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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by DESiegel (talk | contribs) at 19:33, 5 July 2005 (→‎Oppose). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This is part of Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion/Proposal.

13 (attack pages)

Short articles that serve no purpose but to disparage their subject
  • This proposal reflects actual practice. Such pages are generally deleted with no objects, thus the proposal is to reword policy to match reality.
  • This is to get rid of attack pages. That may sound redundant with deletion criterion G3 (vandalism), but it isn't obvious from either WP:CSD or WP:VAND that creating an attack page is a form of vandalism. That may explain why attack pages tend to end up on VfD.
  • For example, "Susie is a dirt ass trick".
  • If you are unsure about this proposal, consider that there is a proposed test run to try it out for a month.

vote – discuss

Votes

Support

  1. Pburka 4 July 2005 15:28 (UTC)
  2. Mike Rosoft 4 July 2005 15:34 (UTC)
  3. This reflects current practice and should be codified. AиDя01DTALKEMAIL July 4, 2005 15:56 (UTC)
  4. Would prefer without the word 'short' - Naturenet | Talk 4 July 2005 16:35 (UTC)
  5. What Android said. Hermione1980 4 July 2005 17:08 (UTC)
  6. Mr Bound July 4, 2005 18:29 (UTC)
  7. as above. DES 4 July 2005 18:35 (UTC)
  8. Indeed, sadly abuse is common - this needs codification. Oliver Keenan July 4, 2005 18:55 (UTC)
  9. humblefool® 4 July 2005 21:19 (UTC)
  10. NatusRoma 4 July 2005 23:59 (UTC)
  11. Weak support because we do need something like this. But is it specifically ad hominem attacks? Strong support if so. Also, we could probably scratch "short" from that. If somebody wrote an article like HGH quackery about the bully in their second-period gym class, I should hope we could speedy it. (On the other hand, HGH quackery is a necessary article, discussing intelligently and in good detail about a scam.) --Idont Havaname 5 July 2005 00:01 (UTC)
  12. codifying current practice (ad hominem would be better) JesseW 5 July 2005 00:31 (UTC)
  13. (but concur that ad hominem would be better). -Splash 5 July 2005 01:25 (UTC)
  14. Support - if the attack is against a person notable enough to have an article, it can be deleted and put in the requested articles queue. -- BDAbramson talk July 5, 2005 02:10 (UTC)
  15. Since I already do it, I'll support this proposal. Denni☯ 2005 July 5 02:50 (UTC)
  16. Statutory clarification is always a good thing. — Phil Welch 5 July 2005 03:03 (UTC)
  17. mikka (t) 5 July 2005 03:26 (UTC)
  18. I already do this, and have never had an objection.-gadfium 5 July 2005 03:30 (UTC)
  19. Accepted practice. Fuzheado | Talk 5 July 2005 03:53 (UTC)
  20. I believe this generally falls under the no context criterion, but I don't guess codifying this would hurt anything. I would favour adding an example to the proposal, though, such as "e.g. Susie is a dirt ass trick". BLANKFAZE | (что??) 5 July 2005 04:04 (UTC)
  21. This is redundant with "Attention-seeking vandalism: Adding insults..." on WP:VAND, but common enough that we should make it explicit. --Cryptic (talk) 5 July 2005 04:33 (UTC)
  22. Easier than follwing the vandalism route. Harro5 July 5, 2005 05:52 (UTC)
  23. FCYTravis 5 July 2005 06:49 (UTC)
  24. Xoloz 5 July 2005 06:55 (UTC)
  25. I think it's useful to make this explicit. --G Rutter 5 July 2005 09:07 (UTC)
  26. reasonable proposal. JoJan 5 July 2005 09:12 (UTC)
  27. Support. I think that pure attack pages are almost valid speedies anyway under the "pure vandalism" rule, but I think making this one firm is a good idea. Sjakkalle (Check!) 5 July 2005 11:03 (UTC)
  28. And not just short ones. —Theo (Talk) 5 July 2005 11:08 (UTC)
  29. Support, obviously. -- Schnee (cheeks clone) 5 July 2005 12:32 (UTC)
  30. Support. — Ram-Man (comment) (talk) July 5, 2005 14:33 (UTC)
  31. I don't oppose this, but it seems like needless instruction creep for something so obvious. Angela. July 5, 2005 14:37 (UTC)
  32. I've always thought they should be speedyable, anyway. — Bcat (talk | email) 5 July 2005 15:48 (UTC)

Oppose

  1. No reasonable level of "shortness" defined. Would Criticism of marketing qualify? Would be fine with a clarification to the existing vandalism CSD reason, but we don't need a vote on that - just someone to suggest phrasing on the WP:CSD talk page. -- Netoholic @ 5 July 2005 00:50 (UTC)
    Criticism of marketing would clearly not qualify; it analyses marketing before disparaging it. That article just needs a big chunky {{NPOV}} or similar on it. -Splash 5 July 2005 01:25 (UTC)\
    It's the "serve no purpose" phrase which scares me. Any politically-motivated admin might interpret that very broadly. "Analyses" might be interpretted as simply a lead-in to the disparaging part, negating the protection you think that phrase provides. -- Netoholic @ 5 July 2005 02:43 (UTC)
  2. Weak oppose only because I think that WP:VAND should be updated instead. JYolkowski // talk 5 July 2005 00:52 (UTC)
    Agree. Personal attacks posted as articles should be defined and covered in Wikipedia:Vandalism, which then carries over to the existing CSD covering vandalism. -- Netoholic @ 5 July 2005 02:41 (UTC)
  3. Changing vote to oppose in protest of User:Radiant!'s vote-tampering. This election is no longer legitimate. — Phil Welch 5 July 2005 10:18 (UTC)
  4. Instruction creep. We already delete personal attack articles, don't need a rule to tell us. See also Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion/Proposal/Z. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 5 July 2005 15:42 (UTC)
    I for one object to speedy deletion in the absence of an explicit rule authorizing an admin to do so. We shouldn't be speedying such pages under the current CSD, and they shoudn't wait for a VfD. DES 5 July 2005 16:31 (UTC)
    Airing a defamatory statement on a discussion forum where it is broadcast to a wider range of viewers than might otherwise see it is contributory defamation. We don't put CSD before the law. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 5 July 2005 17:02 (UTC)
    Most attack pages are not defamation in a legal sense. A statement of opnion is not defamation. and even statements of purported fact that might be technically defamatory probaly do not expose us to liability as long as they are clearly attributed, and we don't try to keep them out. But once we have a policy of removing such, we could in theory be liable for ones that get through.`Besides, defamation on user pages or talk pages (which happen quite often and are not subject to this policy) are at least as much "contributory defamation". In any case my point was not to permit these to stay, but to make our policy explicit so that we don't depend on unwritten extensions of CSD. DES 5 July 2005 19:33 (UTC)
  5. Acegikmo1 5 July 2005 19:25 (UTC). An article about someone who is widely hated and whose author expresses such a negative bias can be turned into a good article; it should not be deleted.
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