Talk:Capsaicin

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Surely it should be chilli peppers throughtout this article? Not Chile!

Yeah, that's correct, Chile is the country. I have a question as well - can eating chillies cause intestinal pain, or was that just me suffering food poisoning? 80.43.29.109 17:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, the term chilli denotes Chilli con Carne (Chile with Meat) or the mystery spice mixture used therein. Although Chile is a country, chile (e with accent grav) denotes the berries of any plant in the genus Capsicum.Sean 21:25, 16 October 2006 (PST) and 20:43, 17 October 2006 (PST)

Could menthol ease the pain/heat of Capsaicin?

How much capsaicin

How much capsaicin (i.e. from chilis) has to be eaten before ANY endorphins are released? Chiss Boy 18:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fatal Doses

isin't pure capsaicin enough to kill you?

This is mentioned in the article. "In large quantities, capsaicin can be a lethal poison. Symptoms of overdose include difficulty breathing, blue skin, and convulsions." -- Wapcaplet 18:21, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but pure capsaicin doesn't necessarily mean that it's deadly, just a large amount of it. If I were to put a small drop of pure capsiacin hot sauce, it should just be extremely painful and really really really hot. I don't know what the Scoville rating was for the hottest thing i've had, but it probably wasn't more than 100,000, and it was extremely hot (I'm no stranger to hot foods, and I was in a great deal of distress for at least five minutes, and even after it hurt like hell). With pure capsaicin being 15-16 million Scoville units, it would be painful, but probably not deadly unless you downed like 100ml of it. Note, though, that this is just my best educated guess. Someone should verify this by getting a culinary expert or a chemist/biochemist to give their two cents. Mk623SC20K 14:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I know capsaicin is used as a pest repellent for, from two-legged to eight-legged pests(Ha Ha). And as Eurekalert says it also tells Prostate Cancer cells to cease reproducing themselves, but I haven't heard of anyone being killed just by eating capsaicin.Sean 20:58, 17 October 2006 (PST)

Toxicological Data on Ingredients: Capsaicin, Natural: ORAL (LD50): Acute: 47.2 mg/kg [Mouse (CAS no. 404-86-4)]. DERMAL (LD50): Acute: >512 mg/kg [Mouse].

The above line is from an MSDS sheet. It also says that serious overexposure can cause death, but calling it a poison is a bit strong, I think. I have edited the main article to reflect this. I have also removed the Indian Infanticide reference, since the only citation I can find on it is on other online encyclopedias (copyvio?). --Mdwyer 04:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Endorphins

I was under the impression that the release of endorphins due to capsaicin exposure was fact, not theory.

Gardenweb

"When your body's nerves feel the pain induced by the chemical on these cells, they immediately start to transmit pain messages to your brain. Your brain receives these signals and responds by automatically releasing endorphins (the body's natural painkiller)."

Chileseeds

"Endorphins are a class of neurotransmitters produced by the body and used internally as a pain killer.

This class of compounds are similar in their action to opiates, attaching to some of the same receptors in the brain. They are a strong analgesic, and give a pervasive sense of happiness. They are proteins, and due to their many different types and their complexity, the release of endorphins lowers the blood pressure. Endorphins are best known to those who exercise a lot, and give rise to what is known as the 'runner's high'. Their release is caused by all pain, including that caused by chiles. Thus a dose of hot chiles will cause the release of these compounds, without any permanent harm."

I've seen this idea in many places, and it is expressed as a well known fact rather than theory. Where would I find information that suggests that it is only a theory?

Currently, the reference for endorphin release bc of capsaicin is a press release for a capsaicin nasal spray. Quick googling didn't turn up anything much better. We should find a source that is better for this claim. 140.247.240.170 00:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed using vodka as solution for burning. Light alcoholic beverages like beer may or may not work, I don't know. Liquors are guaranted to greatly increase the burning sensation - widening blood vessels, making absorption much easier. The amount removed by drinking vodka doesn't nearly make up for the effect caused by alcohol combined with capsaicin. (certain kinds of peppers in Bulgaria are forbidden to be served with alcohol for this very reason.)

Question of Wording

I wanted to post discussion about some wording in the article. The phrasng in quwstion is:

produces an illusion of burning in the mouth

I doesn't make too big of a difference to me, otherwise I would have altered it, but I think illusion isn't the appropriate word.

I think a more effective phrasing would be:

produces the sensation of burning in the mouth

I think this is more appropriate because illusion is something I more commonly associate with something visual.

I'm new at this, though ;).

(CloneArmyCommander 06:46, 15 November 2005 (UTC))[reply]

I agree with this and chose to change it as you said. (Be WP:BOLD!) And in this context, "illusion" seems to imply that it's convincing enough for people actually think their mouth is on fire, and need to be informed otherwise. (I think that's the point where they've overdone the hot sauce a little.) --Indium 10:35, 18 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

69.160.28.71 04:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC) Hmm, I like the illusion phrasing, because it's clearer to me, but sensation *sounds* better. When you say illusion, I know it's a false sensation. But when you say the sensation of burning - OK, it this sensation because of some neurochemical reaction, and am I not actually being burnt, or am I feeling the sensation of burning because my tongue is getting a chemical burn?[reply]

I'd propose adding another line to clarify that no damage is actually occuring.

Internal Inconsistency

Scoville scale states "15 Scoville units is equivalent to one part capsaicin per million." Logically, the maximum value on the scale can then only be 15 * 1 million parts per million = 15.000.000 SCU, no 16 million as the list states. If nobody objects, I'll change the value in the list.

Also see Talk:Scoville_scale#Internal_Inconsistency. --Matthias Bauer 13:10, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The plot thickens - we seem to have no reliable references to show that 15SU = 1ppm, nor that pure Capsaicin is 16e6SU. Until we have a definite value I'm going to leave this edit war. It is quite plausible that someone made an error somewhere and that error has been copied all over the net.

Also see Talk:Scoville_scale#Pure Capsaicin.

njh 16:49, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scoville heat is not measurable precisely enough for the difference between 15 and 16 (or 15million and 16million) to be outside experimental error.129.97.79.144 17:23, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

would not suffer no ill effects?

reword: "would not suffer no ill effects"

drinking milk

To further back up the folk rememdy of drinking milk to alleviate the burning sensation brought on by Capsaicin, here's an interesting website on capsaicin and the other vanilloids:

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/101/features/capsaicin.shtml

and here's a germane exerpt:

"One expects that the long hydrocarbon tail will make capsaicin less water soluble than vanillin. This is indeed the case. Capsaicin is insoluble in cold water, but freely soluble in alcohol and vegetable oils... For relief from a chile burn, drink milk. Milk contains casein, a lipophilic (fat-loving) substance that surrounds and washes away the fatty capsaicin molecules in much the same way that soap washes away grease."

It might be good to add something about Casein helping to wash away Capsaicin in the main article. Also, what about a page on the Vanilloids?

Possible Prostate Cancer treatment

Eurekalert - Pepper component hot enough to trigger suicide in prostate cancer cells

"Capsaicin, the stuff that turns up the heat in jalapeños, not only causes the tongue to burn, it also drives prostate cancer cells to kill themselves, according to studies published in the March 15 issue of Cancer Research."

"According to a team of researchers from the Samuel Oschin Comprehensive Cancer Institute at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, in collaboration with colleagues from UCLA, the pepper component caused human prostate cancer cells to undergo programmed cell death or apoptosis."

Biological reasoning

is Capsaicin as a neural irrtant a way to make fruits of an unriped stage not tasty to animals ? --Procrastinating@^talk2me 00:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

From what I understand, since many animals such as mammals are sensitive to capsaicin and others such as birds are not, it is inferred that the plant has evolved to repel animals that would eat and digest the fruit and seeds, but not the birds that would eat the seeds without digesting them and end up spreading the seeds wherever they excreted them. --Ed (Edgar181) 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have a question........ does any one know what component (e.g. hidrogen, oxigen, etc.) makes the molecule capsaicin hot?

It's really the overall structure that makes capsaicin hot, rather than individual elements such as hydrogen or oxygen. If you look at the table in the article, you can see that small changes in chemical structure can lead to large changes in Scoville heat units. --Ed (Edgar181) 01:00, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Capsaicin high???

Where is the evidence to support this theory? I've never heard of this and couldn't find anything on Google.

From personal experience eating Habanero Chiles, I can tell you that: Yes, eating high-capsaicin containing foods does lead the body to release endorphins thereby giving a "Capsaicin High". (Of course, if your body's not used to Capsaicin you could get a nasty chemical burn on your tongue.) -- User:Sean 20:03, 16 October 2006 (PST)

I would say that in that case, no, you wouldn't get a chemical burn on your tongue - Capsaicin merely creates the sensation of such effects, reproducing the chemical reaction that nerve cells undergo to transmit pain due to heat. Thus, I'd say that while you may not get a chemical burn, you will indeed have a tender tongue, and a lot of pain. Also, I too, from personal experience, enjoy exposing my tastebuds to highly spicy foods, and it does indeed give you what you could term as a 'high'. Of course, this may vary from person to person, and for some things you probably won't find them anywhere on Google. Such as this. 60.234.132.245 09:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can attest that the high feels very much like that given by opium alkaloids, and as endorphins are just endogenous opioids it doesn't take a great leap of logic to see a connection. The same applies with the similarity of a "capsaicin high" and a "runners high" - both are the result of the same biochemical process. This research shows the effect in rats. This paper discusses the effects more broadly. This page does a similar job, albeit with a more guerilla feel. Finally, this press release brings it down to the lowest common denominator, giving a citable source to the guy on the street for the guy on the street (also explicitly tying in the "runners high" comparison). ◄ИΞШSΜΛЯΞ ► 13:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Heat–time curve?

From personal experience, the heat of different foods over time varries. I'd like to know why. For example, habanero peppers don't hit you instantly, but ramp up to an intense fire. Other spices are hot at first, but then die quickly. Is this due to the mixture of the capsaicinoids, to the physical characteristics of the food (e.g., hydrophobic or containing the spicy chemical in cells), or to something else? —Ben FrantzDale 02:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it is due do the percentage of the different capsaicinoids. User:Sean 20:49, 16 October 2006 (PST)

Spiciness?

I've always wondered - What is the point in having 'spiciness' and 'spicy' redirect to this specific article? While it may have something to do with that, it should probably be noted that there are many different things that can cause the same sensation, and I have found not a place that explains how the sensation is induced because of these chemicals. Should there not be a seperate article named 'Spicy' or somesuch, and the like? I'm kind of new here, so bear with me here. Xander T. 10:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You have a point. If you were to bite into a garlic clove, most people would call that spicy, but as far as I know there's no capsaicin in garlic. Then again, maybe that garlic feeling is just zingy or zesty or nippy. Or maybe these are all words to describe the same general sensation, I'm not sure.Mk623SC20K 14:09, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Piperine and zingerone are also spicy, among many other substances. Spicy and Spiciness should definitely not redirect here; I've pointed them at Spice for now. —Keenan Pepper 20:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sugar?

I have read that sugar is the best remedy for capsaicin, better than dairy. Is this true? If so, should this be added to the article? Look at this site: http://www.theepicentre.com/Spices/chile.html 15:20, 2 Nopvember 2006 (CST)

Influence on Diabetes

I removed the text below because it is not very encyclopedic. It needs to be copyedited and the second paragraph needs some citations. --Mdwyer 01:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Suspecting a link between the nerves and diabetes, scientists at a Toronto hospital used an old experimental trick -- injecting capsaicin, the active ingredient in hot chili peppers, to kill the pancreatic sensory nerves in mice that had an equivalent of Type 1 diabetes.Almost immediately, the islets began producing insulin.It turns out the nerves secrete neuropeptides that are instrumental in the proper functioning of the islets.So next they injected the neuropeptide "substance P" in the pancreases of diabetic mice. The results were dramatic.The islet inflammation cleared up and the diabetes was gone. Some have remained in that state for as long as four months, with just one injection. [1]

The researchers SURMISED that the peppers destroyed pancreatic nerve cells. However, since UCLA has reduced the size of tumors 80% with capsaicin, AND tumors have 15 times as much fibrin around them as normal cells AND there is preliminary evidence that protein enzymes could reverse Type 1 diabetes, AND since protein enzymes are able to digest fibrin, THEN the mechanism of action of the capsaicin in diabetes comes into question. It looks like the capsaicin may very well be doing what it does with cancer cells...removes the fibrin.

Biosynthesis of capsaicin

Does anyone know how capsaicin is made in plants? What is the starting material? What enzymes are involved?

Well, as to how Capsaicinoids are made - not a clue - however I remember learning that the nearest naturally occuring chemical compound to Capsaicin is Vanillin. Unfortunately, I don't recall where I read this, otherwise I would add it in the article. Sean 0:15, 7 July 2007 (PST)

Eating this stuff...

Would you be able to eat pure capsaicin?

Answer: Without dieing? yes, unless you eat more than 47.2 mg/kg. Without reacting? Probably no, but if you put a teaspoon of the stuff in your mouth, it has to go one of two ways(well actually one of three ways, but blowing pure capsaicin out through your nose is just to painful to think about), so if you've your mind set on it, you could probably swallow it. But you should apply a surface anesthesic ointment to your rectal area before defecating, as the undigested capsaicin will be painful on the thin skin in that area. -- Jackcall 03:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pure cap would severely blister your mouth. Absolutely do not do it. Skopp (Talk) 04:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks guys, I just wanted to know Wether you could or not. ;)

Birds eyes

Does Capsaicin irritate the eyes of birds? Ariel. 07:59, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question - Computing concentration for Dermal Application as muscle warming agent

I am an R&D director at a company just getting into OTC pharmaceuticals. Does anyone know how to compute the concentration of capsaicin for use in an external ointment or gel (for purposes of muscle warming) if I am using 14% pure Oleoresin Capsicum. I am assuming that is 14% pure capsaicin and it is straightforward. ChuckChuckmmm2 13:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

irritant or inflammatory agent ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray states that capsaicin is an inflammatory agent, not irritant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.87.98.224 (talk) 03:05, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The IPA currently given in the article is not a pronounceable English word. It needs to be amended. — Chameleon 00:52, 5 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cancer

It has long been noted that in Thailand, where lots of spicy food is consumed, there is very low incidence of gastrointestinal cancers, including colorectal and stomach cancers, compared to the rest of Asia, including Japan and China.[citation needed] Mexico also has low rates of the same cancers compared to the USA.[citation needed]

This is contrary to the chili peppers page where it states that they can cause cancer, would anyone object to me deleting this section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DatDoo (talk • contribs) 00:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]