Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shia view of Umar ibn al-Khattab

Shia view of Umar ibn al-Khattab

Another of Striver's attempts to use Wikipedia as a Shi'a soapbox. The Shi'a view of Umar is well-represented in the current version of the Umar article. The only material missing from the Umar article, but present in this one, are the cut-and-pasted hadith, or oral traditions, lifted from other websites. Hadith are often of dubious historical value and should not presented as "true" without further qualification. Zora 10:19, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Coment Smear campaign - Everything in that article is not represented in the Umar article. The Umar article contains a mere stup of what and why shia belive as they do.
Delete without looking at the relevant articles in a lot of detail, the approach adopted by this author presents all sorts of problems. Ultimately, with every controversial figure, we could end up having seperate pages for supporters' views and detractors' views. Anything useful should be moved to the main article on Umar. PatGallacher 11:51, 2005 July 17 (UTC)
Comment Oh, aint that a great argument: "lets delet the shia pov, otherwise, it might spread"
Not delet I dont get you folks. First we had a Shia version of him on the main page, but that could not be tolerated, so we moved it to its own article. Now you want to delet it to? --Striver 15:21, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Its a good article showing what the Shia's think of Umar, what is wrong with that? --Ya Ali 19:27, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It does seem that Zora, having tried to keep most of the Shia material from the main article, is now trying to delete the separate article that was created in response. The current Shia view of Umar ibn al-Khattab is, however, bloated, and in serious need of attention. At the moment it virtually reproduces the main article, and adds the relevant material. It should be cut down to what it says: the Shia view. Biographical information can be found in the main article. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:23, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Merge whatever isn't copied back into the original Umar article. After comparing the pages, it seems redundant. Sasquatch′↔Talk↔Contributions 17:51, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Coment I agree with you 100%. Problem is, Zora does not. She does not want stuff that shia and Sunni agree that Umar did on the main ppage, simply because it ruins her prose or since it "does not fitt the general sunni view of Umar". So i have no other chooise than reetell his biography, with the part she refuses to have on the main page. If she wants to add those episodes on the main page, i whold be delighted...

Keep. "I disagree with the religious viewpoint described by this article" ain't enough for deletion, and the topic is certainly one on which there is ample non-original research.Nandesuka 18:00, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per PatGallacher; the Umar article is the place to present varying views about Umar. If you can't agree on how to do that fairly, the solution is to find a compromise, not to create a new article. Dcarrano 18:48, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
Merge next year. ~~~~ 20:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
POV fork; Shia views are already mentioned in Umar, while a hadith-by-hadith summary of Shia arguments (or indeed Sunni ones) is unencyclopedic. Delete. - Mustafaa 23:35, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

coment I could agree to not quote all hadith, but i want all events to be fully described, not just present what Shia think of him, but WHY and WHICH events is the source for our belife.