perceive it as offensive, I apologized for it (at User:Durova/Mediation - even through, I repeat again, many users agreed it is not offensive). You, on the other hand, have never apologized for many personal attacks you've made on my person - such as your constant accusations of canvassing/vote staking (just see this page, do I need to provide a diff?).-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  19:50, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

My "accusation" for the vote staking is not a personal attacks. If you can show any evidence of my "attacks" on you, I am ready to look at it and withdraw if there were any. It is, however, Darwinek, who is on trial here. I think the user went much further than accusing others of staking and canvassing as I have explained above. --Irpen 20:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Since this is neither discussion of Irpen's or Piotrus edits, it is EOT for me. However, Irpen, if you continue to accuse my every second post on this board of being 'canvassing', I will seek WP:DR steps, as I consider such behaviour offensive to me and disruptive to other editors (who have little interest in reading discussions such as above).-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, I can't prevent you from seeking any steps you want. I've seen much of your wikilawyering at different Wikipedia space boards and I expect this to continue. I pointedly do not see any diffs showing my "personal attacks" in your last entry. --Irpen 20:17, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Battle of Wilno (1939)

Poll for renaming the article. Comments appreciated.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

WP:CANVASS again? Piotrus, did you see that one vote was closed early because of canvassing earlier today? --Irpen 19:15, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

As I've stated before, this board is intended for exactly these types of announcements. I myself have made announcements about proposed page moves in the past, without any problems. I shall say it again: this board is not the place to air your grievances against other editors. Appleseed (Talk) 19:17, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Internet troll squads OT case

Appleseed, please cool down. I do not come here just to air some grievances. I comment on specific issues, be it recruiting help to save the user from well-deserved sanctions at arbcom or to affect the ongoing poll by the mass influx of votes like it has happened here. Besides we likely see only a tip of the iceberg when watching this board. Judging from this coordinated entry of three of this board's members with no visible onwiki communication, more seems to be going on behind the curtains. -Irpen 19:29, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I see that the unfortunate email campaign doomed the Internet Troll Squads article. But that has nothing to do with announcing proposed page moves on this board. As for your thinly veiled accusations regarding "three of this board's members", I suggest you take your conspiracy theories somewhere else. Appleseed (Talk) 19:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I apploud you for analyzing the wiki communication of those three members. Surely, it's would never be considered stalking, merely a proper analysis by a concerned Wikipedian to ensure there is no cabal. And indeed, your finding that they did not communicate on Wiki yet took part in the same vote is certainly proof enough of the existence of some cabal! Unfortunatly, this is nothing new, Irpen: Polish cabal is already listed at Wikipedia:List of cabals... On the other hand, may I suggest you further analyze the particulary interesting correlation between common characteristics of editors voting to delete? Who knows, maybe you will uncover something equally interesting... -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:08, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, are you saying that these three votes of three wikifriends cast right one after another at that poll was a mere coincidence despite the poll's being run for several days and that no communication and calls to vote took place? If so, I will take your word that this was the case no matter how unlikely this seemed to me originally. --Irpen 20:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Why do I get the feeling you're not being sincere? There are many ways to find pages on WP. Relevant ones may include WP:AFD, Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Europe, Special:Contributions, etc. But if you insist this board is just the "tip of the iceberg", a mere front for the various nefarious activities of the Polish Cabal, who am I stop you? Appleseed (Talk) 20:34, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Appleseed, all it takes here is just say that the seemingly coordinated voting was a coincidence rather than a result of the off-wiki communication. I said already that I will take a user's word for it. Can you just say that no calls to vote were passed over the email or other off-wiki means? If you say yes, I will take it. --Irpen 20:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Irpen: I am not aware of any editor asking others to vote in any specific way ('keep' or 'delete') in this case. However I personally spread information about this vote (ex. here and here). I see nothing wrong with spreading information about any vote or discussion, as long as there is no pressure on the users informed to vote in a specific way. Spreading information is the best way to ensure a fair vote/discussion.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  21:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I keep getting this strange (perhaps wrongful) feeling that someone is trying to make a lawyerly Q&A game here. If I wanted to affect this vote, I would not need to ask a bunch of Lithuanian editors to vote in a "specific way". Just being selective in the set of users you notify is enough to ensure you get the right votes. My question was whether you (or anyone) have anything to do with those votes cast that way shortly one after another. I am not here to demand answers and you can ignore my questions but please do not play around with elaborated wording. My feeling is that some off-wiki communication took place in case of these three votes. I voiced my view. Now, you could just ignore my statement or state plainly that it is false (no off-wiki communication is responsible for this apparently coordinated set of votes). What I get instead is elaboratedly evasive answers. If you do not want to answer, do not answer but please spare me of the word games. It seems to me that the communication took place. So far, no one said that this was not the case in a straight way. --Irpen 21:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Irpen, it is you who is playing wikilawyering (or some other strange game). I told you clearly above that yes, I did spread information about this vote to other editors that might be interested. I gave you diffs to two groups (Russian editors and military editors) which I have notified. Out of curiosity: why don't you complain about me notifying the Russian editors and military history editors - certainly two large possible cabals with much interest in that vote? Certainly there is proof enough that many Russia-interested editors took part in that vote, and so there is much room to rant about canvassing in that regard, including off-wiki one, since I am not aware of any on-wiki notification about this AfD to Russian editors before my note, yet many took part in the debate before it... That said, I have no interest in speculating about who might have contacted who and how - as I wrote before, I believe information about such events should be spread as wide as possible, and if anybody spread info about this discussion, I don't care how or to whom he did so - more power to him, as long as he didn't force others to vote in a specific way. EOT for me.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  23:26, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, can you just say that you did not (or did) contact these two users off-wiki on this matter. Yes/no/"refuse to answer" are the only clear answers to the question that I can think of. You keep posting sets of off-topic opinions about what's proper and what's not. You can as well ignore the question which is the same as refuse to answer. You do not have to answer any question I am asking. But it is not constructive to respond with empty talk. If you don't feel like responding, then don't. --Irpen 23:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you first address the much more visible issue of high-number of Russia-interested editors dominating that vote? Or was it already addressed as an issue that only those editors should have the right to discuss?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  23:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus, we can address the other issue first, if you want (but noting your persistent avoidance to give a straight answer to a very simple question). Your diff about makes gives an out of context citations and the context is given by the following entry. The loss of the invaluable editor of this project remains a sour wound to Wikipedia to this day, while you might not be so unhappy about having your content opponent not around anymore. Anyway, this is OT, I agree. The simple question was whether you sent emails to those users could have been answered with just one word. --Irpen 00:25, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

"I see no reason to answer your simple questions in more detail" when you fail to address any part of my questions. Out of curiosity, 'the loss of which invaluable editor' do you mean? Surely not User:Ghirlandajo, who is quite active both in article and various discussion namespaces...-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  00:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

No, Piotrus. Ghirla is not really editing anymore. You know that better than anyone as you did a lot to make this happen. --Irpen 00:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah. So you accusee me of driving him away (proof?) and claim that a user with 20+ edits daily is 'not really editing'. You know, I'd very much like to drive away and thus raise the activity of editors like Halibutt ([3]) or Balcer ([4]) to that level. Alas, they seem to have been drivien away from this project by much more dedicated trolls than myself ;> Now, if you have nothing further to add to this other than bad faith speculations and attacks, I strongly suggest EOT.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  00:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

...have been driven away from this project by much more dedicated trolls than myself. Hmmm? Dr. Dan 14:09, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I asked Ghirla at his talk and he will respond if he choses to.

As for your "I see no reason to answer your simple questions in more detail", note that you did not answer it in any detail. So, did you send out emails or not? If you don't want to give a straight answer, please do not give any answer rather than make another evasive statement. In such case, simply not responding to this will do. --Irpen 02:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

No, Irpen, I didn't send any emails regarding this AfD vote. Satisfied, my dear inquisitor? Now, I wonder if I should ask Balcer and Halibutt whether you were one of the reasons they limited their involvement with Wiki... PS. When Ghirla left Wikipedia for a few weeks, his note didn't mention me....-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  03:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

"Polish clans"

Does the term "Polish clans" jar on anyone else? The expression was never used in Poland or in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. An individual was "of the [fill-in-the-blank] coat-of-arms," and many unrelated families might use that same coat-of-arms (Polish: "herb"). Why introduce a term ("Polish clans") that is completely alien to Polish history? logologist|Talk 08:03, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I would have to reserch this more, but I believe the issue is the Polish term 'ród' (plural, 'rody').-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  16:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

The Polish "ród" can be "family," "parentage," "descent," "kin," "stock," even (in reference to a primitive society) "tribe." In an extended sense of "family," "ród" can refer to the "human family," or "mankind" (as in the title of Stanisław Staszic's 1820 book, Ród ludzki). But "ród" is not "clan," and "clan" is an anatopism in relation to Polish history. logologist|Talk 00:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

So... should we move this to Polish noble family? Incidentaly this would fit our categories :) -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  00:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Is this supposed to be a list or an article? If it's the latter, then we already have szlachta. If it's the former, then we should name it List of Polish noble families and make it the main article of Category:Polish noble families. Appleseed (Talk) 02:12, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

While we're at it, something should be done about the article The Princely Houses of Poland. It looks like Gustavo has put a lot of work into it, but I'm not sure he's going about it the right way. Perhaps it should be "listified" into List of Polish aristocracy or something similar. Appleseed (Talk) 02:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

These are all excellent points. logologist|Talk 02:37, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

There is always my list of szlachta... :) -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  02:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I've seen this word be used synonymously with Polish tribes moreso than anything else, as in the tribes pre-900. LeszekB 14:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

We're talking about a later period. logologist|Talk 14:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Although feel free to expand Polish tribes, a stub I recently added, and which needs all the help it can get :) -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  16:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

How long is Polish border?

There seem to be two versions, both supported by quite reliable sources. Please comment at Talk:Borders of Poland.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  03:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

New reincarnation

A newly created account user Litwa (talk · contribs) besides a name that does not contributes to the healthy climate here has all the features of the same good old Ksenon/Reichenbach/Truthseeker. The passion to Radio Maryja, habitual stalking and other whatnots. The newborn started the activity from the stalking spree on the heels of M0RD00R (talk · contribs). May I ask that this community deals with the problematic user to save us all the effort of having to deal with it at different pages designed for such matters. Also, someone here not only has a button to block the stalker but can also nicely rollback these edits by a click of the button... --Irpen 06:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll give Litwa a warning, for now, about tag trolling. I see nothing meriting a rollback other than the Radio Maryja incident?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  16:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Culture of Poland

I wonder if we shouldn't reorganize the modern chronological part, that is sections after Young Poland which ends in 1918. Polish culture in the Interbellum is still a red link (anybody could write a few words? It is the last red link in that template...). I just created stub on Polish culture during World War II, which is probably OK, but then we have Socialist realism in Poland (which was meant to describe Polish culture during communist times, but I think socrealism was not the only trend during that era, particulary after 1950s) and Culture in modern Poland which actually describes communist times, too... Help? :) -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  04:38, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Polander

Is Polander a valid redirect to Poland? I checked the interwikis, and I don't think it's the name of Poland in another language (like some of the other redirects to that article). Appleseed (Talk) 17:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. n. 1. A native or inhabitant of Poland; a Pole. Webster's 1913 Dictionary (also [5], wiktionary) and genrally, if it is a hoax, it has spread pretty widely. All things considered, I'd redirect it to Poles. If you want to consider deletion, WP:RFD.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:50, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Good catch, I thought it might be something like that. I've changed the redirect so it points to Poles. Appleseed (Talk) 23:34, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Occupation of Poland (1939-1945) and History of Poland (1939-1945)

Please comment at Talk:Occupation_of_Poland_(1939-1945)#Fork_name.3F on whether Occupation of Poland (1939-1945) article (former Treatment of Polish citizens by the occupants) should be renamed back, split, merged, etc.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Attribution

There has been an extensive effort to combine Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research (together with much of Wikipedia:Reliable sources) into a new policy called Wikipedia:Attribution, and its FAQ, WP:ATTFAQ.

Recently, on Wikipedia talk:Attribution and on the Wiki-EN-l mailing list, Jimbo questioned whether the result had adequate consensus, and requested:

• "a broad community discussion on this issue", (now taking place at Wikipedia talk:Attribution/Community discussion), followed by
• "a poll to assess the feelings of the community as best we can, and then we can have a final certification of the results." (now being drafted at Wikipedia:Attribution/Poll)

You are invited to take part; the community discussion should be as broad as possible. If you wish to invite other experienced and intelligent editors, please use neutral language. This message, for example, is {{ATTCD}}. -- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  18:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Polish roulette

I think it's a joke, but some disagree: Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion#Polish_roulette_.E2.86.92_Russian_roulette.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  20:47, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Location map Poland

Powiem krótko - przeniosłem dziś na en.wiki szablon mapa lokalizacyjna z polskiej wiki. Efekt do zobaczenia w infoboxie hasła Warsaw. Tylko, że to jedyny infobox z dotychczas używanych w hasłach związanych z Polską, gdzie było to łatwo zaimplementować. Zdecydowanie Template:Infobox City bije na głowę Template:Infobox City Poland, gdzie nawet współrzędne są dodawane przez oddzielny szablon. Są plany zmasowanego dodania haseł polskich miejscowości - gmin wiejskich, miejskich, gmin-miejsko-wiejskich i miast, ale potrzebny dobry infobox. Ktoś jest w stanie pomóc w przeniesieniu polskich infoboxów warunkowych na en.wiki ?--Hiuppo 15:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

OK - what is special about this map? Looks quite plain to me...-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  16:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Poland

Please look at this short list and consider voting/commenting (and adding that page to your watchlist). Which articles are deleted from Wikipedia is quite important, but there is almost no input from our members on that issue.-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk}  17:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Newbie

I am interested in the Lemko minority group, and in the history of sixteenth century Poland, as it applies to this group. I also have an interest in the 20th century history of this area of southeast Poland.Pustelnik 13:24, 8 April 2007 (UTC)