Talk:Galactus

The Role/Importance of Galactus

I've found a lot of good source material dealing with the importance of Galactus and the role of balance he plays in the Marvel Universe.

I'd like to know what everyone thinks of having a dedicated section detailing Galactus' part in the universal order. As the article stands now, there are various scattered, but repeated, references to his importance in several different sections.

I think the article could be improved by having an area that explains cleary what exactly makes Galactus a singular, unique entity in all of the Marvel Universe and exactly why he is of such great importance.

I would propose to include information such as:

-Information already present in the article, i.e. third-force in the universe, one of the 5 essential entities, the only power that keeps Abraxas in check, the cosmic tribunal in which Eternity appears.

I would also inlcude information detailing

-Living Tribunal explaining his three faces of representation, one of which is Galactus (Equity) -Statement by some abstract character (forget which one, will look up source material) speculatng that Galactus may be even more important than Eternity because he is the only being to have ties to the previous reality, the contemporary reality, and the next reality simultaneously, something which no other character shares.

-misc other items.

I feel the need for a dedicated section because Galactus has such a specific, defined, and important role which is not replicated anywhere in any character throughout all of Marvel's characters. This is in contrast to the abstracts (Death, Eternity, etc.), who by their mere existence fulfill their roles in the universal order. Mobb One 18:59, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

• I think the problem with trying to define his role is that it is so ambiguous. Byrne seemed to establish that Galactus' role was to weed the universe, to test planets, and made a vague connection between Galactus, Death, and Eternity by naming them each corners to a "great triangle which is the universe." Steve Englehart fleshed out the Galactus/Eternity/Death relationship by establishing Galactus as the "third force of the universe" and by revealing that he provides balance between them. The problem is that Englehart never portrayed Galactus as a universal tester/weeder, but strictly as a balancing force between Eternity and Death. He also established that Galactus' existence was necessary for universal survival. For all we know Galactus MAY fulfill his role just by existing like the full-abstracts. The whole Abraxas-thing throws even more onto Galactus' plate, an interesting development from Abraxas Saga is that keeping Abraxas improsined may be the reason Galactus suffers from his hunger. TheBalance 20:58, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Superman?

How can Superman be one of Galactus's heralds? Superman is a DC Comics hero, Galactus is from the Marvel Comics.

Hello is anyone still there?

Anon

It's from the Fantastic Four-Superman crossover. In it Galactus takes Superman as his Herald and grants him the Power Cosmic. The empowered Superman gains a glossy, metallic, golden skin (think The Runner) and refers to himself as "Kyrptonian". TheBalance 15:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh I see. I've never read that one. Thank you anyway.

Anon

Merge from Power Cosmic

• Support It's basically nothing more than a fork from the Powers and abilities section of this article, with a mention of the Heralds thrown in. Nothing that can't be covered here and in the Heralds articles (and should be). CovenantD 04:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
• Merge - if Galactus is the sole source of the Power Cosmic, it's better as part of this article. If that changes as a result of new plot elements from Annihilation (due to Tenebrous and Aegis...) we can always revisit this, but for now it's not justified. --Mrph 10:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
• Wait I agree with merging it, but would imagine it wait until Annihilation: Heralds of Galactus #2 is released. We'll be able to gleam more information regarding Tenebrous and Aegis in this issue, and hopefully find more information on their background and whether they wield the Power Cosmic or not. If they do wield it, then I would vote for a separate article as that indicates Galactus is not the primary source, as we have all originally thought.Mobb One 19:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
• Support If the Power COsmic had more detail then i would say keep, but due to lack of info, merge.Phoenix741 14:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose I agree the Power Cosmic article needs to be expanded on, but other non-Galactus folks wield the Power Cosmic. It should have its own article. MightyAtom 00:44, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The creation of the character of Galactus

I've seen comic character entries that wikipedia has deemed to be excellent (storm, batman, superman), and the one thing they all have in common is an extensive publication history that chronicles the actual creation of the character by the storytellers.

I've noticed that the Galactus entry sorely lacks this. One might lead to question why does the Galactus entry need such treatment, I'll respond by saying that out of all the characters created in comics, very few have been created under the supervision of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, both of whom we can safely call two of the "founding fathers" if you will, of the comic book as we know it today. Now of those few characters created by both, it is widely regarded that the storyline that ran from Fantastic Four #48-50 is perhaps the greatest collaboration between the two creators. Those who have the knowledge can immediately recognize that those issues introduced Galactus and the Silver Surfer into the comics world.

I've found many sources on the web, as well as a Jack Kirby interview, expounding a bit more on the actual character of Galactus, and exactly how revolutionary he was when he was introduced. The whole story of "The Coming of Galactus" and the two issues following have a strongly profound Face of God/Fallen Angel mythos attached to it, which, according to the interviews, had never, ever been done in comics previous to that point. I know there are potentially semi-controversial religious undertones in that, but the fact is primary sources/interviews elaborate on this idea, and confirm it as well.

The article as it stands now contains 1 phrase to capture this entire idea. I don't think that's sufficient. If we're going to look at the standards for a standout entry, as mentioned above for Storm, Batman, Superman, the Watchmen, Captain Marvel (DC), I feel the Galactus article must discuss in some respectable depth the ideas that Stan Lee, but primarily Jack Kirby, had in mind when creating Galactus. This material would elevate the article as it is now to one that is truly more encyclopedic and distinct from many of the more "fan-oriented" entries, as Asgardian likes to label them. Mobb One 05:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed that a Publication section is sorely needed here. If you'd like to write up the background info (having already done the research) I'll help by pulling out the publication info from the fiction bio sections. CovenantD 00:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

A slight tidy-up (not a removal). Some of the introductory information shuffled down to where appropriate to conform with Wikipedia opening statements. Noticed that about three times the same thing was just being said in different ways so performed a slight graft so that it reads a tad better and each point naturally flows to the next. A slight cull on two images that have been placed next to better ones and look like clutter. Perhaps the Gah Lak Tus image could be popped in further down on the left if wanting another one? Much better than a staid shot of Galactus without his helmet. That said, this article has really come along. Nice to see a few other folk actually researching and writing as opposed to just editing. Great use of new images. Looking very sharp.

Asgardian 11:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

IQ and Powers

The article says that Galactus is the most intelligent and powerful being in the universe but aren't the five other members of his species as powerful and smart as he is? Furthermore it also says that Mr Fantastic is possibly the most brilliant mind on Earth but isn't Doctor Doom every bit as smart as him? Just something worth noting.

Anpn

Makasoff?

Galactus Makasoff first appeared in a classic Fantastic Four storyline in which...

Where is this coming from? Dlong 17:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Death in the Silver Surfer third volume

Galactus apparently dies in the 109th issue of the third volume of the Silver Surfer. He dies when containing the power of the ultimate nullifier which is triggered by his herald Morg when attempting to defeat Tyrant, his sentient creation. I'm sure he comes back alive later but this fact should be included in the history but I do not know where to include it. Zuracech lordum 21:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Galactus and his Relationship to the In-Betweener

I don't know if the omission was a deliberate action or if it was just due to the addendum being lost in multiple Page Edits (some sort of Edit War seems to be going on at the present time), but I earlier provided a direct Reference -namely, Silver Surfer Volume 3, Issue #10, -wherein it is revealed that the In-Betweener is the metaphysical counterpart to Galactus.

Unless you can find a reference directly contradicting my source that I cited, I kindly ask you to leave the addendum in.

I'm placing the In-Betweener/Galactus blurb (alonmg with its attendant reference) back into the Article.

Thanos777 02:59, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

There was some debate over this topic between Galactus and In-Betweener in SS#10. Nothing was ever established. IIRC, The In-Betweener claimed the reason he couldn't summon Galactus' polar opposite was because he was Galactus' opposite -- I believe Galactus disputed the In-Betweener's claim. TheBalance 14:58, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply: I believe that it is as you have said; and I'll now give thought to making my earlier, declarative Statement into a more speculative/'strongly implied' one.

And I mis-typed the proper reference (which I will go and correct now): it wasn't SS-V3-#10, it was SS-V3-#18.....Thanos777 21:32, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Knock it off

Knock the edit war off. Seriously. It's getting annoying. Dlong 04:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you sit back, grab a beer and relax. Whenever Asgardian makes an appearance a revert war usually ensues. Asgardian can be also be found engaged in childish, prolonged revert wars on the Thanos and Celestial pages, among many, many others. I suggest you do a search on Asgardian. TheBalance 14:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I suggest you try less assumption and more meaningful dialogue. The latter - and any real work on many of these articles - appear to be lacking.

Asgardian 08:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Let's be realistic, you are and have been involved in revert wars on numerous entries time and time again. Your stubborness, unwillingness to compromise and belief that the goal of an encylopedic entry is brevity leads to perpetual revert wars. All one has to do is look at your user talk page history - the constant here is you. TheBalance 14:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

If you wish to be realistic, I suggest you first look at your own behaviour. You and your offsider are very quick to accuse...but do little to discuss.

Asgardian 08:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Correction - I no longer bother compromising with or initiating talks with you. It's a well beaten path that leads nowhere. TheBalance 14:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Heaven knows I have had my differences with Asgardian, but his intro and general edits do seem to best follow the Comics Project editorial guidelines and exemplar.

As for the brevity issue: Generally speaking the fewer and more precise words needed to describe something, the better. Lots of phrases can be streamlined ("At a later point in time John Doe began to..." can be simply "Later, John Doe began to...") and the passive voice changed to active voice ("It was suggested by Joe Quesada that Galactus was..." is better as "Joe Quesada suggested Galactus was...").

I'm sure reasonable minds can come together. --Tenebrae 09:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The main problem I have with Asgardian's edits, is that he removes too much, and makes the article just look incomplete. -- DCincarnate

We can come up with a middle ground. What I'd like to suggest is to first conform the article to the edit-guidelines/exemplar format. Maybe Asgardian could do that. Then you and TheBalance can each add a paragraph or a sentence to that, without changing the format. Then the three (or more?) of you can discuss the pros and cons of that paragraph or sentence and refine it. Then repeat as necessary.

It's a bit laborious, but once the article's in shape, then it'll always be in shape, and it'll just be a matter of maintenance. I'm not an admin, but in the interest of harmony, I'd be glad to help peer-mediate if you need me. What does everybody say? --Tenebrae 16:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you Tenebrae. Common sense has prevailed. I've been asking 2-3 parties for some time to study the changes (eg. correct Wikipedia introduction, present tense, no POV) before hitting revert. If they looked they would see 95% of the article is STILL THERE. It's very close to "A" standard, but still needs minor work. A little more discussion and consideration would be appreciated, especially for those us that actually spend hours researching and writing these things. It's not as easy as it looks!

Asgardian.

I see that the article has been locked due to constant revisions. Well in any case...we wouldn't be in this position to continually improve the article if asgardian had not had the original initiative to clean it up and reference it, so let's acknowledge that.

That being said, it's all fine having a format done and agreed to, but in terms of brevity and the like....yes it is much better to be more succinct with terminology, but at the same time we shouldn't sacrifice delivery and tone. In this regard a middle-ground must be met.

Now in terms of content. Above all the publication history needs to be expounded. In particular the issue I raised above (The creation of the character of Galactus) concerning the actual creation of the Galactus character by lee and kirby, which covenantD has also agreed is necessary. Now I've already done most of the research on that, and have a draft of a new introduction paragraph incorporating that material, but as it is I still want to work on it. However I have a titanic, once-in-a-year exam approaching the first week of june, and all my time outside of work is devoted to that. If someone would care to begin the publication history by dealing with, specifically, the "Galactus Trilogy," Kirby's inspirations/though processes, etc. that would really begin to separate this article from the rest of the comic book character entries. Mobb One 01:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Hear, hear. The "Publication history" section is wholly inadequate as it stands. Galactus has made several key appearances throughout the years not only in Fantastic Four but in Thor, The Silver Surfer, Iron Man, ROM Infinity Gauntlet and many more. A "road map" through these is needed. --Tenebrae 03:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Hooray...progress. I'm happy to expand on a PH as that is easily done. It just has to be objective with no POV and sourced which is what my revisions have tried to achieve. Having had another look at the two versions, I'm still a little miffed that a certain trio never took the time to study the changes, which only try to enforce some consistency throughout the article and stop that POV and image overkill which seems to creep in on cosmic characters that have a strong following.

Onward.

Asgardian 08:25, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

This is nice, hearing people come together. One quick suggestion: Probably it might be helpful to keep unmentioned those things that miff. No good comes of that in discussions like these; trust me. Unquestionably, though, as Asgardian says, POV has to be removed.

Mobb One, why not post your PH draft here, and let us fellow eds take a crack at polishing? -- Tenebrae 13:27, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Fairly Oddparents

In The Fairly Oddparents, I just wanted to add that Timmy's godparents appear as parodies of the Silver Surfer with skateboards instead of his surfboard. Should this be in the Silver Surfer article or can it be noted here?Hoopesk2 22:52, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Silver Surfer's. Still, I don't know if it's worth adding. --Soetermans 10:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

yes but also Timmy appear as Galactimus, a clear parody of galactus in the name,apparence and beavour(he proclam to eat the planet

Additions, Revisions, Edits, and Modifications

Alright guys, I encourage all the people who have contributed to this article lately (you know who you are) to get together here and start brainstorming about how to improve this article.

As per the discussion topic above, I'll post a preliminary draft of a new intro and publication history that details the actual circumstances and background concerning the creation of the character.

I've just read that Galactus may take the form of a storm cloud in the new FF movie. Many fans are extremely irate, some don't even know who Galactus is. From what i've seen, many people are turning to wikipedia for a complete learning of what and who Galactus really is. This motivates me to really see this article done well and I think we should use this opportunity to illustrate that wikipedia can be the one stop source of information.

I'll be posting my draft here soon.

Mobb One 17:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's important to mention the 'cosmic cloud' Galactus in the article. Perhaps when unlocked, it can be put in. 60.241.198.190 13:11, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Here is a preliminary draft of the Galactus intro and opening paragraph of the publication history. I don't have the specific references with me on hand right now, but as you can see i've inserted them and will specify them sometime later this week.

-Introduction-

Galactus is a fictional character, a cosmic entity who appears in publications of Marvel Comics, occasionally appearing as an adversary of the Fantastic Four or Silver Surfer. Sometimes called the Devourer of Worlds or Ravager of Planets, Galactus is an enormously powerful being who must “feed” on the energy of planets to survive.

Galactus was created by artist Jack Kirby and writer Stan Lee, first appearing in in the landmark Fantastic Four #48. Kirby envisioned Galactus' character to be conceptually equivalent to God, making Galactus one of the first comic-book characters conceived in this mold. (citation, television interview with Jack Kirby)Depicted as a being existing since the beginning of the current Marvel-616 universe, Galactus has consumed countless planets, resulting in the elimination of entire extra-terrestrial civilizations. As one of the most powerful and terrifying characters ever created by the publisher, Galactus has become more developed in recent decades, coming to embody a force of cosmic nature whose existence is necessary for the continuation of the universe. Writers have explored topics involving morality, philosophy, and religion with stories concerning the necessity of Galactus in the universal order , coupled with the required destruction of entire inhabited worlds for his survival.

-Publication History-

"The Galactus Trilogy"

Writer Stan Lee and artist/co-writer Jack Kirby first introduced Galactus —as well as the Silver Surfer— in the landmark Fantastic Four #48, published in 1966. A classic story in which Galactus' then-herald, the Silver Surfer, located Earth for destruction, issue #48 was titled "The Coming of Galactus." It was the first of a three-part story, with "If this Be Doomsday!" and "The Startling Saga of the Silver Surfer" being parts 2 and 3, featured in Fantastic Four #49 and #50, respectively. The "Galactus Trilogy," as the three issues have become collectively called, is considered by many to be the finest work of Kirby and Lee collaborating together, and has been called "one of the most historically significant moments in Marvel's Silver Age." (citation, The Jack Kirby Collector)

In a 1989 interview, Kirby explained that the inspiration for Galactus was drawn from the Bible. (citation).

I will add more later, as the rest of it is on another computer. --Mobb One 17:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Hooray! We are underway. I'll have a good look later.

Asgardian 00:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

after my exam is over next week i'll get back to this. i'd like a real nice article before the ff movie comes out....and people start questioning who/what galactus is.

Mobb One 04:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC) 04:35, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Can - Monster Movie

Anybody wish to add the reference to Can's album Monster Movie which has a picture of Galacctus on the cover and is a very influential LP? 82.29.114.179 18:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer

I recently read the novelization of the film and Galactus appears as a kind of cosmic storm/vortex but he isn't shown in his humanoid form. He's also called the Gah Lak Tus, like the Ultimate Marvel version of Galactus. It should be noted under the other media secion. While it's not the film, it's based on the film's script.Odin's Beard 17:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Dial "M" for Monkey

{{Editprotected}}

Since I can't directly edit the page, I'll say it here... The enemy that Monkey fights in the episode of Dial "M" for Monkey is named "Barbequor". More information on the specific episode can be found here. ~ Joseph Collins (U)(T)(C) 02:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Protection has been reduced. Cheers. --MZMcBride 19:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Request to add citation

{{Editprotected}} I'd like to add this reference to the last quote (from Tim Story) in the Movies section. The code would be:

Story, Tim (2007-03-02). "Wow - the clock is ticking..." Retrieved 2007-05-21. {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help); Check date values in: |accessdate= and |date= (help)

Thanks. [edit: the URL is currently blacklisted, b/c of the root domain. So, for now, I've put {}'s around the "blog" portion of the URL until it is whitelisted (assuming my request for it to be whitelisted is approved).]

Earthsound 13:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Protection has been reduced. Cheers. --MZMcBride 19:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, MZMcBride. I will add the cite when the URL is whitelisted. Earthsound 17:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

I found a workaround to the blacklist, so I didn't have to wait for the whitelisting as I previously thought. Earthsound 18:02, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Request to fix headings

I would like to request that the heading "Alternate realities" be changed to "Other versions" and the heading "Appearances in other media" be changed to "In other media" so that this is consistent with the template established in the Comics WikiProject. --Freak104 14:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Protection has been reduced. Cheers. --MZMcBride 19:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Edit war

I've rv to last Smackbot. If there's going to be an edit war between The Balance and Asgardian, why don't we just start before them and ask for an RfC. Thoughts from fellow editors?

One thought from me at top: "It is revealed that" is a passive-voice weasel phrase that should be avoid. Better to use active voice and to just say what was revealed. "In Fantastic Four #1000, Galactus learned he had indigestion all these years", or whatever. --Tenebrae 18:55, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Formal Request for Comment

Since User:Asgardian has chosen to revert and continue an edit war, I am calling for a Request for Comment from fellow editors. Given the sheer number of changes, I'd suggest we take it paragraph by paragraph.

The two versions are Asgardian's and User:TheBalance's:

• Last Asgardian version

• Last The Balance version

I'd like to get the ball rolling with graf 1:

Galactus is a fictional character, a cosmic entity, in the Marvel Universe. Created by writer-editor Stan Lee and penciler and co-plotter Jack Kirby — prompted by Lee's suggestion to Kirby to "have the Fantastic Four fight God"[citation needed] — he first appeared as an antagonist in Fantastic Four vol. 1, #48 (March 1966), the first of three consecutive issues comprising what fans and historians would later call "The Galactus Trilogy".

• First sentence I'd suggest slight expansion for WPC style, to say "fictional comic-book character in the Marvel Comics universe".

• I'd leave out the m-dash phrase in sentence 2, and place it in PH if we can source it.

• The rest of sentence two seems factual: Antagonist? Yes. FF48? Yes. Three consecutive issues? Yes. Called "Galactus Trilogy"? Yes, and given that it's a term used commonly and typically, I believe it belongs in the lead, but sourced. There are countless sources; offhand, I've pulled out: Thomas, Roy, Stan Lee's Amazing Marvel Universe (Sterling Publishing, New York, 2006), "Moment 29: The Galactus Trilogy", pp. 112-115. ISBN-10 1-4027-4225-8; ISBN-13 978-1-4027-4225-5; Marvel Spotlight: Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer (2007; no month): "Jack Kirby's The Galactus Trilogy", by Erik Larsen, pp. 10-21 (unnumbered).

Thoughts? --Tenebrae 15:19, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

• Re: "a fictional comic-book character in the Marvel Comics universe" He's not fictional within the Marvel Universe.

"a fictional character, a cosmic entity in the Marvel Comics universe" would be more consistent with how we've started going with those opening sentences lately. Doczilla 17:49, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

That's a really good, sharp distinction. I'll start adjusting leads that way on my watchlist articles. Although we could probably say "fictional comic book character, a cosmic entity in the Marvel Comics universe", since no where else in the lead does it specify he appears in comic books as opposed to comic strips, graphic novels, manga or other forms. --Tenebrae 18:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Doc on the first line and with Tenebrae about the "dashed" section. That full second sentence though...

"Created by writer-editor Stan Lee and penciler and co-plotter Jack Kirby, the character first appeared as an antagonist in a three issue story arc that began in Fantastic Four vol. 1, #48 (Mar. 1966). This ar would later be called "The Galactus Trilogy" by fans and historians.^[1][2]

"1. ↑ Thomas, Roy, Stan Lee's Amazing Marvel Universe (Sterling Publishing, New York, 2006), "Moment 29: The Galactus Trilogy", pp. 112-115. ISBN-10 1-4027-4225-8; ISBN-13 978-1-4027-4225-5

"2. ↑ Marvel Spotlight: Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer (2007; no month): "Jack Kirby's The Galactus Trilogy", by Erik Larsen, pp. 10-21 (unnumbered)

- J Greb 07:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

In general, it's usually better to use active voice rather than passive: "fans and historians call...", rather than "called by fans and historians." Just sayin'. Though in this case the passive voice has source, and it's not one of those "It is believed that...." things, so if consensus is to go with passive in this case, I'm certainly OK.

We ready for next graf?--Tenebrae 13:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, first things first. It is hardly an edit war, as folks just need to understand how to do things Wiki-style. As I said, my main issue is POV. Who says this arc is the Galactus Trilogy? I'd also leave out the mention of fans, as that cannot be proven. Fans may call the first arc many different things. As to historians, again it becomes a question of who. What can be said with confidence is that the arc was "epic". This is reasonable due to the significance of the story, just as the Korvac Saga was epic. If you've found a source, then great. Link it and I have no issue.

That said, this: :"a fictional character, a cosmic entity in the Marvel Comics universe" doesn't really make sense. Try saying it out loud. Try "Galactus is a cosmic entity that exists in the fictional Marvel Universe."

Asgardian 10:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

We start with "fictional character" in these articles. The article is about the character, not the Marvel Universe itself, and we begin by clearly stating the character's own fictional nature. Doczilla 07:15, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Roy Thomas, Stan Lee, and Erik Larsen are sources for the term Galactus Trilogy. See citations above.

I'm with J Greb and the previously consensus-derived WPC editorial exemplar on the version of the intro line. Unless other editors want to comment, it's been days and we have a majority of the commenting editors reaching consensus. Let's wait a day and go to the next paragraph then. --Tenebrae 14:21, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

With Doczilla's point... a suggested rework for the lead:

"Galactus is a fictional character in the Marvel Universe, where it is portrayed as a cosmic entity.

"Writer-editor Stan Lee and penciler and co-plotter Jack Kirby created the character as an antagonist for the Fantastic Four comic book. It first appeared in a three issue story arc that began in Fantastic Four vol. 1, #48 (Mar. 1966), which historians of the medium would later call "The Galactus Trilogy".^[1][2]

"1. ↑ Thomas, Roy, Stan Lee's Amazing Marvel Universe (Sterling Publishing, New York, 2006), "Moment 29: The Galactus Trilogy", pp. 112-115. ISBN-10 1-4027-4225-8; ISBN-13 978-1-4027-4225-5

"2. ↑ Marvel Spotlight: Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer (2007; no month): "Jack Kirby's The Galactus Trilogy", by Erik Larsen, pp. 10-21 (unnumbered)"

- J Greb 08:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Still a tad clumsy. Try this:

"The character is created by writer-editor Stan Lee and penciler and co-plotter Jack Kirby. Galactus first appears in Fantastic Four vol. 1, #48 - 50 (Mar. 1966), an arc later referred to as "The Galactus Trilogy".

This keeps it simple. Galactus has always been referred to as a "he" (and is in the article), not an "it". That will create confusion. Also lead with "the character" and in the following sentence his actual name to avoid repetition. Also avoid the wordiness and go for a succinct statement. "First appears in FF vol. 1, 48 - 50 (date)" keeps present tense, spells out which book and that it is obviously a trilogy. "Historians of the medium" is also clunky and pretentious. Just say "later referred to etc." with a source tagged on the end. That's enough. People don't get preceded by a title in comics articles as a rule - there's just a source at the end of the statement.

Asgardian 06:34, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

He was created - past tense. That's fact, not fiction. The statement about the first appearance at that point in the article is not fiction either. The same statement, when placed within the fictional history section, would have to be present tense, but not in the lead. The lead is fine except that (1) the unsourced remark about having the FF fight God either needs deleted or moved into the publication history section and (2) the thing about fans and historians is inappropriate for the lead without proper sourcing.

• • "Galactus is a fictional character, a cosmic entity in the Marvel Universe. Created by writer/editor Stan Lee and penciller/co-plotter Jack Kirby, he first appeared as an antagonist in Fantastic Four vol. 1, #48 (March 1966)." (Or add sources for more info. Don't leave the lead with a lingering "citation needed".)

Although, does it matter that Stan edited the story too? Writer should suffice. And without a source citing Jack as co-plotter, we should call him what those issues of FF called him. We're already giving him equal credit as having created the character. Even if we have a co-plot source (which should be easy to get), that info belongs in publication history. Keep the lead simple. Doczilla 06:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you Doc, the lead is supposed to be a real world description of the subject. I had deliberately split it into 2 'graphs so there wouldn't be a jump in tense. The first is what the subject is since it, the character, is still in use by Marvel. Looking at Asgardian's comment, I would change one thin in that sentence though, swapping "...where it is portrayed..." with "...where the character is portrayed as...". It may be a double take on "character" but it grounds that the article deals with what is essentially a thing.

As for the second section... 1) I tried to avoid passive voice in it, hence "Lee & Kirby created the character..." and "...which historians would later call..." 2) Given the profile of both Lee and Kirby, the "job" notations could be done away with entirely. And 3) looking at it again, "of the medium" is putting on airs and can go.

- J Greb 07:35, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

As soon as the edit protect is lifted I plan on greatly expanding the publication history. What will be expanded on is as follows:

The original impetus behind the creation of Galactus, sourced from jack kirby interviews/primary sources. Mystical/Mythical connotations heavily symbolized in the story, including summarized analysis/interpretation from comic hisorians Significance of the story The evolving interpretation of Galactus by writers featured in thor, silver surfer, fantastic four, and the galactus limited series, among others. this will all be referenced and cited.Mobb One 16:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

That sounds good! If can just start with a date for every new point I'm happy.

Asgardian 10:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

First issue: Asgardian saying this isn't the result of an edit war doesn't make it so. Other editors say it is, creating a consensus.

Second, I'd like to ask J Greb to put his synthesis of the lead, based on our discussion, immediately below so that we make look at it, reach consensus, and move to the next graf(s). Thanks. --Tenebrae 16:53, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Working with the additional suggestions:

"Galactus is a fictional character in the Marvel Universe, where the character is portrayed as a cosmic entity.

"Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the character as an antagonist for the Fantastic Four comic book. It first appeared in a three issue story arc that began in Fantastic Four vol. 1, #48 (Mar. 1966), which historians would later call "The Galactus Trilogy".^[1][2]

"1. ↑ Thomas, Roy, Stan Lee's Amazing Marvel Universe (Sterling Publishing, New York, 2006), "Moment 29: The Galactus Trilogy", pp. 112-115. ISBN-10 1-4027-4225-8; ISBN-13 978-1-4027-4225-5

"2. ↑ Marvel Spotlight: Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer (2007; no month): "Jack Kirby's The Galactus Trilogy", by Erik Larsen, pp. 10-21 (unnumbered)"

Keep in mind this is set up as a mock-up with the ref/cite call outs. It also feels a little thin, but serviceable, for a lead. - J Greb 08:08, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

He's not fictional within the Marvel Universe. "Portrayed"? There's no actor playing the part. Within the Marvel Universe, Galactus simply is a cosmic entity. This accurately combines the information:

Galactus is a fictional character, a cosmic entity in the Marvel Universe.

Notice that I put no comma after entity because the comma presently in the article screws up in the meaning. The comma says that in addition to being a fictional character, Galactus really is a cosmic entity, but he's not. He's only a cosmic entity within the MU. On to the second sentence . . .

"It"? Although I understand the rationale, that's just not what we say. If you don't like "he" when discussing the character as a comic property, avoid any pronoun at that point in the article. Okay, we have sources calling it the Galactus Trilogy, but historians aren't the ones who first called it that. Either Stan or the fans first called it that way back when. Try this for the second sentence:

Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby as an antagonist for the Fantastic Four, Galactus first appeared in Fantastic Four vol. 1 #48 (Mar. 1966), the first part of a three-issue story later known as "The Galactus Trilogy". REFS

He was created as an antagonist for the Fantastic Four characters. He did not antagonize the comic book. Yeah, that sounds picky, but it's redundant to say Fantastic Four as the publication twice in the same sentence if you don't have to. I can pull out The Elements of Style and other sources to elaborate on why using coordination and subordination for the sentence's three parts is better than using any conjunction or breaking it into two sentences. Doczilla 09:42, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I like it, Doc. As I indicated earlier, all the essential information can be conveyed in one fluid sentence. While I don't like "it" (none of the other cosmics are referred to in this manner), I think "he" is serviceable as it is fairly commonplace. We can always alternate between "Galactus" and "the character" if that's not an option.

Asgardian 09:50, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

A minor quibbling point... "portrayed" can be used for "shown as", ie "The news story portrayed the politician in a bad light." Evidently that usage is less common than it once was since the immediate assumption was that an actor was involved.

That aside, the structure Doc's put up works well. - J Greb 16:59, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Here is User:Doczilla's first graf, incorporating User:Asgardian's point about the team vs. the comic book series, and an additional word in the lead sentence:

Galactus is a fictional character, a cosmic entity in the Marvel Comics universe. Created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby as an antagonist for the Fantastic Four, the character first appeared in Fantastic Four vol. 1, #48 (Mar. 1966), the first part of a three-issue story later known as "The Galactus Trilogy". REFS

What do we think? Have we nailed it? --Tenebrae 01:19, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I like it. Fingers crossed, maybe we can stick a fork in this piece and call it done.

And I hope it was clear that REFS was my shorthand for:

^[1][2]

"1. ↑ Thomas, Roy, Stan Lee's Amazing Marvel Universe (Sterling Publishing, New York, 2006), "Moment 29: The Galactus Trilogy", pp. 112-115. ISBN-10 1-4027-4225-8; ISBN-13 978-1-4027-4225-5

"2. ↑ Marvel Spotlight: Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer (2007; no month): "Jack Kirby's The Galactus Trilogy", by Erik Larsen, pp. 10-21 (unnumbered)" Doczilla 08:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Clear indeed!

If there's no objection by end of day today, I'll swap in the consensus version of graf 1.

On to graf 2!

Graf 2

Here's my pass at it, which combines the first two grafs of the PH. I've edited out some of the self-evident material ("the need to generate sales" compelled creation of Galactus -- the need to generate sales compels everything) and toned down the hyperbole and passive-voice material ("is considered by many to be the finest work of Kirby and Lee collaborating together" ... as opposed to collaborating apart, one supposes....) The material about the trilogy's historical importance can go into a Legacy section, since PH is more of a roadmap than anything.

Publication history
Image caption: Fantastic Four #48 (March 1966). Cover art by Jack Kirby & Sinnott.

Writer-editor Stan Lee and penciler and co-plotter Jack Kirby introduced Galactus and his herald the Silver Surfer in a three-part story Fantastic Four vol. 1, #48-50 (March-May 1966). Insert cited ref quoting a Stan Lee sentence or two on Galactus' creation, while Kirby said he drew inspiration from the Bible. (Ref The Masters of Comic Book Art (1987), directed by Ken Viola). Galactus made a flashback cameo in Daredevil vol. 1, #37 (Feb. 1968) before returning to Earth to retrieve the Silver Surfer in actual and behind-the-scenes appearances throughout Fantastic Four #72-77 (March-Aug. 1968). He next appeared in extensive flashback in the heretofore unrevealed origin of the Silver Surfer, in The Silver Surfer vol. 1, #1 (Aug. 1968).

OK, let's tackle that above graf!--Tenebrae 11:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: the need to generate sales and the villains/gangsters, this needs to remain in the PH or perhaps in the legacy section which you suggest. Kirby goes on to reveal in the interview that Galactus and the Silver Surfer are the first such characters of their kind ever created in comics medium. The creations were the first departure from the standard villain archetype, which made them so revolutionary. I am a professional in finance-sales does not necessarily generate innovation, which is what I was trying to communicate in my original (though incomplete) paragraph.

Re: the stan Lee citation. I haven't found any such reliable source for his part in creating Galactus. If you can find one then that would be excellent. As it is, I've seen more articles indicating that Lee had much less of a hand in creating Galactus than Kirby.

For the publication history, there should be a sentence or three summarizing the the events of key issues/stories, along with the significance of the issue/story on the development of the character, as opposed to just having issues with publication dates. See the publication history for the Storm entry, which is acknowledged as one of the more exemplary articles per wiki comics project. I don't think it's appropriate to just have a streamlined approach to the PH...to the average reader they're just titles and the year of their publication. There's a real disconnect there. So, as it stands, I disagree with the above paragraph.Mobb One 13:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

We should all check out the Storm entry. Lee quotes exist; I've been a little too swamped to research cites, but I promise to.

As for whether or not such characters existed before, I'm sure Kirby believes they were revolutionary and unique, but comics previously had antagonists whose actions threatened the entire world. I think we need to specify what the unique elements are.

Since it's toward the end of the day (9 p.m. EDT), it appears we have consensus on the first graf, so I'll go ahead an put it in. --Tenebrae 01:09, 19 June 2007(UTC)

  re: antagonists-expounding on what makes galactus (and to a degree, the silver surfer) so unique was my intention in a subsequent development paragraph. if you watch the video interview, kirby made a clear distinction between antagonists in the past...i.e. villains like doom who threatened the whole world for power/conquest/wealth...these he lumps into a category he labels "gangsters."

The difference between them and Galactus is that Galactus is such a higher being that all human motivations are beneath him. This makes him singular in this aspect and separate from any and all villains. That is why Kirby drew motivation from the Bible...Galactus was to be depicted as having such incomprehensible power that he was beyond all mortal ken, and his motivations were purely for assurance of his own survival-the concerns of normal man were too far beneath him to even take notice...making him a true "god" in that respect-kirby even stated that they (galactus and ss) were meant to be portrayed as being above mythological figures (thor, odin, etc.) and more a pantheon of true cosmic "gods." This is what kirby was driving at and conveyed in the interview. And he primarily was motivated to break away from the mold of traditional villain (the "gangster" archetype) due to a need to increase sales. How to increase sales? Create a character that had never been seen before.Mobb One 16:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking the best way to get this across is to have the full Jack Kirby quote. Could you transcribe it from the documentary and copy it here? Since Kirby, God bless 'im, often exaggerated and misremembered things, we'd probably need a balancing quote. Thanks! --Tenebrae 17:08, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Start with the date. That's where it begins and ends.

Asgardian 02:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

"My inspirations were the fact that, I had to make sales. And I had to come up with characters that were no longer stereotypes. In other words I couldn't depend on gangsters anymore, I had to get something new. And of course I...for some reason, I went to the Bible. And I came up with Galactus. And there I was in front of this tremendous figure, who I knew very well, because I always felt him, and I certainly couldn't treat him the same way that I would any ordinary mortal...and of course the Silver Surfer is the fallen angel. And when Galactus relegated him to Earth he stayed on Earth. And that was the beginning of his adventures. And they were...figures that have never been used before in comics. They were above mythic figures, and of course, they were the first gods."

-Jack Kirby, 1986~1987

Mobb One 03:17, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Cool! I'll find a Stan Lee quote about the creation of Galactus from a real-world, PH perspective. These would be separate grafs that would follow a set-up graf (graf 2).

I think the name of the documentary with the Kirby quote is here somewhere, but I don't readily see it. Could you add it so we can do the footnote?

Everyone else OK with adding a Kirby and a Lee quote? They're primary sources. --Tenebrae 03:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

The Masters of Comic Book Art. Dir. Ken Viola 1987 moving forward...there's material (from secondary sources, i.e. jack kirby collector journal) analyzing what the significance of the "Galactus Trilogy" represents to comics in general, and more specifically how the characters (Galactus and SS) are interpreted and why exactly they were revolutionary. This may be a bit much to include in the PH, I think we should have a legacy section as you mention. The kirby/lee quotes should suffice for the PH, and then we can elaborate on this quoting sources for analysis in a legacy section or similar. Mobb One 19:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Relationship between Galactus and the Celestials

Galactus actually eats planets to control the celestials, I am not sure what comic this is from but the artwork looks legit

"The Celestials are race of gigantic cosmic beings who have god-like powers. They were inhabitants of the universe that existed before our own, who had advanced themselves so far up the evolutionary ladder that their very existence caused that universe to collapse. They survived the Big Bang of our universe, and have continued to thrive ever since.

As they advanced themselves, the Celestials began to lose their physical forms. To keep from completely discorporating into the Universe, they created shells for themselves out of the metal known on Earth as vibranium. The Celestials are now beings of pure energy, thought and will incarnate. Each, however, has a distinctive outer casing.

As a result of their advancement, Celestials cannot reproduce the way lesser species do. To generate offspring, Celestials implant of piece of their essences inside a planet. They then surround the embryonic energy with vibranium, which the offspring will use as a casing when it emerges. Finally, to protect the offspring from alien invaders who might harm the planet, the Celestials modify the indigenous intelligent life of the planet, imlanting a "seed" in its genes that will mutate and give super-powers to them as the embryo nears maturation. The vibranium helps to serve as a catalyst for this change. The guardian life evolves through three levels of mutation before the Celestial emerges and the entire world, including its populace, is converted into vibranium for the newborn's use. The Celestials have one natural predator: Galactus, a being who also survived the destruction of the previous universe, and knew the Celestials had caused it. He dedicated himself to controlling the Celestials population growth, which he does using sophisticated machinery that absorbs the embryo's energy from its planetary womb. This has the unfortunate side-effect of destroying the planet, which is why Earth heroes have fought Galactus off numerous times"

http://www.mutanthigh.com/aliens/celestials1.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.87.210.253 (talk • contribs)

Movie Screencapture

We'll have to wait for the DVD release for a long time but, if the movie releases on DVD, could one of you take a screencap of Galactus in the movie? We might need it, thanks.

My reason for this is that the cloud looks cool (I only saw the TV spot).

Sorry for being (I don't remember how to spell it but it's someone who doesn't want people to know who he/she is)

Galactus: FF: Rise of the Silver Surfer

The article states that Galactus is a sentient cloud in the film; however, although massive and clearly having vast powers there doesn't seem to be any implicit indications that the cloud is sentient. 66.109.248.114 01:40, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Silver Surfer spoke to and him as if he is Sentient; the Herald even summoned Galactus by name. --Panelmyth107 06:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Speaking to something as if it were sentient does not make it sentient. Summoning the Galactus by name, does not rule out any other cues, prompts or signal that may have been projected at that point.66.109.248.114 20:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Whatever, give me a break. The Surfer obviously had a relationship and a bargain with him, and referred to it as "him". It's blatantly obvious it's a sentient lifeform. You shouldn't need to get beaten over the head with it to be able top understand that.Rglong 23:26, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Galactus could just as easily have been an entity surrounded by the cloud. In fact, that's how my sons interpreted shadows they saw in the area the Surfer was talking toward, while SS himself was inside some of the cloud. Either way, we cannot insert our own inferences into the article. Doczilla 07:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

That thing was huge. Though in a way I do not believe that he was sentient because I agree somewhat with Doczilla Maybe Galactus was just an Entity surrounded by the cloud and his "Arms" (I don't know what else to call them) began to reach into the Planet. But we will never know the truth untill one of the Directors or other Crew members that worked on the movie state that he is in fact sentinet. Though he could have been part of the galaxy or something to do with like Eternity from the comics. But then again he could have been alive or the Surfer would not have been able to blow him up and kill him. Or unless that Surfer just destroyed a life bearing string in the Galaxy that hold the fabrics of reality together. But untill someone does say that he is a life form or not, all we can do is just assume. And we can not add assumptions into the article without reference saying that it is correct so I believe we just say that he is an Entity of the Galaxy, not a lifeform but not not alive. If that makes sense. ManofSTEEL2772 01:44 p.m. June 19 2007

I don't think it's an "inference" to say that he's sentient. He has the power to reason, he made a deal with the Surfer. The surfer bows down to him and talks to him. Galactus has solid, geometric form underneath the fire and his head moves to react to the Surfer. It's not like it's totally up in the air and you can interpret it any way you want. If we start limiting wikipedia to only containing what's blatantly, painfully obvious and spelled out (like you need the script to specifically use the word "sentient" or something) then it's going to end up being pretty darn shallow and stripped of real information. But then more and more people these days can't understand anything unless they're beaten over the head with it.

Additionally I saw the movie again and it's pretty clear there are solid, mechanical structures just underneath the clouds, especially metal fingers poking out underneath the smoke tendrils. Go ahead and wait for the DVD if you want but that cloud is just concealing a huge structure underneath.Rglong 23:14, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, there is one part in the film. When the Fantastic Four are looking up towards the sky, there appeared to be a brief moment that shows an eye. I've only seen the movie once so far, but has anyone else noticed this too? I too feel that there is a being cover up by the fires and smoke, they probably made Galactus this way so he wouldn't look to ridiculous in the film.