Talk:Criss Angel Mindfreak

Reading Comprehension

"Contrary to publically insisting that his magic feats are possible as a result of meditation, some allege that Angel uses camera special effects, forced viewing angles and assistants acting as amazed spectators for the tv audience."

Sounds like someone edited the original, but didnt pay attention to what the original was saying. Someone who knows what it should be want to fix it? --ThreadbareSock 20:06, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Multiple images

Does the page really need two copies of the same image? Laundrypowder 02:47, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

• That's weird. The images are technically different files...I wasn't really paying attention to them when I started to edit the page or I would have dealt with that. Ah well, I'll deal with it now then. One of them has been deleted. Maybe we should try to find a screnshot from the show to replace it? (If we can do that without a copyright issue, mind.) [[User:Premeditated Chaos|User:Premeditated Chaos/Sig]] 19:18, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

• I've sent a simple request for any poster/image that we could use with a defined copyright status. Who knows if it'll bring anything but better than a loose screen-capture hopefully. Laundrypowder 20:52, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Possibly a joke?

About halfway down, someone copy and pasted the text of the first paragraph, changing "Mindfreak" to "Buttleak".

Oh. And they slaughtered the episode list.

Fixed on 1/05, reverted to the version directly before the vandalism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.80.232.33 (talk • contribs) 06:28, January 6, 2006 (UTC)

Tricks?

There is no mention of any attempts to discover the "how'd he do it"s on this page.

While its not required that we do this, I think its easy to say people do vioce their opinions, or have broken down how these stunts are performed.

I do know myself that a lot of people here must be staged, after all in one episode of Mindfreak he makes a woman disappear without re-materializing her, something all magicians seem to do unless its a staged actor.

I already have one figured out, in a part of episode "Vanish," he makes a cat disappear. This has been done before; the cat was actually pushed through a side portion of the box and then pulled off the table by one of the crew. The box (containing the cat) itself was then moved off camera by both the camera's movement and the stage hand, who pulls it back to himself behind the little coverage the table provides.

Another is where he tries to pull up a manhole cover. Notice the changing of the cameras? After the last "pull" of the same slide, which is actually soundbite over the plastic "handle," it rolls up. The real manhole is nw behind the camera.

Still trying to figure out the levitation though.

Camera tricks

User DannyDunn (talk/contribs) recently changed the content of the introductory paragraph entirely (diff). He also did a similar edit at Criss Angel (diff). He seems to be driving the idea that the tricks by Criss Angel are mere camera tricks with a sold-in audience members. The changes were made to the articles without any past discussion, which is why I'm creating this chapter in the discussion page in the hopes explanations will be added. --Bisqwit 02:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Some proof of camera tricks

Yes indeed Criss uses mostly camera tricks that are performed in front of audiences that are all in on it. His editing has become so sloppy you can even see the camera tricks exposed in his videos.

In this video you can see scratch marks on the pavement made by the manhole cover he removes. The camera cuts away from the manhole cover to show Criss, later when the camera pans down the scratch marks are no longer there because you are looking at a fake manhole cover. The real cover is a few feet off camera yet you are forced ( via forced camera perspective) to ONLY see the fake cover that he peels off the ground. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/176801/criss_angel_crawls_out_of_a_storm_drain/ If you were there in person you'd see how it really works.

Take a look at this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRR30Tll6wY&search=chris%20angel and you'll see a particpant running away from the camera with a stick. You will see him use the stick at 2:42 in the video and then he is seen running off camera in the background later. Why would anyone run from such a cool trick..shouldn't he be amazed like the rest of the crowd if they were seeing a real trick .Read all the comments posted for more details. This is one example of MANY things that are so ovious when you pay attention.

In the walking thru glass stunt he says to the camera man.. " Don't cut away..keep one continuous shot" but after the glass is examined the camera zooms up on his shoes as he unties them. The glass is moved then ..off camera while we are forced to look at his shoes. Everyone else there saw the switch yet they all act impressed. If we had been standing there we would have seen how it was really done.

Here is Criss himself explaining how one works. This trick was featured on MindFreak but only looked good from the cameras point of view as people on the street would all see how its done. http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1142851570/Chris_Angel_Reveals_His_Secrets

Here is yet another example... view this video ( listen closely to what he say to the girl) and then read the comments below. http://www.dumpalink.com/post/1127379217/Chris_Angel%5Cs_ButterFly_Trick then watch the video again. The proof is all there.

Look Here http://www.metacafe.com/watch/30413/chris_angel_on_fire/ and you'll notice many of the people in the crowd are in a different position when Criss reappears than they were when he vanished. ( much easier to spot on a video tape or DVD compared to web videos )The camera was cut and restarted after he changed costumes. The fire extriguishers were used to help cover the edit point. Again... ovious when you look close enough.

Its good viewing and lots of fun to watch but its not reality television as previous stated in the article. Its not even magic... its scripted fiction complete with editing, actors and special effects. DannyDunn

• Your argument about Criss's levitation and how it would only look good from the cameras point of view and how all people on the street would see how it is done, is completly wrong. The illusion is SUPPOSED to be viewed behind Criss's back. As long as he is able to control the crowd and watch his angles, there is no way the spectators will see how it is done. Plus, the camera is viewing it from the spectators point of view as well.

Sounds like you are not a magaican so you wouldnt know that there are illusions that only look good from certain angles. It also seems as if you think that real magicians have real magical powers and since criss angel doesnt have any of that, he uses camera trickery on all his illusions. --Red monkey 21:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

• All these are purely speculative, and cannot be proven one way or the other that he actually uses camera tricks to perform his stunts on the show, especially when countless other magicians who have had their tricks televised has used the same or similar tricks without being accused of using camera effects. For instance, David Blaine levitates in front of a full audience on the streets just like Criss (in effect, if not in technique), yet no one accuses him of making use of camera tricks to achieve the effect. What about Totally Hidden Extreme Magic? The magicians there perform many of the same or similar stunts as Criss, yet none of them were accused of using camera tricks to achieve them. Heck, one person from THEM, Cyril, actually mimicked Criss' 'Matrix Leap' effect on a Japanese television show (where he jumped 'into' an open suitcase held by one of his assistants), yet still no accusations of camera tricks. Besides, in a similar argument on the discussion board of Criss' own article, you state quite clearly that he is only using such tricks on his show, never extending that accusation to his LIVE shows (where you admitted that he was a competent magician in his own right). Unlike, say, a musician who lip-synchs, a magician like Criss spends most of his time on live shows, in front of a live audience night after night. ANY actual evidence of him cutting corners in his acts on TV would ultimately come back to bite him in the ass on his live shows, since no one who knew he faked most of his stunts on TV would believe that he wasn't doing the same in his live shows and, hence, his credibility as a magician all around would greatly diminish. Believe it or not, it's much more difficult to hide the fact that you're a faker as a magician than it is to hide the fact that you're a faker as a musician, since magicians require a lot more physical movement and interaction with their audience to be successful. Also, it's much more costly to 'fake' a magic trick than it is to fake a song; you need to pay the actors in the audience (which, considering the sheer amount of people in the audience in most of Criss' stunts, would take much more money than Criss would most likely afford to lose), rig the tricks so he could make use of the 'camera tricks' without being blatant about it (so as to keep his credibility), AND it assumes that Criss is in TOTAL control over his own show, including what and when and how to air what goes on in his shows (which, even as the Executive Producer, he CAN'T be; A&E - the people who actually does the airing - has a lot more say in what to cut out and what to leave in for content/time restraints/commercias/etc. than he does. He actually REGAINED the rights to the two episodes that never aired, even on the DVD sets, which tells you that A&E CAN and DOES override his say on how his show is run). Once again, a guy with a stick running away does not indicate in any fashion that he's a faker that cuts corners on his show (just a stick is a very poor replacement for a human hand, and CAN be spotted as such by a cursory inspection), nor does a slight change in position from the crowd mean anything, either (considering that he just lit himself on fire and FELL ON THE GROUND, it's not hard to imagine that people would be freaked out over what happened to him, and changed their position as a reflex reflecting that shock). As someone else said, a lot of the street magic he performs is so rediculously simple to perform, that it can seriously disappoint someone expecting a lot more from it. What you are doing is grasping at straws in a lame attempt to justify your conspiracy theory against Criss, when all your so-called 'evidence' can be easily debunked by a simple examination of the actual tape by a professional (or, at least, someone with a bit of knowledge about splicing together and editing film). Plus, it makes no logical sense that he would cut corners on his own show, when he is perfectly capable of performing those same stunts on his live show, sans trickery. Why half-ass something when you are clearly capable of doing it all the way? I'm sorry, but while I respect your opinion that Criss Angel sucks, your accusations of him are baseless and are made invalid by virtue of your presenting of such accusations as fact. Such actions on your part are considered confirmation bias (where you attempt to fit in innocuous and superficial events in the show as 'proof' that he's a faker on-air), as well as hasty generalization (using such a small amount of 'proof' of his cheating to prove that he cheats on ALL of his stunts), and spurrious relationship (since you are apparently claiming that none of his stunts are possible on TV without SOME kind of trickery or unprofessionalism, ie "He can't make a drawing turn into a butterfly unless he used an edit and a paid actor), all of which are logical fallacies and, hence, make your argument completely invalid, regardless if you are correct or not. In other words, they're simply your own opinions, and not fact; shut up, stop grasping at straws, and don't spread such stupid rumors unless you have some actual, verifiable proof to back it up, alright? SynjoDeonecros 07:00, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

• In this video http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1155290487/Criss_Angel_Bike_Trick_ you can see him vanish a bike. Please note that Criss once again says to the people... " we have never met right?" and then he vanishes the bike. Look closely and you'll not only see the camera edit where the bike is switched with a wooden frame ( or something stiff to resemble the bike handlebars ) but you'll also see the cloth remain stiff ( because it had the framework still in it ) when he removes it from the sidewalk and sets it aside. Can you seriously believe that these people standing right there did not see the bike removed and the fake handle bars inserted? They are plants just like most other audience members on Mindfreak. BTW... Blaine was also accused of camera tricks... here is an explanation of his levitating with both feet off the ground.... CAMERA TRICK!!!! just like Angel http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1953592714984673375&q=levitation+secrets DannyDunn

• • Here is a popular spoof of Mindfreak and its camera tricks. http://www.shinyfire.com/feats/angel/angel.html When its a regular person performing its so easy to recognise the fake response and camera tricks but when its a network televison show people prefer to believe its all real for some reason. Can any of Criss's defenders prove that there ARE camera tricks used in this spoof? Prove.. not speculate.... Of course not... it's obvious but there is no proof other than raw footage....just like in Mindfreak. DannyDunn

Y'know what? You can dislike Criss all you want. But don't try and shove your opinions down the throats of his fans. Seriously, get a life. And use actual evidence to support your damn theories.

• • OK... You want some "actual" evidence.. here is proof... ( although I suspect you will come up with some denial theory ) In this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thc2Cni3Ync you will see Criss talking to a couple that he pretends to have met for the FIRST time. He takes their wedding rings and links them together. Isn't it a coincidence that the groom is wearing a himber ring... a trick linking ring known to just about every magician . You will see a good shot in the video of the ring and then you can visit this site http://www.thecentertear.com/?nd=full&key=1999 and see the himber ring ( wedding band style in gold ) for sale. The point being that the bride and groom are planted participants/actors just like many many others on MindFreak. " Never met you before?" Yeah right!!!! DannyDunn

Whoop-dee-doo. He did a standard stage trick.

"Many, many others", eh? Care to explain where he's getting all these "paid/planted actors and assistants"? And, here's a good question: how come you never seem to raise these theories about anyone but Criss? I assume you're one of those David Blaine fans who hate Criss beyond all reason just because he exists.

How about you perform some magic and disappear?

• • I'm a Blaine Fan??? Now who is shoving opinions around? To answer your question... I don't discuss Blaine here because this is the Mindfreak page...not the Blaine page. Where does he get the paid actors??? ... the same place as anyone else does. It's not difficult to do. What a silly question. If you can't take the proof get out of the Mindfreak page. DannyDunn

I never once flat-out said you were a Blaine fan, and I certainly didn't shove the idea. I assumed you were, because you act like one. {I also noticed that, apparently, you haven't said a word on the David Blaine page. Kinda leads one to believe you're another pro-Blaine/anti-Criss person.}

How about you leave? You're the one shoving your damn anti-Criss opinions {which no Criss fan here is buying, BTW} down everyone's throats. Here's an idea: if you hate Criss so much, don't watch his damn show, don't harrass his fans, just don't have anything to do with him. If I don't like something, I just don't involve myself in it. You should do the same. Simple solution.

Often?

"Tesla Strike: People who are struck by lightning often show increased memory and mental capabilities."

Is it acceptable to consider the extremely rare "often"? Most people struck by lightning are messed up badly. 66.57.225.195 12:01, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

See WP:CONTEXT. The overlinking on this page needs to be cleaned up. It was done by a single user but since there have been edits since that time it needs to be done by hand. There are a lot of pages to clean up because of what this one person did, and I will try to get to them in turn, but if someone interested in this page can get started that would be good. Examples of inappropriate links are all the dates in the episode list, basic words like equipment, camera, past, handcuff, volunteer, etc. Try only to keep words that provide the necessary context. --Crossmr 06:46, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

• I did some work on this matter. --Bisqwit 02:33, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

POV

Okay, so in the article is says "A major part of the show is the fact that Criss uses computer technology and camera edits/effects in his magic. In addition to camera tricks the use of assistants acting as amazed spectators has created controversy among fellow magicians while others consider it part of modern magic on television". Although it says the the statement needs to be cited, I feels it was put by some Criss hater and figure some other Wikipedians do,too.--Happycat93 03:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)Happycat93

See: Boundaries and the Impossible, Criss Angel discussion page. I like him, so does master conjuror James Randi 25 Jul 06 User:Kazuba

Cameras

Why exactly can't they have one single camera from one angle recording his whole act? They always have to switch camera angles or go to the audience or something. Want to know why? Because it's all fake and the audience is fake. Has anyone here actually seen this guy CLOSE UP doing his stuff? No. Thank you.

• David Blaine, David Copperfield even Cyril uses multiple cameras to get audience reaction. Just because it is not shot using only one camera does not mean everything is fake.
  • Yes it does
    • No it doesen't
      • YES IT DOES !!!!
        • No it doesn't
          • Yes. It. Does.
            • No it doesn't
              • Yes... it... does!!!
                • No it doesn't
                  • YES IT DOES!!!!!!
                    • Yes it does
                      • No it doesn't!!! Aw damnit.

What, do you think the louder and more frequently you say it, the smarter you look, or the more correct you are? (unsigned comment)

That's WP at its best, right there. :-) --76.212.165.125 06:11, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Parity

It is not at all clear to me why there are so many calls for "reveals" of Criss Angel's illusions, whereas there are virtually none on the page for David Blaine. It would appear that, for reasons I can't identify, this page is much more critical than Blaine's.

• I don't think that any magicians secrets should be exposed to the public but Angel is not performing magic. He is attempting to pass off camera tricks and special effects as performance of magicians skills. We might as well credit Superman for his great levitations in Superman Returns as well if we are going to be amazed at Angels floating from building to building. All we are doing is calling it what it is... camera tricks. You don't see anyone exposing Angels effects that are really slight of hand ( he does several nice effects the old fashioned way... he performs them with skills. ) We just don't want him passing off " Spielburg" work as a magic trick anymore. DannyDunn

• • I respect your opinion about the reveals, But, I feel its within guidelines of wikipedia. You can have the reveals and still be entertained. Thats why there is "Spoiler" notices. Also many young inspired magicians can benefit from this. David blaine should have his reveals also, I suspect if when his show is on again, you will see it for him just as much as Criss. But for now, its not so much. Otherjohn 19:16, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Criss Angel really teaches us one thing: Do not believe everything you see on videos. He illustrates this point by doing totally ridiculous things. What is he going to do next? Grow a pair of breasts on his chest in Season 3(easy editing job)? Good point on the Superman. I think you also can go watch Charm, Smallville , Matrix, Final Fantasy. Just label it as magic, but these cartoons are definitely not the kind done by Houdini and others.

I'm an ex-Amateur magician, and I have fun looking at tricks like the one Criss Angel does and working out the mechanics of them. They are well executed, and a lot of fun for the viewing audience. I have no interest in spoiling things for the viewing audience, but I do feel performers should be the clahonest with ims they make regarding video edits (or lack thereof), etc. in their work. In the case of Angel's 'walking through glass' illusion, there is no question in my mind that the trick was pulled off with video editing. Nothing wrong with that, unless the whole hallmark of your performances is that you >don't< used .video editing I have no respect for a performer their audithat is ber 2006 (UTC)dishonest with ence in this fashion.--Wee Charlie 19:45, 1 Decem

I think people need to learn the difference between camera tricks and just normal tricks. Believe it or not, all magic is fake, the art form itself is tricking people through misdirection to make them believe that the impossible can happen. Of course he can't fly from one building to another, there was probably some sort of system holding him up just like when David Copperfield flies around. Just because there is an elaborate trick involved doesn't mean that there needed to be cutting done afterwards. Maybe if you stopped excepting Criss to be God, and just enjoyed his performance things would be much better. I wouldn't even care if he actually used camera editing, because he's a performer, their job is to entertain, and he certainly does that.

        ======FAKE====

.................^ .................| alll i gotta say | .................|

Major Cleanup.

I just spent a few minutes and did some major cleanup on this article. The entire thing sounded like it was copied directly from the A&E show page. It was all POV/unsourced/original research and basically a Advert. I cleaned it up, and it looks fine now. If any can find some NPOV and sourced infomation, then go ahead and add it. dposse 02:35, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

"New meaning to the world of magic"?

Geez. I edited it out a while ago and it got re-inserted on the same day. This is an encyclopedia.

Please guys/gals: help me keep this text removed. P.S.: And it was edited out yet again. Please help??