User talk:Necrothesp/Archive 4

Note that if you leave a message here then I will usually answer here, since I think it is more useful to have a complete discussion in one place.

Sir John Maxwell

John Maxwell's son James married my "first cousin twice removed", Lydia Place. My mother as a child use to visit him at his home where he apparently owned a German Shepherd. He died in 1968. Lydia's father Robert Place was also in the Manchester Police Force as a Chief Inspector. About ten years ago I went to the Police Museum in Manchester and the curator gave me a few copied documents from both of their records including his letter of reference from school and resignation letter. Also some photocopies of photos of John Maxwell one of which with Winston Churchill ca. WWII I believe. I have some more info if you like and you can email me at michael _sharpe@hotmail.com cheers Mike —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.183.175 (talk) 01:44, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Company Police

What countries allow company police besides the US? Equinox137 04:27, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the term used to be used in the UK and Canada for security guards working at large factories. A different usage, but still worthy of a section. -- Necrothesp 11:57, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good. Equinox137 06:17, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

user 88.104.33.124

See also my note at wp:an for some of this user's other IPs. Trying to get this user to reach consensus seems difficult. Anyway, that's me for the night. Regards, Mr Stephen 00:18, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Standpipe

Thanks for your contributions to Standpipe. --CPAScott 18:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Cartitza

I am dismayed you have edited Whiteway from the notables site.

He is certainly notable according to the police and the courts. It may be that he is notable for the wrong reasons - but that is just as it is. Bamfylde Moore Carew was a rogue - but I guess he is more acceptable because of the passage of time.

So why did you belete Whiteway when his schooling and his misdemeanors are a matter of record ?

And by the way another notable is missing - Lord Donald Stokes - former boss of British Leyland at a very challenging time.

Look forward to your reply.

I didn't remove him! Check the edit history. However, it does help if living people have an article before you add them or people will likely assume the worst (school articles are notorious for vandalism, and adding fictitious or non-notable people or non-alumni to the alumni list is a common form of it). Carew, on the other hand, has an entry in the Dictionary of National Biography. -- Necrothesp 10:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

NBCI - wow!

You're not going to believe this, but I was actually making the same disambig at the exact same time as you were!! I thought my edit conflict was my own due to double-clicking 'save'. Sorry for stepping on your edits - Alison ☺ 01:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Weird coincidence! -- Necrothesp 09:04, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Oldham/metropolitan Borough of Oldham

Since you've become involved in the Oldham/Met. Borough... categorisation debate I thought I'd let you know we're having a vote on it: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_June_9#Oldham. I'm trying to contact everyone involved so it's a proper consensus. 88.104.55.249 23:12, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Oldham

I'm disappointed to see you voted against the name change. The problem is that the people who are against the change are the same people who don't value the integrity of geography - to them there is no fundamental difference between Oldham and the metropolitan borough, and they are the same people who don't see the problem in saying someone was 'born in Greater Manchester' halfway through the 19th century. I think all boroughs that don't explicitly carry city status should be identified with a borough category, and Oldham was merely intended to be the model for that. I think geography should be very precise and clearly explicit, and if it's not I think we will ultimately see the eradication of any usage of English historical geography on wikipedia. The vote is running close, so I'm hoping you will reconsider and vote for a comprehensive and accurate geographical system. 88.104.86.73 18:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

While I agree that post-1974 counties should not be used for pre-1974 subjects I do not think that is relevant here. People born in one of the constituent towns of the MB of Oldham will still be categorised according to their town of birth, which is also a subcat of Lancashire. -- Necrothesp 00:03, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Torrens-Spence

I've never heard such BS in all my life!--Vintagekits 15:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Try keeping a civil tongue! Your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's. -- Necrothesp 16:20, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Blundells

Necro - please can you explain the matter of removing an external link? Is this a wiki thing? And the reason for me putting "convicted" and "London" is that this is factually correct. What are the reasons for these two changes? I'm just trying to get facts straight, and of course learning the Wiki thing.

Thanks

Cartitza

Hi. Wikipedia should if at all possible link internally, not externally. If an article is later written about this gentleman and you've linked to an external article then this article won't link to him. Prefer writing an article about him with a link to the external source than just linking directly to that source. As far as "convicted" and "London" are concerned - the simple fact is that they add nothing to the list. If he wasn't convicted then he wouldn't be listed as a cocaine dealer (it would be an unsubstantiated allegation and therefore would be removed); and why London? Did he never set foot outside that city? I doubt it. It's only a list and lists don't need huge detail, since their main purpose is linking to other articles. -- Necrothesp 19:33, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Theresa Sparks

Oh. Thank you for pointing that out. I wasn't aware of it. Best wishes! Queerudite 22:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Mutawa and law enforcement moves

I understand your trepidation about my moves on the larger aricles, I rethought that after I did that. On the stubs, I wholly disagree, there should be a parent country article before there are two-sentence stub articles on individual organizations, or poorly written List of police stations in some city articles. About Mutawa itself, I completely disagree as there are already three additional ones-Mutaween, Mutawaeen and Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice. Surely you're not saying we need all four articles? English language users on the English language Wikipedia need to find the articles under an English name or or English-accessible parent article. Chris 02:53, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I have kept most of the stubs as is in any case. But please note that by just moving some articles to "Law enforcement in..." you have created a rather confusing article, as they are not about law enforcement in anything, but about a specific aspect of law enforcement in that country. I agree all countries should have an outline article, but it should be a general outline and not focusing on any particular aspect or agency. The Mutawa article may be about an aspect of law enforcement in Saudi Arabia, but it is not about law enforcement in Saudi Arabia! And renaming it to Law enforcement in Saudi Arabia just creates a confusing article that implies this body is the only police organisation in that country, which is not the case. -- Necrothesp 14:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Ardingly College

Is there any reason why you left out 'Owen Spencer-Thomas (born 1940), radio and tv journalist, charity fundraiser and Anglican priest' from the list? Jockmacfarlane 19:29, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes. The only people I added were dead! I got them from searching the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. -- Necrothesp 21:29, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Nuns

The category Category:Dominican nuns is perfectly acceptable for both individuals and orders. It's not like either are very large to begin with. ----evrik ^(talk) 04:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Would you care to examine the other similar categories for monks and nuns and reflect on why they don't contain orders? Why should Dominicans be some sort of exception? The categories are specifically designed for individuals and the categorisation is tailored to individuals! -- Necrothesp 19:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

1951 Gillingham bus disaster

Hi Necrothesp. You are off to such a great start on the article 1951 Gillingham bus disaster that it may qualify to appear on Wikipedia's Main Page under the Did you know... section. The Main Page gets about 4,000,000 hits per day and appearing on the Main Page may help bring publicity and assistance to the article. However, there is a five day from article creation window for Did you know... nominations. Before five days pass from the date the article was created and if you haven't already done so, please consider nominating the article to appear on the Main Page by posting a nomination at Did you know suggestions. If you do nominate the article for DYK, please cross out the article name on the "Good" articles proposed by bot list. Also, don't forget to keep checking back at Did you know suggestions for comments regarding your nomination. Again, great job on the article. -- JayHenry 21:35, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much. -- Necrothesp 08:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

On 9 August, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article 1951 Gillingham bus disaster, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Circeus 14:50, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

William Thomas Reay

Hi, glad to see your expansion and new categorisation of Reay, however I am somewhat concerned that a lot of the extra text appears to have been copied straight from the ADB. Can you check the status of what you have done will not jeopardise the status of WP & ensure that no Plagiarism or Copyright issues will result? Thanks, Ephebi 21:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

No, no text has been copied, and I'm puzzled as to why you should think it has. The words are mine and I can really see very little resemblance between my text and the ADB's text apart from in its factual content. The facts of Reay's life are not the copyright of the ADB and it is not plagiarism to use facts as long as the text itself has not been copied. -- Necrothesp 08:49, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Mimico Correctional Centre

Why was the entry for Mimico Correctional Centre removed from the Law Enforcement category?--Jeff Johnston 04:51, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Correctional Facilities of Ontario, Canada

Why was the entry for Correctional Facilities of Ontario, Canada removed from the Law Enforcement category?--Jeff Johnston 04:51, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

List of Fallen Canadian Correctional Workers

Why was the entry for List of Fallen Canadian Correctional Workers removed from the Law Enforcement category?--Jeff Johnston 04:49, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:MOSBIO: People known by a middle name

I have just re-opened discussion on this issue, at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (biographies)#Revisiting_people_normally_known_by_their_middle_name. I am notifying you since you participated in an apparently inconclusive discussion on the same topic in January 2007.

Your thoughts would be welcome. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:42, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Cyprian Bridge

Can you give me a clue as to what needs doing to remove the {clean up}} tag - I've started (see my edits before this one) but difficult to gauge if I am making it better or worse Aatomic1 08:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Would you still oppose removal of {Cleanup|date=August 2007}}? Aatomic1 15:12, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

DYK

On 26 August, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Polish Resettlement Corps, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 20:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of International Chaplains Association

An article that you have been involved in editing, International Chaplains Association, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/International Chaplains Association. Thank you. Springnuts 11:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Academic titles

The section on academic titles doesn't actually say that initials signifying degrees should not be included (though I personally agree they shouldn't), simply that academic titles such as "Doctor" or "Professor" "should not be used before the name in the initial sentence or in other uses of the person's name." [Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28biographies%29#Academic_titles](italics added)

I agree your interpretation is preferable. Can we write this into the policy? Reginald Perrin 22:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't specifically say, but it is implied, since the example re Isaac Asimov doesn't give his PhD as a postnom, but in descriptive text later, whereas Stephen Hawking is listed with the postnoms representing his honours. It probably does need to be made clearer. -- Necrothesp 23:27, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Freddie and the Dreamers

I think that was a bogus close, but it's too minor a point to make a fuss about - would you agree? I expect there will be other POV issues coming up in the editing of that article - as this clearly is - so would appreciate your keeping an eye on it for any further such debates or debacles! Alas, the American political season is way, way, way too long - eventually editing will get into better perspective, I hope. (And the problem's not confined to that article.) Nice meeting you - always good to run into someone who can cut through rhetoric to the essence. Tvoz |talk 01:56, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's one of my better titles... and perhaps prescient. Time will tell. I'm showing my age, I'm afraid - I do remember that other Freddie from my youth - glad to see they have a wiki page! Cheers Tvoz |talk 15:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Paul Whitehouse (not the comedian)

Why do you prefer "Paul Whitehouse (police officer)" to "Paul Chapple Whitehouse", as the title of this article? Paul Whitehouse is no longer a police officer and as chair of the GLA has a new and highly notable and significant role. If you have good reasons, then perhaps you could amend the DAB page and the DefaultSort template also. Vernon White ^{. . . Talk} 19:36, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

He is not known as Paul Chapple Whitehouse, but as Paul Whitehouse. Article titles should reflect the name used by the subject. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people): "Adding middle names, or their abbreviations, merely for disambiguation purposes (that is: if this format of the name is not the commonly used one to refer to this person): not advised." As to using "police officer" in the title, he was one for 38 years and held the highest possible rank in the service for eight of them, which makes it the best disambiguator by far. -- Necrothesp 00:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for putting me right. I think there are many breaches of this policy: Charles G. Henderson and Gilbert Hunter Doble spring to mind. I believe than neither was usually called by the WP title givn to their articles. Vernon White ^{. . . Talk} 20:47, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

There are indeed. I used to use middle names as disambiguators myself until I read the convention. But thinking about it, it does make sense, as it sticks to the "use common name" convention. -- Necrothesp 02:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Generals..And Admirals, too

In the US there are three categories of officers: "Junior" O-1 through O-3, senior (O-4 through O-6), and general (O-7 up). They are called "generals" because they were supposed to be able to command anyplace regardless of specialty. Nodays, I'm not so sure about putting an Admiral Dentist in charge of a fleet! General Officer agrees with both of us, I think though tends to favor your idea. I don't like having more than one category for all officers. "Flag Officer" is okay with me, I suppose, but sounds a bit contrived. But see http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/tr~rk-go.html, and http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fr~nav.html. It's not all that unusual. Student7 17:48, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that there is no term that would be appropriate to all countries. In the United Kingdom, for example, "general officers" is only used in the Army and Marines and "flag officers" only in the Navy. "Air officers" is used in the RAF. This, with variations (e.g. Canada does have air force generals), is the same in most of the Commonwealth. British Army brigadiers are not general officers; Royal Navy commodores are not flag officers. Field marshals are not really general officers either. Again, this is the case in many Commonwealth countries. And that's just one group of countries - other countries use other systems of terminology. Whereas "generals" and "admirals" are appropriate for almost all countries, other classifications aren't. -- Necrothesp 08:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Richard Gough (Royal Navy rating)

Just curious why you moved Richard Gough to Richard Gough (Royal Navy rating)? That dab doesn't make sense to me, though I'm not a naval expert. Wouldn't Richard Gough (sailor) be more appropriate? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 06:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, there seems to be a tendency to disambiguate military personnel using their specific service (e.g. British Army officer, Royal Navy officer), and "Royal Navy rating" is the technical term for what he was. But I'm not really bothered what it's called as long as it's not Richard Gough (navy), the title I moved it from, since he isn't and wasn't a navy! -- Necrothesp 08:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Totally agreed - he wasn't :) But does "sailor" work? A quick search shows that there are several pages named that way, like Jack Crawford (sailor). I think I'll move it again, unless you object. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Fine by me. -- Necrothesp 14:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Ian John McKay

Message received. Thank you. What are your feelings considering disambiguation relating to "I. McKay"? e.g. Ian McKay (soldier); Ian McKay (footballer); Ian McKay (critic)? Buch. --Usrbuchfeld 17:58, 1 October 2007 (UTC)