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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Abd (talk | contribs) at 23:41, 28 May 2008 (→‎Asset voting: about the Merge possibility. Maybe. But the Carroll connection is more notable.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Asset voting

Asset voting (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Delete. Original research. Neologism. Yellowbeard (talk) 13:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. This article has been created by Sarsaparilla who has been blocked indefinitely. Yellowbeard (talk) 13:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Be careful about this AfD. See Special:Contributions/Yellowbeard. This is an SPA dedicated to AfDing articles that are in some way connected to opposition to Instant-runoff voting, such as the theoretical basis for Range Voting Bayesian regret, the Center for Range Voting, etc. He often is technically correct, for example, CRV was probably not notable when he nominated it. However, many Voting systems articles are about topics well-known in the field, written by experts, and thus, as is common, improperly sourced. Removal of all this material leaves behind a POV imbalance. I'll make sure that relevant editors are informed of this AfD, what has often happened is that nobody familiar with the field notices the AfD. Asset Voting is indeed a recent term, a neologism, but the basic method is very old, it was first proposed by Lewis Carroll in the 1880s. If, on searching for sources, it turns out that the article material belongs elsewhere, what of it that can be established by reliable source, I may change my vote to Merge and Redirect. The modern inventor of Asset Voting is Warren Smith, of the Center for Range Voting, and he is notable in his field, probably should have an article. When Asset voting was created, Sarsaparilla was an editor in good standing, the block had to do with later events. Bringing in an ad hominem argument re an AfD is typical Yellowbeard behavior, see his contributions. Sorry to do that myself, but you really should know, he's sucked a lot of editors into quickly voting Delete without having any grasp of the context and details.--Abd (talk) 14:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Could do with expanding though Ijanderson977 (talk) 14:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete - the article itself supports the idea that it is a neologism and b) that the sourcing is original research. If 3rd party reliable sources were presented, I would consider my position. --87.114.131.46 (talk) 15:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge/Redirect to Center for Range Voting.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 16:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe. The Center is not known for Asset Voting and doesn't promote it, it just happens that one of the founders of the Center re-invented Asset voting, web-publishing in 2004. The Carroll material is far more interesting to me, and has reliable source.--Abd (talk) 23:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Well,, the fifth paper might be about asset voting, I can't tell from the summary. Perhaps Celarnor can help us out. "Asset Voting" refers to candidates receiving votes being able to reassign them as if they were their "assets," an idea which was stated first by Carroll. Focusing on Warren Smith is a mistake. He's a notable voting systems advocate (which might make his papers usable in certain limited ways), and he independently invented it, apparently, but Carroll was there more than a hundred years before.--Abd (talk) 23:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why does it matter who wrote them? If I were to look up all the important papers on string theory, I would find that most of them were by those who created the field. That's only natural. Celarnor Talk to me 21:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Eh? you've pretty much just established it's OR. Scholarly debate is not a single academic publishing unreviewed papers on his personal webspace. Scholarly debate is established by the response of other academics to works published - generally as conference proceedings or in peer review journals or as citations within either of those types of works. What you have selected, in nowway, shape or form represents academia discourse. --87.114.151.195 (talk) 21:41, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment.I've written, in [1], a discussion of what I know about the topic, with some sources. The best source is the paper by Duncan Black that is referenced from the Article. While the term "Asset Voting" was not used by Carroll, he uses quite the same analogy to describe it, candidates may "treat these votes as if they were their own personal property." --Abd (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Then it shouldn't be used - what you describe represents original research and novel synthesis on your part. The source has to make an EXPLICIT linkage, you cannot do it and claim he uses "quite the same analogy". --87.114.139.108 (talk) 09:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Readers of this AfD should be informed that contributions from the range 87.112-87.115 may normally be presumed to be those of the blocked User:Fredrick day, blocked for vandalism and harassment (and, in fact, those actions were from this IP range). I think it a waste of time to debate with blocked socks. I previously struck his comments, here, though I could have deleted them legitimately. He undid the striking. I have made a report to AN/I about these edits; in that report I also refer to the problematic history of User:Yellowbeard, the nominator here. This latter information, however, should not influence this AfD, which should proceed on the merits. I voted Keep because I believe that the article improves the encyclopedia; on pure notability grounds the question of deletion is legitimate, and I have no problem accepting whatever consensus appears here, regardless of who made the nomination. If on review of this, it is decided to delete the contributions of Fd, I consent to the removal of this comment as well.--Abd (talk) 17:51, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This article should be kept since it gives a valuable description of one of the election systems. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Topjur01 (talk • contribs) 14:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment.I posted a neutral notice to an off-wiki mailing list, Election Methods, knowing that many Wikipedia editors knowledgeable about voting systems read that list -- and this is a neutral list. Later, I'll post a link to that notice. In the meanwhile, Wikiproject Voting Systems should be notified as well, I do that later if nobody gets to it before me.--Abd (talk)
  • I don't believe there was canvassing there, Calton. There is a seeking of comment, evidence, and argument from experts, who may be far more familiar with the literature than I or anyone else here. In any case, here is a link to the email:[2]. Canvassers don't normally announce what they have done to the AfD.... but if it is improper, I'm sure that a closing admin can deal with it.
  • Delete Little real world impact or value as judged by uninvolved/unrelated third party sources. Existing sources are mostly tied to this topic's proponent, and not valid here for notabillity... so, delete. And canvassing? Yuck. rootology (T) 19:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, canvassing, Yuck. Did Rootology see any evidence of violation of WP:CANVASS before making this comment? As to the sources, has Rootology looked at the Lewis Carroll sources? I agree, it's easy to conclude that there is too little out there, particularly if you only pay attention to the claims about Warren Smith and the Center for Range Voting. Both of them are now notable, Smith is an expert, and original research by notable experts *may* under some circumstances be usable, with attribution, not claimed as fact. There is a reason why Rule Number One isIgnore all rules: rigid adherence to rules, no matter how good they generally are, can harm the project, and our standard of judgment isn't conformance to guidelines, but community practice and consensus. Guidelines, when well written, tell us what we can, more or less, expect to see when the community decides. I voted Keep, not based on the strictest application of WP:RS but in the interest of having a verifiable, reliable, informative, and interesting encyclopedia. And the purpose of this AfD is to determine if the community agrees. I trust the ultimate decision, particularly given that the fuss is attracting wider attention. AfD is dangerous when only a few rule-bound and distracted editors make snap judgments about topics they know nothing about, based on a wikilawyered nomination by an SPA with an axe to grind.--Abd (talk) 23:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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