Planet 22

just found out about "Math Rock" today when I was playing my band, Planet 22, for a freind. See for yourself: http://www.geocities.com/rjs121576/planet22.html

the times are: "Mr. Happy" : starts with 4/4 but starts dropping in measures of 10/4. The middle part is 6/8 and then back to 4/4. In part 2 the times go from 10/4 to 11/4 a few times followed by a middle part where the drums, keyboards, and sax play 11/4, while the bass(me) and guitar play 11/4 for a 110 beat polyrythym.

"Muffin jugs" : A funk song, the bridges have measures of 5/4 and 3/4 thrown in. The middle part is all 5/4 Check out the bass knob volume fade ins

"Mushrooms on the Wall pt. 2" : College age guys, our friend threw a mushroom from his pizza on the wall and it stayed stuck there for weeks, yuck! This song is based on the circle of fifths, starting in G#. The bridge or "B" part alternates between major and minor. The time slips in the third bridge followed by 5/4, and 3/4, resolving at the end to 4/4.

"Mushrooms on the wall pt. 1" : this one starts with 8 beats and subtracts a beat each measure. the "B" part is a Cmajor 6/8 theme I often use, it can be played against most music in C including Beethoven 9-4. The middle part of this song goes from 4/4 to 4/4>3/4>4/4>3/4 to 3/4 to 6/8 to 5/4

"Mushrooms on the wall pt. 3+4" : the first part are 20 beat cycles where every other 20 beats the instruaments alternate between 4 5/4's, 5 4/4's, or 6 3/4's+ 1 2/4 the final section starts in 4/4 where the guitar and bass remain, after a few turns the drums and sax start dropping beats, so each time through they are synchopated in a different way until on the 4th shift they are back in time with the bass and guitar. Check out the bass knob volume fade ins.

skip some other songs down to "take jack" for a good 5/4 jam

Take Care... Joe www.degicank.com

Adding Artists

I know these are more on the popular side of things, but wouldn't Tool and Meshuggah qualify as Math Rock?

Tool has some songs that are in mixed meters but not exactly in the same way or extent as other groups. And I don't think that all their songs are in unusual meters. They don't identify as "math rock" as far as I know. They're more of a melodic metal band with some rhythmic complexity. Maybe some other math rock aficionados reading this could weigh in on this one. Although Meshuggah does use a lot of complex meters, they identify more with "tech metal" than "math rock," don't they? Badagnani 19:24, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

no. in the context of what is "math rock" and the genre's history and place in independent music history, no. tool and meshuggah are definitely not math rock. shellac is a good example, and bands surrounding shellac. but not bands surrounding and related to marilyn manson. if you read any zines from about 94-98, you'll find math-rock bands well-featured and documented in this time period. bands like- lynx, table, shellac, oxes, etc. this list has really gone too far and needs an overhaul. we should move to thoroughly alphabetize this and list ones that drive home the point of what math rock was and is, and not just a free-for-all. because then shit like "mars volta" starts popping up on this list... 130.85.80.104

proposed name change

I would like to propse a name change to "Math rock artists" for the sake of consistancy with other music lists. 192.103.41.201 05:38, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure all other similar lists are titled like that? Because I don't know of any math rock "artists"; most are bands. Otherwise, the change seems fine if all links are fixed. Badagnani 05:40, 28 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

your own band

please stop adding it to lists and the page. and your friends' bands too. it's annoying. just because you have one song that has one part in 5/4 doesn't make your band math rock. try "progressive screamo"

I just listened to the samples on the We Versus the Shark page and while the band plays for long stretches in 4/4 there are a lot of sections in 7/4 and other odd meters. So I'd say they're a "1/2-math band." Seriously, though, other hardcore math bands do have 4/4 sections in their songs. Badagnani 02:50, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

true. but doesn't provide a valid example of math rock. the music is not even mathmatetical in aesthetic, hence why the genre was tagged as such in the first place. on the same token, i wouldn't claim a band like unwound is math rock or that foo fighters are math rock just because of "enough space" and "times like these." you could even argue that cherubs were a math rock band, but thats off base too. odd timings, yes, but you wouldnt think of labeling them math rock.

im not sure what you mean by "hardcore math bands" but yeah, some bands do have the 4/4 sections, but they actually sound mechanical and have a taut mathematical sound to them. for example, some stretches in bellini songs. i feel my own band is mathy in sound, but i wouldnt think of adding them to any of these pages on the basis of possible derision and its not necessary or poignant in describing the sound or dead genre.

Are these comments being written by different people? This is getting confusing. To answer your question, I think the best example of real "math rock" (to me) would be Craw (or, more recently, Keelhaul, who share a drummer with Craw). Crushingly heavy and so damn complex (due to constantly changing times) you couldn't figure it out if you tried. I agree with what you say about Unwound. Even Tortoise, who have songs in 7 or whatever, are so obvious about it ("hey, look, I'm playing in 7!") but they don't seem to have internalized it the way Craw has done. Many of the more recent bands have a "lighter" sound that is more "indie rock" based, using clean guitar sounds, etc., and are much less metal-influenced. I guess it's a just a sign of the times, and who's driving the music...teenage and 20-something nerdy bloggers instead of blue collar kids. Badagnani 05:44, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

On time signatures

It's important to note that math rock isn't defined by odd meters; it is defined by changes in meter. For example, playing a jazz waltz isn't math style. The appeal of well-executed math rock, to me, at least, is the elegant fusion of these different meters. AdamSap 18:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would tend to agree with this; it's a very good point. Your definition would thus exclude a lot of the softer Chicago/Louisville bands that have been grouped under the heading, which will, for example, play a whole song in 7/8 with clean guitars. It's quite different from something by Craw or Don Caballero, though these bands also on occasion play an entire song in 5/8 or 13/8. Badagnani 19:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bands to Remove(?)

I don't see how !Forward Russia! are math rock in any way. The fact that their songs are just numbers is completely irrelevant surely? I don't think they should be included in this list.

Good call. Some people just don't know what they're talking about and in this case you're correct that they definitely should never have been added. However, it's hard for everyone to know every band (especially very obscure ones), so we often trust editors to add bands whose style matches what is described in the article. I just watched some of their videos on YouTube and it is all 4/4 (though there are occasionally some syncopations in the drums, within that 4/4 beat. They're going now, never to return to this article. If you find any others you think shouldn't be here either, we'll listen and give our verdict. Badagnani 00:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just watched the videos on YouTube again and found one song in 7/4, with the intro to another song in 3/4. Otherwise, it's still all 4/4. This doesn't meet the definition and the band is being removed -- again. Badagnani 01:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's a whole heap of post-rock bands that don't really classify (especially Explosions in the Sky) and i have no idea why Mudvayne is in there. Just because something uses alternate meters doesn't mean its math rock, its a pretty specific group of bands.. Mwhale 01:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tool

Someone added Tool again? Please see earlier discussion and re-evaluate. Badagnani 06:29, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Occasional Math Rock bands?

I added Uphollow, which has two Math Rock albums and two predominately non-Math Rock albums. Do they qualify, or should they be removed?--GulCratt 09:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Armored Bear

Armored Bear removed--the one song on their MySpace page is slow and in 4/4. Badagnani 18:00, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Creta Bourzia

Creta Bourzia removed--all 4 songs on their MySpace page are in 4/4 throughout. Badagnani 18:21, 20 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]