Talk:Silesia

Earlier discussion:

Back to reversion war. Page is protected again. Earlier talk archived. Kosebamse 11:55, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Current version of the Silesia intro

This is the current version of the intro, based on earlier discussions, introducing all important and non-controvercial facts, accepted at least by Wik and caius2ga.

Silesia (Silesian: Ślonsk, Ślunsk, Polish: Śląsk, German: Schlesien, Czech: Slezsko) is a historical and geographical region with over 10 million population in southwestern Poland and the northeastern Czech Republic, located along the upper and middle Oder/Odra river and along the Sudeten mountains. Upper Silesia is divided into 2 Polish provinces, Silesian Voivodship (capital Katowice) and Opole Voivodship (capital Opole), and one Czech province, the Silesian-Moravian Region (capital Ostrava). Lower Silesia is divided into 2 Polish provinces, Lower Silesian Voivodship (capital Wroclaw) and partly Lubusz Voivodship (capital Zielona Gora).

Because of its rich history the region has produced a unique cultural mix based on the local Silesian elements with strong Polish, Czech and German influences. Today the region is inhabited by Poles, Silesians, Germans, Czechs and Moravians. History of Silesia is connected with history of the four nations and countries: Poland, Bohemia and Germany.

In the middle ages Silesia was an object of Polish-Czech rivalry but also with many ethnic Germans settling here. It was a province of the Bohemian Kingdom from 1348 to 1742, although a small portion became Polish in 1443. In 1742-1763 most of Silesia was seized by Prussia in the Silesian Wars, and organized into the Prussian provinces Upper and Lower Silesia until 1945. After World War I half of Upper Silesia, and after WWII most of Silesia was ceded to Poland. During WWII all of Silesia was part of Nazi Germany and the Germans murdered or expelled most Poles and Jews (see concentration camps, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Gross-Rosen); after WWII most of the Germans were expelled from Poland and Czechoslovakia (Expulsion of the Germans).

I would agree to that. --Wik 20:47, Nov 28, 2003 (UTC)

We have also to convince others, and wait a while for the comments and maybe some improvementsCaius2ga 20:53, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Is it OK to say History of Silesia is connected with history of the four nations and countries: Poland, Czechia(Bohemia), Germany and Austria.Caius2ga 20:54, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Lubusz voivodship is not currently considered part of Silesia, but an entity on its own. There is a reason why people were demonstrating for one Lubuskie voivodship and screaming we are not Poznaniaks, but Lubuszans.

Second, I don't think that intro is good. Tired of explaining why, though.

Third, FIVE nations: Hungary was involved (temporarily) in SIlesia too (Mathias COrvinus). Or SIX if countinng Moravia. Or SEVEN if counting PRUSSIA (after all, if separately Austria and Germany, then why not split Germany later. Mentioning Austria and Germany in pre-XIX century context is IMHO absurd) szopen

Germany and Austria - OK, I have returned to the version agreed by my and Wik.

Three books in my possession show maps and texts claiming that south portion of Lubuskie is part of Silesia today:

Stefan Mizia, Historia Śląska. Popularny zarys dziejów, Wydawnictwo Rzeka, Wrocław 2000
Lech Szafraniec, Śląsk Dolny, Górny, Opawski, (no date/publisher)
Śląsk, in: Encyklopedia Historii Gospodarczej Polski, Warszawa 1980

Caius2ga 13:37, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

False statements in the Nico version

Silesia (Polish Śląsk, German Schlesien, Czech Slezsko) - BIASED title

the first line should also mention the region name in the Silesian language: Ślonsk, Ślunsk -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

is an historical region in east-central Europe, located along the upper and middle Oder/Odra River, in what is now southwestern Poland and with parts in Germany and the northeastern Czech Republic. - FALSE and offending statement

Silesia is not olny historical but also a geographical and ethnographical region. Silesia lies in Poland and Czech Rep. and not in Germany (the goerlitz portion of Lusatia was only temporarily joined to Silesian province). Silesia lies IN Poland and Czechia, and not WHAT IS NOW - offending words. -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Silesia belonged to Poland in the middle ages. - FALSE statement

Silesia belonged to Poland in Middle Ages and in modern Times and it belongs now. Portions of Silesia belonged to Poland all the time. -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Ties with Poland gradually decreased over time, - FALSE statement

Silesia had many ties to Poland (political, economical, eclessiastical, ethnic and cultural) and it is not true they were decreasing. It is true the ties were decreasing in some times, increasing on other times. -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

and the province was a Habsburg domain from the 16th to the 18th century. - FALSE statement

Although it is true that most of Silesia belonged to the Habsburs, it fails to say about the Czech Kingdom. Significant portion of Silesia belonged to POland. -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

In 1742 most of Silesia was seized by Frederick the Great of Prussia in the War of the Austrian Succession. - FALSE statement

Silesia was seized in the three Silesian wars - this statement is misleading. -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

This part of Silesia composed the Prussian provinces Upper- and Lower Silesia until 1945. - FALSE statement

this part of Silesia was called the Silesian province until WWI. After WWI it was divided into the provinces of Lower Silesia and Upper Silesia. portions of both provinces were ceded to Poland and Czechoslovakia. -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

After World War II nearly all of Prussian Silesia was annexed by Poland, and most of the German population (which had formed a majority prior to the war) was expelled. - FALSE and BIASED statement

It is false to say about the German majority, which cannot be proved at any time. Although before WWII there was a German majority in the German portion of Silesia, there was a Polish majority in the whole region. Additionaly it very biased to ignore Poles and Jews expelled and murdered ny the Nazis during WWII -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The remainder of Silesia remained under Austrian control, and today forms part of the Czech Republic. - FALSE statement

There were portions of Silesia outside the Prussian controll which belonged to Poland and Bohemia (in personal union with Habsburgs Austrian ). The Habsbug part of Silesia was called the Czech/Bohemian Silesia long into the 19th century. In 1920 it was divided between Poland and Czechoslovakia. Additionally Czechoslovakia took part of the German Silesia. -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

In the Polish dialect spoken in Silesia, the region is also known as Ślonsk or Ślunsk. - FALSE statement

In standard Polish and Polish dialects in Silesia the name of the province is always Śląsk. These names nentioned here: Ślonsk and Ślunsk are the names of the region in the Silesian language, which is constanly ignored and vandalised by Nico. -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)

To summarize: ALL statements in the Nico version are FALSE and should be removed -- Caius2ga 13:31, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)