User talk:Yngvarr

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You, come help!

OK, just checking about for articles that I can edit to some degree and although nice to see Squirrel Boy and related articles are relatively clean and edited conservatively, it's still not good. Just asking for suggestions as the article has links to articles for characters although many more "popular" shows do not as there's so little to say on them they'd rarely ever make it up from Stub status. I'm proposing a small rewrite and possible padding as I want to take out the chararcter list and create a new article (and possible headache) but it makes up the bulk of the article so I'm looking to you to help consult with this for one single sweeping edit to be made so it cleans it up a bit and adds some more information. --treelo _talk 14:43, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've created List of characters in Squirrel Boy for now, just a copy-paste from the main Squirrel Boy page, and nothing links to it yet. We can merge in the individual characters pages to this new, copy-edit everything, and then edit Squirrel Boy to remove all the character info.Yngvarr 15:03, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work so far, main article seems a bit thin now though. Add a synopsis of the show at least and possibly trim down the main character bios and add them in for padding. If you can think of anything else to add, do so and I'll be the second opinion. --treelo _talk 15:31, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll continue to work on fleshing it out; right now, I'm called elsewhere (real-life) Yngvarr 16:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Be careful of reverts, given such a big edit it could happen. Seeing as the articles for the characters are now essentially orphans, I'll make them redirect pages instead. --treelo _talk 16:09, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Camp Lazlo and its many pages

Just as it's a specialist area for you, I've noticed that the main article for Camp Lazlo... well, I have a few questions about it and the offshoots and want your opinion on them.

Why does Camp Lazlo have a small navigation template? I know you didn't create it and you haven't edited it at all but it's worth asking why as it really doesn't work for six pages, one of which is redundant.

Is the species list (which oddly enough is just below the See Also section, usually at the bottom) totally needed? The character list pages should have them there with their respective characters, not just placed weirdly near the bottom as if it was sneaked in.

I've had one heck of a time with MGPAM, its' ever-changing character list and what passes for notable. The list seems fine to an extent but "minor" and "notable" seem interchangeable and generally speaking. If all that can be written on any character is "An air conditioner which fell from an airplane that was seen in "Over Cooked Beans" as was written for Mr. Freezy Breeze then it's not worthy of inclusion even for minor entities. My baseline stands at having an speaking appearance at least twice and possibly as a major part of those episodes. I should take that type of logic to the KND editors but they're a bit crazy there but it's my next area to goto.

Lists are not my friends and happen to not like indiscriminate lists so have a pretty dim view of them, haven't gone to see the List of places in Camp Lazlo and given how I felt some months ago about it, I reckon I won't like it though it has reason to exist. Also, everything is written in a very fanboyish style, something you were meaning to handle right? --treelo _talk 16:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've been trying to keep the edits to be a little less than drastic, so my starting goal was to clean up grammar, typos, and that stuff. I'm editing each subsection at a time (the character descriptions, places, whatnot) and adding footnote references. IMO, footnote refs make the text cleaner and easier to read, rather than seeing every other sentence starting with "In the episode..."

As for the lists, at the very least, the TOC's will be severely edited, for reasons for which I agree. While a lot of the fluff still exists for the List of places in Camp Lazlo, you might actually like what's changed (and will - see the talk page).

What I've actually been doing is setting my DVR to record each episode, so I can pause, rewind, etc, and review the articles for what's written. For example, I have a major rewrite of Raj, that'll I'll be posting soon.

I've been looking at the template, but really haven't any ideas at the moment to improve it. I looked at Foster's template, which is very nice, but a little too big, and may use some of their ideas to expand the CL template. Someone recently added a single episode, the Invaded episode, to the template, which is just not visually appealing at all. Yngvarr 16:15, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I'm happy with making the locations in CL much less listy and that's always good. Sometimes drastic edits are what's required, I haven't exactly felt like I'm doing wrong if I'm rewriting an article so the fluff, cruft and crummy prose get cut out, for the greater good and all that. Writing about where characters appear is hard and most times it'd be easier to cite what episodes they appear in and possibly refer to TV.com for episode synopses which is something I wasn't aware would be the done type of thing and would help in other lists. I've considered FHIF to be a much larger project than the other toons just by being made by either Craig McCracken as anything by him or Genndy Tartakovsky usually has a huge world within itself so basing it off FHIF is way overstretching it. Not many shows have them unless they can give a good use, CL doesn't seem to be too different, anyway it was much larger and sprawling before and now has little use and could be removed to be honest. I could rewrite some as I'm slowly progressing through episodes not aired here and building up a better idea of the characters and what's useless to write about. Got a gameplan in mind? I'd like to see where I can actually be of use and not just for CL and SB articles. --treelo _talk 21:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Right now, what I am trying to do is edit the in-text phrases "in the episode..." and replace them with footnotes to the cited episode. I suspect that'll make the text read much clearer. What I did, for example, for Raj, was simply copy his whole description into a text editor, find and delete all redundancies, and relocate descriptive text so that they're adjacent, rather than in wholly separate paragraphs.

Check out my edits; even if you simply remove the "in the episode..." phrases and replace them with reference tags, without any major rewrite, that would be useful. I haven't done some, simply because I cannot recall the episode in mind, and can't be entirely sure of my memory.

I've also been trying to standardize how episodes are cited, when they are included in the text. Sometimes they're surrounded by double-quotes, but I've been replacing them with the emphasis (two single quotes) marks.

oh yea, I've been looking for over-use of parenthesis, and replacing them with clauses. Sometimes you can't help it tho.

A lot of the fancruft needs to be trimmed out, all the references to "family" and what-not. Unless specifically mentioned, there's no reason for it to be there; but, as you know, it keeps coming back.

Some of the descriptive text is useless, but I haven't removed much of it. Yet. Knowing that Edward has a pet piranha probably is of no significance, and adds no real depth to the character. Basic personality traits, recurring behavior, major plot devices, are the more important things.Yngvarr 21:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nice, I'll try and rewrite some chunks. I was thinking about rewriting Clam's profile in the same way so hopefully I'll get that in too. People usually follow citations and the style of the article just so it doesn't stick out, be good to do it all and pick the others out when some IP editor comes along and screws it up. I think this'll rely on each of us doing a bunch of edits or one large edit then letting the other get in and do their bit, I'm well aware of notability so it should run closely to your own ideas. --treelo _talk 23:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great. I did some quick work on the Squirrel Scouts section, mostly ripping out a lot of the "she appeared in", and tried to just leave minor points of interest. I also combined the "three unnamed squirrel scouts" into a single entity, but I'm sure fanfic will still pop in. I think I might be done for the night (8pm here). I'm going to leave the "inuse" tag you put up, in case you're gonna work some more tonight. Yngvarr 23:50, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That inuse tag has a purpose but you and someone else did manage to get 7 edits in, all of which I ran right over because I didn't know what had changed but it's OK, I'll look over the last diff and incorporate your recent edits for the Squirrel Scouts. It's now merely a under construction as I've given in for the night (it's whatever time the sig states but one hour more) and shall resume sometime in the future. Keep up the referencing though, hard work but the 'episode' at the end of each citation note is redundant, it's implied from the section named "Episode References" which they all sit under. --treelo _talk 01:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome! I just quickly checked it out, before I start my day; looks good so far. Sorry about stepping on your edits, was hoping I didn't. I like the IPA pronunciation for Lumpis, and especially the table for the footnotes (that was starting to concern me, since it was getting a bit unwieldy). Yngvarr

Bad edits are crawling back in, especially one huge edit which annoyed me as it was the same type of crap which happened at the MGPAM character article. I'd rather if we didn't document every appearance of the minor Squirrels or Beans. --treelo _talk 13:59, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I just got back from a weekend trip to the shore, and was kind of afraid it would happen. I looked quickly at the edits, it seems at least one other person is on "our side", and I noticed the "repeat offenders" are still trying to help. I'm kinda glad to see the "unnamed squirrels" missing, and the same will have to happen to the unnamed (fan-named) beans. I've been trying to be diplomatic, incorporating these "good faith" edits into the text, grammatically and syntactically, but it'll need some more sweeping edits.

one thing I was trying to do with my edits, is to do minor edits, even if it involved doing multiple edits to the same subsection. It helps to prevent revert-happy editors from sticking some of the nonsense back in, but maybe that's not such a good method.

Well, when I settle in, I'll see what's up, and hopefully we won't step on each other.Yngvarr 19:07, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think one other is on our side but one really isn't. Most of the good faith edits are hopelessly crufty and couldn't be incorporated well without it reading just like cruft. Minor or major edits, doesn't matter as they'll still do it. Just keep at it as it's going to need tending to and I don't want another MGPAM character list on my hands where the IP editors have to be locked out. --treelo _talk 23:00, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

right. I've gone thru again, and did some more cleanup. Just need to touch up the last section "other squirrel scouts"

One of the next painful exercises will be to dramatically pare down the episodes article. WP:EPISODE says 10 words per minute, and given each episode is ~10 minutes, that's at most 100 words, which a lot of the "plot summaries" greatly exceed. Yngvarr 00:34, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah? Alright then, most people do see them for documenting every event in an episode from beginning to end but it's only supposed to be a rought summary. I'll try but I've got a feeling I'm not being the best editor at the moment.

Welcome to VandalProof!

Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Yngvarr! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. Daniel 04:14, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A little something for your efforts

		The Minor Barnstar
		I, Lucky number 49 award Yngvarr with this barnstar in recognition of their attention to detail and numerous helpful small edits. Lucky number 49 00:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]