Talk:Fur
Hi Rosemary. Fur is in fact popular in cold countries, and it's an overstatement to say a majority of Canadians oppose fur.
We can see that fur is popular simply by noticing that it's still sold and people buy it, e.g. my mother and my aunts have fur coats. I think my aunts would object to being called "historical", but that's beside the point since my sister-in-law and a few cousins also have fur coats, so the popularity has crossed the generation gap. If I lived in Montreal instead of Tokyo, I'd probably wear a fur hat in January. You'll find similar fashion trends in Scandinavia, Russia, and even Mongolia.
Second, most Canadians do not oppose fur. There may well be a majority that favors humane treatment of animals and the protection of endangered species, but that does not mean that a majority actively opposes fur. After all, I'd say at least 90% Canadians consume animal products each day either by eating meat or wearing leather.
Vincent Vfp15 02:05, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- It is true that some people in Canada wear fur, but they are a small minority. I'll dig up some stats on the percentage of Canadians who believe killing animals for fur is wrong later—I need to get some sleep. Rosemary Amey 06:11, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Only as an example, this government survey shows that in 1992 a significant number of Canadians supported the seal hunt for a variety of uses including fur. Granted, it's not a survey on the specific question of fur use, but it's probably indicative of the attitude Canadians have in general.
- Also, while it may be true that only small minority of people own fur coats, that doesn't mean that people who don't own one oppose the owning of one. Only a small minority of people own a Ferrari, and I do not own one, but that does not imply that I oppose those who do. The Bay wouldn't be selling fur coats if there were no customers to buy them.
- Finally we should keep NPOV. I personally find nothing wrong with wearing fur, but I did not eliminate the statement that there were those who did. Wikipedia is not a forum for championing causes, pro or con, yours or mine. Cheers, Vincent 07:49, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Possible copyright violation
I just removed the following txt becuse it exactly duplicates the text here. If you are the copyright holder or author of this text and can vouch for that fact, we can replace it on the main page.
- Eighty-five percent of the fur industry’s skins come from animals living captive on fur factory farms. These farms can hold thousands of animals, and the practices used to farm them is remarkably uniform around the globe. As with other intensive-confinement animal farms, the methods used on fur factory farms are designed to maximize profits, always at the expense of the animals.
- Painful and Short Lives
- The most farmed fur-bearing animal is the mink, followed by the fox. Chinchillas, lynxes, and even hamsters are also farmed for their fur. Sixty-four percent of fur farms are in Northern Europe, 11 percent are in North America, and the rest are dispersed throughout the world, in countries such as Argentina and Russia. Mink farmers usually breed female minks once a year. There are about three or four surviving kits for each litter, and they are killed when they are about half a year old, depending on what country they are in, after the first hard freeze. Minks used for breeding are kept for four to five years. The animals—housed in unbearably small cages—live with fear, stress, disease, parasites, and other physical and psychological hardships, all for the sake of a global industry that makes billions of dollars annually.
- To cut costs, fur farmers pack animals into small cages, preventing them from taking more than a few steps back and forth. This crowding and confinement is especially distressing to minks—solitary animals who may occupy as much as 2,500 acres of wetland habitat in the wild. The anguish of life in a cage leads minks to self-mutilate—biting at their skin, tails, and feet—and frantically pace and circle endlessly. Zoologists at Oxford University who studied captive minks found that despite generations of being bred for fur, minks have not been domesticated and suffer greatly in captivity, especially if they are not given the opportunity to swim. Foxes, raccoons, and other animals suffer equally and have been found to cannibalize each other as a reaction to their crowded confinement.
- No federal humane slaughter law protects animals on fur factory farms, and killing methods are gruesome. Because fur farmers care only about preserving the quality of the fur, they use slaughter methods that keep the pelts intact but which can result in extreme suffering for the animals. Small animals may be crammed into boxes and poisoned with hot, unfiltered engine exhaust from a truck. Engine exhaust is not always lethal, and some animals wake up while being skinned. Larger animals have clamps or a rod applied to their mouths while rods are inserted into their anuses, and they are painfully electrocuted. Other animals are poisoned with strychnine, which suffocates them by paralyzing their muscles in painful rigid cramps. Gassing, decompression chambers, and neck-snapping are other common fur-farm slaughter methods.
- Austria and the U.K. have banned fur factory farms, and the Netherlands began phasing out fox and chinchilla farming in April 1998. In the U.S., there are approximately 324 mink farms left, down from 1,027 in 1988.
We can't really replace it on the article either, because it's very opinionated. It's an essay, it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article. Rhobite 05:48, Jan 21, 2005 (UTC)
- It's standard-issue animal rights sensationalism, and there's no reason to believe that it describes typical conditions in the fur industry. Rhobite 06:27, Jan 21, 2005 (UTC)
- Some of it, but material such as "The most farmed fur-bearing animal is the mink, followed by the fox. Chinchillas, lynxes, and even hamsters are also farmed for their fur. Sixty-four percent of fur farms are in Northern Europe, 11 percent are in North America, and the rest are dispersed throughout the world, in countries such as Argentina and Russia. Mink farmers usually breed female minks once a year. " is neither POV nor sensationalist, etc. Elf | Talk 20:52, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Cut text not from copyrighted source
I originally submitted the text re: factory farming furs. It's not sensationalist, but accurate and sourced material from PETA's fur fact-sheet (which is not copyrighted, that's why it was found on other fur site). Can I resubmit it? I can delete any emotionally-laden words, but "painful" is really a truthful description when it comes to be electrocuted.
- It's from PETA (here, as you say)--it's almost inherently POV. At a quick glance I don't see anything on their site that says the material is not copyrighted and is in the public domain. Can you provide some info to that effect? And certainly it needs to be edited to be NPOV, not PETA-POV. Thanks. Elf | Talk 18:43, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
As there certainly seems to be a POV dispute already going on here in the talk page, I added the template at the top. I know nothing about the fur industry, but I'm willing to bet the two English external links are biased and I don't read German.
How appropriate is external link on the horrors of fur farming in an article not about fur farming specifically but rather about fur in a broader context? AmyBeth 23:18:57, 2005-07-27 (UTC)