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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Wavesmikey (talk | contribs) at 17:08, 21 June 2005 (→[[Human thermodynamics]]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Human thermodynamics

Someone tagged this as a speedy because it's got the same name as recent vfd deleted content, but this text is IMO significantly different. I'm bringing it here to see what the community opinion is before acting. Please be sure to read the text and not just vote based on the previous VFD. - Mgm|(talk) 21:37, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

  • Phrase only gets 14 google hits, but it might be one of many terms used to describe a similar concept - in which case, I might vote to keep if it made sense once translated into something more easily understandable. -- BDAbramson talk 22:01, 2005 Jun 20 (UTC)
  • Delete I'm inclined to dismiss this as patent nonsense. At best, it's original research and original speculation tacked on to the name of a paper by Libb Thims (name of the journal in which the article appeared would help with verifying that) and a misapplication of thermodynamics (closed system, people, closed system). No, I take it back, that's not at best. At best, this isn't original research and speculation, just a really sloppy presentation of non-notable pseudoscience. The Literate Engineer 01:31, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong delete. I read the text, and I understand the material. It is well-disguised nonsense. It is, for the most part, basic thermodynamics (badly presented, should be in LaTeX) that is dealt with just fine by other, dedicated articles. See, e.g. entropy, free energy. Note that these terms are standard thermo terms. Then, the article goes off the rails and says things like "wherein a man M meets or collides in time with a woman W over the substrate surface called ‘earth’ to form a bonded relationship" which is nearly patent nonsense and it goes down hill from there. The website looks professional, to a point, and claims they have a PhD - I reckon it's an elaborate hoax. Further the Google hits deal with the perfectly good topic of human thermo in terms of "how do you keep people cool" and "what sort of ways do humans lose heat/warm up" etc. It's subtle, but I reckon it's nonsense.-Splash 01:43, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete It's different than the last article, but "different" does not mean "better" in this case. --Xcali 03:53, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Strong Keep. I am the author. I understand everyone’s inherent frustration with its content, i.e. the application of reaction mechanics to one’s own life. It's emotionally-confusing to point the microscope at oneself. However, let me ask this: in human life, do we all agree that bonds are broken and bonds are formed? If so, why is it that we cannot find one semblance of an article related to human bonding in Wikipedia written in the format of chemistry, in spite of the fact that numerous Laureates have spent decades working on such a premise (as shown by all the quotes)? Maybe I should search under ‘witchcraft’, ‘mystery’, ‘glue-all’, or maybe ‘Romance Novels’? According to Merriam-Webster, an ‘encyclopedia’ is defined as: a work that contains information on all branches of knowledge. Is this or is this not an encyclopedia? By definition, thermodynamics is the science of energy transformations. By definition, human thermodynamics is a branch of thermodynamics. If I was a random person curious as to whether or not thermodynamics is applicable to human life, I would be extremely content to find such a straight forward article. As Wikipedia is such renowned worldly encyclopedia, I would certainly expect it to have some content in this direction. P.S. human systems are ‘open’. Check your facts. --Wavesmikey 03:56, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm aware human systems are open systems. My understanding is, though, that the second law of thermodynamics, referenced in this article, from which Gibbs free energy, also referenced, is derived applies primarily to closed systems. I admit, open systems do exist and can be described with thermodynamics; nonetheless, their application to group dynamics is a major stretch, and modeling human relationships on them involves all sorts of unstated assumptions, for instance that a state function (like Gibbs free energy) even applies. Or that they're spontaneous. My skepticism of this article is heightened by having looked at the site linked to from the Thims reference and noticed it firmly on the pseudo- side of fringe science. And, since Thims seems to be the only actual researcher in the field of "human thermodynamics", the article now strikes me as unverifiable. I stand by my vote, thus ends my comment. The Literate Engineer 04:55, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Creative and original, but not scientific or encyclopedic. Thermodymics isn't meant to describe human relationships—and there is little evidence to suggest that this is a notable pet theory. --TenOfAllTrades(talk) 04:35, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • Thank-you for your rebuttal; let me clarify the situation. Yes, the second law applies to ‘closed’ systems. However, Gibbs free energy change ∆G does not apply to ‘closed’ systems. The Gibbs free energy change ∆G represents the minimum ‘work’ exchanged by the system with the surroundings – hence we are discussing ‘open’ systems. On a positive note, I do sense there to be a consensus forming to ‘close’ this article. Thus, let me ask our wise panel the following: What is the scientific name of the ‘force’ that holds a married couple together in ‘bonded’ matrimony? I’ll give you a hint: there are only four choices: 1. the strong nuclear force, 2. the electromagnetic force, 3. the weak nuclear force, 4. the gravitational force. There’s a 25% chance you’ll get it right. --Wavesmikey 06:02, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete as cruft. Xoloz 06:18, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete entirely non-encyclopedic, non-notable fringe and original research. Bambaiah 06:40, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
  • Patent nonsense/original research. Not an encyclopedia article - delete. - Mike Rosoft 07:25, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)


  • The paper in question, which as we see is very controversial, has been encompassed into four soon to be published textbooks on human thermodynamics; see: HT Books. However, I am not the only one working in this direction – check the links. For the moment, possibly to help clear up the air, let me give a tutorial:


  • First, generally speaking, the science of thermodynamics began in 1824 when Sadi Carnot published his analysis on heat engines. The heat engines of his time were steam engines, where wood or coal was burned to create heat. The heat was used to boil water to make pressurized steam. The controlled release of this steam was used to drive a piston. The cyclical movement of the piston was used to turn pulleys to lift water out of salt mines in Europe. Hence, Carnot defined work as ‘a weight lifted through a height’.


  • The ‘system’ in question here is the chemical reaction: coal + oxygen --> carbon dioxide + water. Through this exothermic reaction, energy goes off in two parts: (1) work and (2) waste. Coal is predominately comprised of hydrocarbons. The simplest of hydrocarbons is methane [CH4]. When methane burns with oxygen we have the following reaction: CH4 + 2O2 --> CO2 + 2H2O. In simple language, first someone ‘sparks’ reaction. Second, because of this ‘spark’ the methane and oxygen molecules develop an intense desire to ‘react’ with each other. Third, through the process of this reaction these two molecules are ‘transformed’ into new molecules. Forth, heat is given off, owing to the fact that these new molecules have reached a more stable configuration.


  • Now, unless this is the dark ages, which I’m assuming it isn’t, I’m going to presume that we all agree that humans are made of protons, neutrons, and electrons bond via photon exchange – just as our simple water molecule is made of 10 protons, 8 neutrons, and 10 electrons bonded via photon exchange. Thus, as we see, heat engines are nothing more than systems containing ‘chemical reactions’. Next, given a mass composition table of a human, such as is found in John Emsley’s Nature’s Building Blocks, we can calculate the empirical molecular formula for one human and from this a molecular formula. If you do the calculation, you see that the entity called ‘human’ is actually a twenty-six element molecule.


  • So, the elaborate superficial phenomenon of two humans bonding in an intimate relationship is simply put: ‘a Chemical Reaction’. Here, two molecules bond, energy is given off; some energy goes to waste, some to purpose. If anyone finds this to be pseudoscience than perhaps ignorance is bliss. To ask again: is human life a chemical reaction or not? If it is, then what we have here is straight textbook science. If human life is not a chemical reaction, than yes this presentation is incorrect. My reason for posting this article, is with intentions for that 15-year-old person out there who may possibly search Wikipedia with aims to find some semblance of a scientific article as to why human life works the way it does. Thanks again. --Wavesmikey 17:08, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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