Talk:Conspiracy theory
"For a literature version of a conspiracy theory, try The Illuminatus Trilogy by Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson."
And, so far as movies go, why not rent Conspiracy Theory, watch the first half and stop; then rent The Parallax View? --KQ (self-editing) :-)
- Or perhaps "The Manchurian Candidate". A real head-trip conspiracy theory, even if the politics are now fairly antiquated. --Robert Merkel
Do Elvis sightings really belong in conspiracy theory?? Although I guess if I have to ask, nobody will tell me the truth anyway. :-)
- Yeah, even if only humorously.
Removed from parent page, because people don't seriously believe that Bert and ObL are involved in a plot . . . do they?
Osama bin Laden and Bert (of Bert and Ernie) Conspiracy in relation to the terrorist attacks on the United States.
IMHO, we should try to separate "real" conspiracy theories from "conspiracy theory humor" (an interesting, related, but distinct topic). Or is there something I'm missing here? Does anyone really believe anything other than some Bangladeshi nutball protestor (who must have been much wealthier than the average Bangladeshi, admittedly) did a search for "Osama bin Laden" on images.google.com to make a collage for his poster, found the doctored Bert and Osama image, had no idea who Bert was, and just happily went on photoshopping his poster together? --Robert Merkel
Fortunately, there's already a place for the Osama-Bert connection: September 11, 2001 Terrorist Attack/Misinformation and rumors. --TheCunctator
I deleted quite a bit of text from the article (and included it below, complete). I deleted this:
- Consequently, even in the absence of hard evidence, a conspiracy theorist may advance a theory which is supported by facts of which even he is unaware.
I'm not sure what this means; I suspect it just needs to be reworded.
- A conspiracy, once proven to a reasonable extent, is no longer a mere hypothesis.
Well, that's true of anything, eh?
- Hence, conspiracy hypotheses (or "theories" in common talk) are necessarily unproven -- and the majority of such are eventually disproved.
First, the point of the parenthetical comment seems to imply that conspiracy theories are not theories. Well, that depends, of course, on the claims being made by the conspiracy theorist, and the evidence behind them. I don't think that "conspiracy theory" is consistently used so that there are necessarily no conspiracy theories, but only conspiracy hypotheses. In other words, if one were to provide adequate evidence for you and I to establish that a nefarious conspiracy by the Council on Foreign Relations, McDonald's, and Michael Jackson were afoot, but not enough to "prove" it, and in that case we would have a conspiracy theory. Just because it would have moved past that vague stage of being merely a hypothesis, it would not therefore (??) not be a theory. More to the point, my understanding is that not everybody always uses "conspiracy theory" to mean something that necessarily has totally inadequate evidence in its favor. It's not always a pejorative term.
Second, I doubt very much that the majority of conspiracy theories are eventually disproven. I think that most of them are simply dismissed out of hand by experts as absurd and not worth considering. I could be wrong; perhaps the people who study conspiracy theories have studied who has responded to conspiracy theorists and wrote up this research, concluding, "Most conspiracy theories are eventually disproved (according to some standards or other)." --Larry Sanger
A lot of people, everywhere, refer to Freemasonry as a "secret society," but it obviously isn't. You can look up the address and possibly telephone number of your local Masonic Lodge in the phone book, and, especially in the US, most Masons are quite open about their affiliation. I'm not sure what to do about Freemasonry on the list, so for now I'm going to put it right above the heading "Secret Societies." --Alex Kennedy
Could we shift the Arab conspiracy theories somewhere else, and link to it? The point of conspiracy theories is that they're only taken seriously by a small minority. If, as is claimed, they're widely believed in the Arab world, they're a different animal. ---Robert Merkel
- That is incorrect. Some conspiracy theories are believed by millions of people all across the world. Conspiracy theory is certainly mainstream in the Arab world, and many Arab scholars ahve written about this phenomenon. For example, many Arab countries teach about "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in their middle school, high school and colleges in official government approved textbooks. They also teach in the government funded press that Jews hav secretly been murdering Christian children for centuries, using their blood to make pastries. This (sadly) is accepted as a historical fact by a great many Arabs. And what about the central United States, where tens of thousands of white American Christians have joined or support "militias" which preach various conspiracy theories as fact (e.g. the claim that the Geroge Bush has joined with the United Nations to create a New World Order to take over the United States; or the claim that the original America literally no longer exists, and was replaced by the ZOG - Zionist Occupied Government.) This is not merely what a couple of dozen of people believe; this belief is widely accepted. And who can forget the black helicopter conspiracy theories? [[RK]]
Further, their presence here, picking out Palestinians for conspiracy theories, is unfair. There are apparently all sorts of conspiracy theories floating around Africa as to the origin of AIDS. Many in Indonesia think Australia is conspiring to split it up. Eurosceptics have all sorts of conspiracy theories about the EU being some left-wing plot. The anti-globalization movement thinks the WTO is the seat of immense power (when it's really just a creature of governments and the multinational companies that influence their policy). And so on. --Robert Merkel
- The existence of conspiracy theories in various ethnic groups is neither fair nor unfair. It is simply a fact. Did you realize that there is now a substantial and growing section on American conspiracy theories? If you re-read the article you will find this section, which links to many Wikipedia articles on the many conspiracy theories believed by millions of Americans. Does this mean that Wikipedia is anti-American? No, it just means that this article is describing conspiracy theory among United States citizens. Finally, I note that you say there are many other conspiracy theories that this entry does not yet have a section on. Why, then, delete what we already have? Wouldn't it make more sense to add material on the subjects you bring up? Let's be productive. [[RK]]
Does calling something a Conspiracy Theory fit with the principle of NPOV? In my opinion, in practice it has an implicit value judgement that the idea is absurd and only believed by the gullible. -- Khendon
- But there are obvious, objective ways to identify conspiracy theories: the fact that the term has a connotation of being "kooky" is simply a consequence of the fact that most of them are. It is not in itself a value judgment, it has just come to be one for good reasons. In other words, calling something "ridiculous" or "kooky" is a judgment. Calling it a "conspiracy theory" is merely a description (if accurate); if that makes the reader think of "kooky", then sobeit. --LDC
Why isn't the idea that Al Qaeda was responsible for the Sept 11th attacks included in this page? That's a conspiracy theory, surely? -- Khendon
What's the difference between conspiracy theory and urban legends ? The Sex Gum story seems IMHO is more urban legends than a conspiracy theory. I heard the same in France (only difference it was not Israelians but a group of pedophiles). A urban legend reports imaginary facts. A conspiracy theory should have something more : the governement knows but he hides evidences because it's also involved in the conspiracy and some secret message (but strangelly not so secret for conspiracy theorist) has revealed the truth to the Pope John Paul I but unluckily the catholic church is also a part of the conspiracy (to be continued) ....... for instance.
Being French I have the strong feeling that the United States produce more conspiracy theories than most European Countries. Maybe it's related to JFK asssination ? Or maybe it's just that Holywood does good job turning them into blockbusters (MIB). Ericd 22:22 Sep 12, 2002 (UTC)
"Many African-Americans in the US believe that HIV,...." has nothing to do with american this is a worldwide belief (atr least for some).... than americans or russian invented the HIV virus in some biological warfare research and it escaped by mistake. This obviously impossible for those who are some culture in genetics.... I still wonder why there is no conspiracy theory about extra-terrestrial origins of the virus ?
Classyfying conspiracy therory by country is neither fair or neutral hiv conspiracy theory as nothing to do with arab moon landing hoax is not american it's believed by many peoples in Europa and Africa, Araa 51 is worldwide famous.....
Ericd 00:12 Sep 14, 2002 (UTC)~~