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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by JHunterJ (talk | contribs) at 11:41, 9 September 2007 (→Proposed deletions (WP:PROD): db-disambig instead). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

For discussion related to disambiguation on Wikipedia but not to the project, please use the Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation (general disambiguation) or Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (disambiguation pages) (specific style questions).

Archives: /archive1, /archive2, /archive3, /archive4, /archive5, /archive6, /archive7

WP:ALBUMS naming scheme enigma

There is a proposal in the works for making all album titles include the artist name in parenthesis following the title, ie. Second Genesis (Wayne Shorter album). This is because there is a problem categorizing artist albums into subgenres with our current categorization and naming schemes at WP:ALBUMS. Take the example of Category:Hard bop albums. Per the album's project own guideline, actual albums cannot be placed in that category. So adding Category:Hard bop albums to an album article is not allowed, instead one must create Category:John Coltrane hard bop albums and then make that new category appear in the Category:Hard bop albums category. If you are still with me here, I congratulate you. So I have personally tried to do it according to the guidelines, only to find that it requires way too much work and that there is a much simpler solution. If an album title included the artist name in parenthesis like the example I gave in the opening sentence, then editors could just list an album directly into Category:Hard bop albums without creating a new category for every artist that might have an album that falls into that category. It should be said that often an album that performs hard bop may also have bebop elements, or some other subgenre like free jazz. That means just one artist album may require 3 or even more unique categories just to fall into accordance with WP:ALBUMS guideline. And that is to be done with every musician known to man. It just doesn't make sense. The problem stems from the fact that I can't just place Category:John Coltrane albums in the Category:Hard bop albums category, because not every John Coltrane album is hard bop. I realize that the naming proposal is "controversial", but it seems to me that this is our best solution. Otherwise, WP:ALBUMS is satisfied with mediocre coverage of albums, categorizing Category:John Coltrane albums in Category:Jazz albums, end of story. But some of those albums REQUIRE a breakdown by subgenre to be both honest and accurate in their coverage. Otherwise we cannot even have subgenres, not because albums don't fall under subgenres- but because current rules governing albums will not permit proper categorization in a logical and straightforward fashion. I can tell you personally that I have tried categorizing albums using the Category:John Coltrane hard bop albums method, and I can testify that it is a waste of time and time consuming. It has also been called overcategorization by some users. The current scheme makes it possible for albums to only be placed in the most generic of genres, ie. jazz. If one wants to categorize a Frank Sintra album as a swing music album, they have to create Category:Frank Sinatra swing albums for it to "legally" appear in Category:Swing albums. Note that albums you see that reside at the swing albums category page that appear there by themselves are incorrect per WP:ALBUMS guidelines. A discussion is underway at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums#Yet_another_proposal, and the reception has been anything but enthusiastic. I'm not sure those involved with the discussion have taken the time to even deal with subgenres, therefore they cannot understand the scope of this problem. I thought I'd introduce the discussion here also, to get more input on the matter. Thanks. (Mind meal 18:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Lake Placid disambiguation

I recently finished correcting all non-wikipedia and talk pages that link to Lake Placid (a disambiguation page) so that they go through to the appropriate "Lake Placid". From what I understand, this is an aim of WikiProject Disambiguation. This was the first time I took it upon myself to embark on such a "crusade," and I'd like somebody to look my work over (basically everything on Special:Contributions/RideABicycle from Jailbait (film) (19:35, 16 July 2007) earlier). Can anyone else who does this sort of thing give me some pointers on the topic? Thanks! User:RideABicycle/Signature 00:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

You might find Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links (using popups) interesting. It makes the disambiguation process much easier (IMO). Note that links to talk and user pages should generally not be fixed, as they might be deliberate. I've looked through about half of your Lake Placid contributions, and they were alright (can't do much wrong there). If you have the feeling that there is a primary meaning, like in this case Lake Placid, New York, you may ask for a page swap at Wikipedia:Requested moves, or you can move (with the "move" tab at the top) Lake Placid to Lake Placid (disambiguation) yourself, and then move Lake Placid, New York to the new empty Lake Placid with a hatnote {{otheruses}} at the top. If you need more advice, just ask. – sgeureka t•c 07:58, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the link. I've started to do the same with Iranian. User:RideABicycle/Signature 19:01, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Big Brother

Someone else take a look at Big Brother, please -- I've made a resolution not to get into these things again (after the fun I had at ALF et al.). Thanks -- JHunterJ 19:50, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Primate

I am shocked -- shocked I tell you -- by the mislinks which should go to primate (religion) but actually go to an article on chimps. I just stumbled on one while doing Salvador, then searched and fixed 26 more. It is really embarrassing when Wikipedia calls the Archbishop of Canterbury the gorilla of all England. The obvious fix is to make primate a disambiguation page. Primates has a big project and there are 1457 links to fix, so I've started a discussion at Talk:Primate#Disambiguating Primate. I invite all the disambiguators to join in. — Randall Bart (talk) 21:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How many articles to make a disambiguation page worthwhile?

Is there a guideline for how many people need to share a common surname before a disambiguation page is worthwhile? I'm considering creating disambiguation pages for the following:

  • Rydell (5 people plus a wildlife refuge)
  • Hahne (3 people plus 2 companies)
  • Ecclestone (5 people)

but I won't waste the effort/namespace if people think it wouldn't be worthwhile. Apologies if this question has been asked before, but 7 archive pages is too many for (lazy) me to look through :-) Thanks. DH85868993 08:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd create a new {{surname}} (not necessarily disambiguation) page
  1. if at least two people having the same surname are sometimes (but not often) known by their surname (eg. atheletes), so as to avoid confusion
  2. if there are already similar surname pages where confusion may exist (e.g. Hahn/Hahne)
  3. if a redirect already exists (e.g. Hahne, Ecclestone, although I'd argue that in the case of Ecclestone, you should rather create the new surname page at Ecclestone (surname) than turn the redirect into a surname page)
  4. if there are non-surnames (eg. companies, places, ...) involved, anytime, independent of the number of articles sharing a name.
I would not necessarily create a page for Rydell because if you type it into the search box, you already get presented all people as search results easily. On the other hand, creating a new surname page also doesn't do any harm here either. You may want to create dab/surname page for Rydell because of the wildlife refuge. – sgeureka t•c 09:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify: are you suggesting I should create a {{surname}} page when non-surnames are involved? That seems counter-intuitive to me; I would have thought {{surname}} would be used only when non-surnames aren't involved. Or am I missing something? (entirely possible!) Thanks. DH85868993 11:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No, {{surname}} is just for surname pages; use {{disambig}} and Category:Surnames if a dab page has both surnames and non-surnames on them. I was just trying to point out that disambiguation pages should not be confused with surname pages. I am reluctant to comment on companies [places] whose full name is not a surname, but where a surname is part of the company's name, as it is usually not very obvious whether they are called just Surname. Therefore, I tend to make such pages surname page with entries like
if the company's article doesn't state otherwise (but C. Hahne Mühlenwerke GmbH & Co. KG says it's also called Hahne, so the resulting page should be a dab page). Other people might have other opinions and preferences about this issue. – sgeureka t•c 11:53, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Request for disambiguation: BCMS

Would a project member please change BCMS from a redirect to a disambig page for both Bala Cynwyd Middle School and Crosslinks? I know the second link seems irrelevant, but read the article and you'll see it makes sense. I can't make a disambig myself because I can't login due to the Chinese issue. 79.73.45.86 06:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done. – sgeureka t•c 07:36, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Birth

The page for birth was recently changed from a DAB page to a... I'm not sure what page. A combination of a DAB and dictionary page I guess. It seems like it was a bit of a poor DAB page anyway. But should it be a DAB page at all? I'm confused and don't know enough to edit it appropriately. WLU 13:19, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Technomancer

I'm just wondering if this page is an adequate disambiguation page, or if there should be any improvements made to it? Another editor recently removed some of the entries, but didn't provide an adequate reason, and given that they tried for deletion first anyway, I'm not sure they're going to participate in discussion, so I'd just like some opinions from others. Mister.Manticore 15:39, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

None of the deleted entries needed to be deleted, I agree. I did change or remove some of the bolding and the trailing periods. -- JHunterJ 16:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Now there is an objection that the page is currently NPOV. I can't understand that objection at all. I can't see where POV applies in this case. Is there some requirement that a disambiguation page only exist if a page has the word in its title? Mister.Manticore 16:53, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've suggested a solution on the talk page - use a "see also" section and keep things tight. Everything should be fine after that. (Emperor 21:23, 26 August 2007 (UTC))[reply]

Problem With Pigeons

An issue that some of you could probably fix is here: Talk:Pigeon (disambiguation). I'm not certain what to do with it. -WarthogDemon 20:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Creation of a CJK Taskforce to handle Chinese characters

Noting that WP:UE categorically bans Chinese characters in article titles... There are nevertheless situations where they can be helpful for DAB pages, where (I believe) exceptions should be made. There are often 3 separate articles for identical Chinese character(s), one each for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean names.

For example, the Chinese character 文 is represented by the following 3 currency articles:

In this case, the creation of a disambiguation page 文 (currency) can help disambiguate between the 3. (See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mon (currency) where I am recommending this).

To handle such cases, and to handle Chinese characters in general, I would like to ask you to help set up a CJK (or CJKV) taskforce within WP:WPDAB to handle Chinese characters. (We already use Chinese characters WITHIN Dab pages, as in Takuya Kimura (disambiguation)).

But first, can we reach consensus here whether we can use Chinese characters in DAB page titles? Please comment.--Endroit 16:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I left this comment on that AfD, but I think it's worth placing here as well: If Mon (currency) is moved, please move to 文 or merge to Wen or similar . There's not need for a parenthetical if the base name is open, and disambiguation pages try to avoid separating based on case or accent marks. (And if the base name weren't open, the disambiguation should be 文 (disambiguation) or Wen (disambiguation), not 文 (currency) or Wén (currency). There is no need to use a parenthetical other than (disambiguation) on a disambiguation page title, and the Disambiguation Project also works to "fold" the exceptions back in to the "main" disambiguation page if they've been so splintered. The guidelines for use of Chinese characters is disambiguation titles should follow the guidelines for use of Chinese characters in article titles, whatever those are. -- JHunterJ 17:20, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've proposed Category:Articles_with_links_needing_disambiguation for deletion because I don't see how such a category would be useful (since it doesn't indicate which links on the page need disambiguation) and the effort spent in maintaining such a category would seem better spent elsewhere (such as in the activities of this project.) I'd appreciate anything people here had to add to the CfD. --Sapphic 18:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(from the CfD page): Actually that is not true. The links that need disambiguation are marked by a {{dn}} -- which I believe is the only way that the category should be added to an article. Of course, the category itself should explain this. older ≠ wiser 19:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Increased scope for this project

I suggest that the scope of this project be expanded to include articles listed in [[Category:Articles with links needing disambiguation]], since some of the articles listed there have links to disambiguation pages that themselves have only a few incoming links — so they would never show up on most lists (such as the one at WP:DPL) that are ranked in terms of how many incoming links they have. The type of disambiguation needed for articles such as the one on Zeenat Aman (which "St. Xavier's School" did she attend?) is of a very different (and idiosyncratic) variety than the ones currently covered. I think adding an article-centered branch to the currently disambiguation-page-centered core of this project would help the overarching goal of reducing the number of links to disambiguation pages, by addressing both sides of the issue in complementary ways. --Sapphic 00:28, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The category is linked at WP:DPL, by the way. Dekimasuよ! 16:31, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Where? I can't find it there. In any event, I still think the scope of this project should be expanded. Currently, the only pages that technically fall within the scope of this project are disambiguation pages, but we should include pages with links to disambiguation pages as well, since that is what we're usually editing most of the time. --Sapphic 18:32, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)

I thought it might be of interest to members of this WikiProject when dab pages are proposed for deletion. If not, please indicate so and I'll refrain from adding such notifications in the future. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 21:20, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is OK to alert interested parties familiar with disambiguation. If there turn out to be a lot or high frequency, it migh make sense to have a sub-page. I rescued the Eliza Stewart disambiguation page. For the others, which consist of only two red links, I can't get too worked up about them. older ≠ wiser 22:05, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I pulled the {{prod}} off a couple where there are a lot of links to the resulting pages. Silly as they look these pages can be useful in the disambiguation process. Yes they are red links, but we want them to be the right red links. —  Randall Bart   Talk  22:34, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I replaced the remaining prods with {{db-disambig}} and added that to the other ones too. Silly as those pages look, they are also not useful in disambiguation, since there are no articles to disambiguate. That's why that speedy criterion is there. -- JHunterJ 11:41, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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