Talk:Albania

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Article clean-up complete.

I took some time to tweak the mechanics of this article, as well as ensure that the content was properly organized. Though this article still needs a lot of sourced content for some of its existing sections, it is currently on the right track towards improvement. In short, I cleaned up the article as much as possible,and wish the best of luck to anyone who can further improve its content.--Taulant23 (talk) 08:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think your edits to the history section were a good idea. They were not. Everything should be summarised here, and linking to specific articles. BalkanFever 08:08, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

So please change them on the History of Albania not on the main page.To much fight over it, BalkanFever.Again,thank you Balkan for you help and your time!--Taulant23 (talk) 09:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

What I mean is that it should still be talked about (a little bit) in this article, for people who don't want to read everything about Albanian history, but want an overview. BalkanFever 09:16, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Well the History part did not help when discussing Albania's new politics, new economy and transportation. Things that most people wont to know about the current development of Albania. Not what hapenned 10000 years ago and what Albania used to be part off.--Taulant23 (talk) 15:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Update Map

The map needs to be updated for Kosovo Dotancohen (talk) 16:58, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiikkiipiki (talk • contribs) 17:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC) 

Albania member of Francophony

somebody ad this information i can not at this point --Andrea stefani (talk) 10:50, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Please do not do this.....

I don't know who added that "Kris Gjika" next to teh Adriatic sea, but it is not correct or appropriate. If youi cliked on the link it connected to the word "Shit". Whoever did this, please do not change it back. This is serious information and not a venting site ( no matter how much you might hate this country). thanks, eneida

Thank you for fixing this. here is when it was added: [1] John Vandenberg (talk) 06:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Bush is the first Presindent (U.S.) to step foot in Albania... ever

It says in the article that George W. Bush is the first sitting U.S. President to visit Albania, and that's true, but he's not just that. He is the only one to ever visit the country, sitting or unsitting, so I was thinking, maybe we can take the word sitting out. I know this isn't such a big deal, and if the person who wrote that doesn't want me to edit it, I won't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.88.184 (talk) 00:06, 9 April 2008 (UTC) I did change it to the first president.Thank you--Taulant23 (talk) 07:51, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Motto

Ti Shqipëri më jep nder, më jep emrin shqipëtar (You Albania give me honor, you give me the name Albanian.) Is this the motto of Albania? Some say that's npt the motto.Where can I find some sources for this?--Taulant23 (talk) 07:54, 26 April 2008 (UTC) George Bush Senior visited Albania a few years ago when he was not in the office. So that makes G.W.Bush the first sitting US president to visit Albania. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.24.147.160 (talk) 20:48, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Add for Legue of Prizeren

Greece which had been awarded the Arta region of Epirus , was determined eventually to take Ioannina as well,the center of Albanian culture in Epirus.pg153 The Balcans 1804-1999 Misha Glenny 1999 ISBN 862070504 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.242.30.64 (talk) 10:57, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Borders

Albania is bordered by republic of Kosovo to the northeast.More than 40 countries recognize Kosovo independence and one of them is Albania. --Thispoems (talk) 18:15, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm really, honestly not trying to argue the Kosovo question here. (Or, stated another way, I'm trying not to argue the Kosovo question here, in the article about Albania.)

In a passage such as this one, which is only trying to describe the geography around Albania, we should try if possible to simply mention that one of the entities surrounding Albania is Kosovo, but ideally without delving deeply into a discussion over the precise status of Kosovo. Such a discussion, if it belongs anywhere at all, should ideally reside in the Kosovo article and its talk page — and as I said in my earlier edit summary, the Kosovo article currently says that Kosovo is a disputed territory, which is why I felt that mirroring that same phrase here was appropriate as a way to keep the geographical description neutral.

My main concern over saying just "Kosovo" is that we've already seen some people inclined to "correct" this to say "Serbia" — which is almost inevitably going to get "corrected" back, quickly leading to an edit war. Saying "the disputed territory of Kosovo" will hopefully be equally distasteful (!) to partisans on both sides — which, of course, is what you sometimes have to do in the name of impartiality.

If you feel it just isn't right for the Kosovo article to describe Kosovo as a disputed territory, I would propose that the right forum for that discussion would be the talk page for that article. Please note, though, that the Wikipedia Arbitration Committee has put a "probation" notice on the Kosovo article (see the talk page) — which I assume means that there's already been quite a bit of edit-warring going on over there, and anyone new who just jumps in and (for example) replaces "disputed territory" with "sovereign state" in the first sentence of the article is likely to get stomped on quickly and messily by admins. Richwales (talk) 21:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest let’s keep it as Kosovo, because Albania does recognize Kosovo as an independent state(so does the rest of Europe,U.S etc).I hope not to see any edit warring because finally we had some peace around here.

For more info please check this website too [2]--Taulant23 (talk) 03:01, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I personally would have no objection to just saying "Kosovo", because anyone who wants more information about the status of Kosovo can easily click on the wikilink to get to the article about Kosovo.

I'm not the kind of person you'll have to convince, however — largely because I don't have any cultural ties to Kosovo, Serbia, or Albania, and I don't have a strongly held position one way or the other regarding Kosovo's status. The question, I believe, is whether some other person out there who is convinced that Kosovo's claim to independence is illegitimate and wrong — a person who believes that Kosovo is still rightly a part of Serbia as passionately as you believe that Kosovo is entitled to be a sovereign state — whether that sort of person will be content to let this article simply say that Albania's northeastern neighbour is "Kosovo". We've already seen that at least one other editor has insisted on saying Albania is bordered by "Serbia", not by "Kosovo". Will that editor, or others like him/her, be content to let the article say "Kosovo" after all? Only time will tell, I suppose. Richwales (talk) 06:59, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

And, indeed, just as I feared would happen, it appears that this same other editor went in again just now and changed "Kosovo" back to "Serbia". I would once again suggest that we try to take a middle ground via a formula such as "the disputed territory of Kosovo". That's what the Kosovo article itself currently says about the status of Kosovo — and it seems factually correct to me, since (as has been pointed out) a sizable number of countries have recognized Kosovo's UDI, while another (also sizable) number of countries have declined to do so and apparently still support Serbia's claim to sovereignty. Again, the Albania article (or, at least, an introductory paragraph that is simply trying to describe the geographical location of Albania) is not the place to have a knock-down, drag-out argument over the rightful status of Kosovo; that argument discussion belongs in the Kosovo article itself, and for our purposes here, it seems reasonable to simply acknowledge (in passing) the fact that Kosovo's status remains in dispute and move on to discuss the proper topic of the Albania article — namely, Albania. Richwales (talk) 17:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I put a note on the Kosovo talk page just now, alerting people over there to this ongoing dispute. Richwales (talk) 00:52, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I saw it, but it's not a smart move.You will create more edit warring.Let's keep it way from Kosovo's article,they have enough problems there.Let's use "a disputed territory" for now.--Taulant23 (talk) 03:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Brewing edit war in Albania article

There is a dispute in progress in the Albania article over how to describe Albania's neighbours. The current text reads: Albania is bordered by Greece to the south-east, Montenegro to the north, the disputed territory of Kosovo to the northeast, and the Republic of Macedonia to the east. The phrase "disputed territory" is wikilinked to the article entitled "Political status of Kosovo".

The dispute, of course, is over precisely how to identify Albania's northeastern neighbour. Different editors have gone back and forth between "Kosovo", "the disputed territory of Kosovo", and "Serbia". Some discussion has taken place on the talk page, but at least one of the editors (the one insisting on "Serbia") has so far rejected requests to participate on the talk page.

My own opinion (for what it may or may not be worth) is that the text in question, on the Albania page, should list the states bordering Albania in as simple and non-inflammatory a manner as possible; any discussion (or argument) over how to characterize the status of Kosovo should be confined solely to the Kosovo article and/or talk page and should not be allowed to spill over into other articles. Since the Kosovo page itself currently describes Kosovo as a "disputed territory", it seems to me most reasonable to use that same phrase when mentioning Kosovo on the Albania page — perhaps in hopes that a phrase that is probably equally distasteful to everyone (!) may be the closest we can get to NPOV. But I'm just one editor, not an admin or any other sort of muckamuck. What do others think? Richwales (talk) 00:47, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Do not mix them plz.--Taulant23 (talk) 03:33, 9 May 2008 (UTC)