Talk:Tokyo Mew Mew

Character Section Redux

Per the on-going peer review, the Characters section is pretty redundant to the plot. Thoughts on going back to the more standard bullet list of the mains, or someone want to tackle a rewrite of the section to make it less repetitive?-- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 04:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I believe you are referring to this comment: "The first paragraph of Characters seems to repeat much of the material from the Plot on the five girls."?
Seems like the problem is only the first paragraph (And probably only the first part: "Tokyo Mew Mew's protagonists ... Red Data Animals.").

If that is indeed the case, I believe that this paragraph can be re-summarised from the list, as it does not seem that the list is repeating the plot.

Do you think this can solve the problem?

G.A.S 05:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

It should. Care to give it a whirl? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I have a half an hour, I will see what I can do. G.A.S 05:21, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I think I am done → Comment please on this? G.A.S 05:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it looks good. Reads better and more naturally. Any thoughts on doing the rest of that section the same?Having sources in there would be a very good thing when it goes for GA or FA. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I could do it, but am out of time right now (Will only have time tonight?). Seems like there is some work left before it is ready for FA, but being good to know that it is close to GA:) It is the best shape the article has ever been in:) G.A.S 05:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Cool, I look forward to it :) They also mentioned it needing more copyediting. I tried doing a bit using that Tony guide. With LoCE practically useless these days, any ideas on getting the whole thing rechecked? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:18, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Mind reading the article out loud? This is actually a good start, just comment problem areas for now. There are also good advice at User:AndyZ/Suggestions and Wikipedia:Writing better articles, but I am sure you have looked at them by now. Maybe another participant at WP:ANIME would be willing to look at it as well (But then again, they could have peer reviewed as well)? Chance is, as it seems from Wikipedia:WikiProject League of Copyeditors/Requests, articles are only a priority once they are actually candidates for GA or FA class, so there will be little use in asking them yet. I will see later if there are still obvious issues. G.A.S 07:07, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, they ignore GA noms too. Had one sitting with them for over a month that was a GAN. :( -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 07:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I have seen copy-editors being approached on their talk page in order to have a FAC pass, but I doubt they appreciate it a lot. But I also think it is not the most thankful work to do, either.

I guess at this stage the most important part would be to get as much external input as possible: Maybe it would be worthwhile to list the article for GAN once this is over, at least we will know if there are further issues before a FAC listing; once it is GA we can list the article at Wikipedia:WikiProject League of Copyeditors/Requests, and hope someone looks at it.

We should ask for additional input at WP:ANIME re possible outstanding issues.

G.A.S 07:43, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Done with the section. Mind having a look at the references? As always, comment is appreciated. G.A.S 21:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Great, thanks. I'll bring in the refs this evening. Meanwhile will post a note to the PR to see if that takes care of things. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 21:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Items for copy editing

From reviewing the article myself, and applying the same standards as when I peer reviewed others' articles, I came to realise that the article is in serious need of a thorough copy edit. I will, for now list the items (or fix them where I can).

The following advice came from the guides listed above.

• Short paragraphs and short sections usually disrupt the flow of an article (occasionally they can be judiciously used to emphasize an important point). Either merge them into another paragraph/section, expand the section with important information, or simply remove the paragraph/section, taking care that you are not deleting an important fact. Paragraphs of one or two sentences often appear short to our readers.
• See also User:Jengod/Some common objections to featured status and how to avoid them.

Other items

• Some sections may need referencing: Plot
• Media section may need an introductory paragraph.
• "The manga series is licensed for English language release by Tokyopop": This should be rewritten in the active voice: "xxx has licensed Tokyopop to release the manga series in English"; but I do not know who has licensed them to do so. (Same issue with the DVDs and 4Kids)
• "With the basics hammered out, the Tokyo Mew Mew series was approved and the project grew." Refer to wikt:hammer out. Is this what you mean?

Please strike out items when they are fixed, I will likewise list new items above.

G.A.S 14:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Media section does not need an intro paragraph, per the MoS and existing standards. The plot does not need referencing. The defacto reference is the primary work. Only interpretive statements in plot sections require referencing. For the copyediting, yes, I agree, but finding one is a near impossibility these days. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thus the use of "may" :) I will attempt to copy edit as best I can, but it may take a while. Maybe we should put in a request at LoCE in any case. Also refer to the new comment in the lead paragraph. G.A.S 06:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I have asked User:Mizu onna sango15 to help me copy edit by reviewing the changes and commenting thereon, so I should be able to copy edit the article myself. G.A.S 06:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 07:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Good job so far, G.A.S, I only had to correct a minor grammatical error or two and the rest look good. Also, per wikt:subsequently's usage notes, it looks like your use of the word is not redundant. Good luck with the second half; let me know when you're ready for me to assist you. :-) Cheers, --Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 22:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC).

I disagree on the suggested rephrasing. All current FLs for episode and chapter lists use similar phrasing. Also, sources rarely say a company licensed a series to so and so (which would not be an accurate phrasing). For active voice, it can just be rewritten as Tokyopop licensed the series for an English language release in North America. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

It was just an example; I have not worked it out yet:). I believe your suggestion would work very well. G.A.S 06:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

No prob :) I've been trying to catch myself with those passive phrasings (the plague of my writing), but missed it here. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I have skipped that paragraph for now, but this is a painfully slow process at the moment: I have only managed to copy edit half a paragraph for now. I will continue later. G.A.S 06:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Good luck. All-in-all, the article is not that bad, especially for a B-class article. Are you trying to reach FA? --Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 22:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the eventual goal is FA. -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 23:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

(←)Everything above the "characters" section have been completed. I am not going to copy edit the character section, as I have written it (Mizu onna sango15, will you please see if anything needs to be done there); but will continue with the section below it. Once this has been done, we could apply for GA status (for feedback purposes) and then FA status:). G.A.S 10:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Y Very nice. I can't really tell you what you're doing wrong here, as everything looks fine at this point. Make certain that problems such as peacock terms, weasel wording, and unnecessary trivia is removed, however (not that I see a lot of this in the article). It is little things like this that can cause many articles to fail GA/FA. Best of luck! --Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 22:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply.

I checked the article against the list of common peacock terms, but the usage of these words are appropriate in all of the cases. The only one that falls in a grey area is "popular" but it is provided in a short quote, and seems to be sourced, so I presume that it is appropriate: at most we could say who consider the songs to be the most popular (I am not sure whether this information is actually available: I presume it is the CD company's opinion).

There is some usage of the passive voice, though I do not believe it constitutes weasel wording in this context, but we are clearing it out as far as possible.

G.A.S 05:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, particularly where it is a direct quotation. Those should be left exactly as said in the source, to be proper quotes. :) (and you are correct, the source doesn't say what determined the songs popularity). I als think a little passive voice is okay, as it sometimes just reads nicer :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 05:43, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I concur. G.A.S 06:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Section break

(←)I had a quick review of the rest of the article; and picked up the following issues:

• It seems that we need to expand the following sections a bit: Manga and Anime: According to WP:SS these sections should be at least twice the daughter article's lead paragraph's length (4 - 6 paragraphs).
• We need to apply the {{Nihongo}} template to the names "Ringo Akai" and "Gato".
• The video games section seems uncomfortably short: Can we add review or other information here?
• The quote seems awkward at its current location: Can we use {{Quote box}} in this case?—"This is useful in articles where you are short on images and want to add some sort of graphic, or you just want to set off an important or interesting quote away from the main text."
• Alternatively, we should integrate the quote into the text and use an excerpt thereof in a pull quote at the beginning of the section (See {{Cquote}}) or {{Rquote}}).

G.A.S 06:01, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I disagree on the first (and I don't see anything in WP:SS that says that?). The daughter article is a list, so the summaries are quite appropriate and there is really nothing else left to add. They are basically the leads of the lists, sans the opening sentences which would be repetitive. The rest are the chapter/ep summaries They also quote meet the MoS requirements for those sections. For the second, I'll have to find their kanji names again unless you have them somewhere? For the third, that's every last drop of information about both games I could find. I hate that the first is so short compared to the second, but that's all I could find at all since neither is licensed. Changed the qoute to the box...what do you think? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

WP:SS#Levels of desired details—"The summary in a section at the parent article will often be at least twice as long as the lead section in the daughter article." It is not mandatory, however. On the second point, I believe they would be here and here(?). On the third point: I like it. G.A.S 07:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

• From the media list I were to create, I found very little information about the video games myself: We could mention that they were only released in Japanese. The first game has an official site: maybe you could translate something from there [1]. I had little success myself (Maybe the translation utilities got better since then). The role playing description of the second game is somewhat vague—For instance: Does it focus on combat? Storyline-driven arcs? Character development? Nonlinear/linear gameplay? Character experience and levels? 2D or 3D? Does the story decide the character the player uses or does the player decide?
• Re Anime: Consider something like "Studio Pierrot adapted Tokyo Mew Mew into a fifty-two episode anime series."→" The episodes are directed by Noriyuki Abe and produced by Studio Pierrot. The anime adapts the first seven volumes of its source material over fifty two episodes." (Adding: Director, statement that it is based on the manga) You could also consider adding (although you probably consider it OR or trivia) a statement about the short introduction of each episode, and by who narrates it (old draft).
• Re Manga: We could add that the first chapter was serialised in Sept 2000, and the last (twenty ninth(?)) in Feb 2003 (Currently the reader might get the impression that each volume was serialised in the magazine, adding amount of chapters)
• G.A.S 17:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I tweaked the manga section and anime sections. Don't think the intro thing is necessary to mention (and we wouldn't want any borderline OR if gonna go for FA). or the second game...um, its an RPG. That's about all I could find out about it. RPGs are generally story drive, as part of the genre, but no idea on all the rest. The only reason it isn't as short as the other is because Ikumi gave that little bit of information on her developing the characters. :( I've also tried translating the official page for the first game, but the poor translators can't figure out the grammar at all and the resulting stuff doesn't make much sense. Be nice if we had someone in the project who could read Japanese for this stuff :P -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 17:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I had a quick look at the online translators: http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/ (Copy and paste the text into the text box, use the second option in the drop down list, and the button next to the text box to translate) and Babelfish gives the best results. Google translate seems to be having a very hard time:(. If this seems to be an issue when the article is put up as a GAC or FAC we could probably ask someone at the wikiproject to help (User:Nihonjoe might be able to help, she translates from Japanese to English on Wikipedia:Translation).

We should probably check the other languages' Wikipedias again, just to make sure we have covered everything important (to test for "comprehensiveness" (Wikipedia:WIAFA no 1(b)).

G.A.S 05:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. We seriously have the best, most comprehensive TMM article out there! A few language ones just have stubs, while some others are all plot and character stuff. On plus, however, two of them yielded a few missing official links that I've added to the article (and that will be useful for sourcing the character list). -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 06:13, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Well done: Consider: After the copy editing has been completed, we are one step nearer to adding the equivalent of {{FAOL}} to some of those talk pages. (That global login will come in quite handy;) ) G.A.S 07:49, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Comments from Scartol

I've completed my copyedit of this article, as requested. Let me say that it is very thorough and well-documented. I believe it's close to GA status. I bristle at seeing sources like Amazon used, but I'm not familiar enough with manga/anime articles to suggest a way around this. Kudos to the editors involved for your hard work. Here are some questions and comments I wanted to pose as I did my copyedit.

• I suggest that the lead follow the structure of the article as a whole. Therefore I recommend that the final lead paragraph focus not on distribution in North America, but rather on reception.

• I've added a paragraph on the reception, but it needs come copyediting. :) -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 16:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• I'm making all of the dashes I see into spaced en dashes, but there's always a possibility that I've missed some. You'll want to check it thoroughly right before sending it to FAC.

  Y Done Firefox has a quite useful "Highlight all" function to do this. G.A.S 16:27, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• I recommend moving the details about the Mew Mews other than Ichigo to the "Characters" section. It will be fine to end the first paragraph of "Plot" with "...the remaining Mew Mews."

  I agree with the change, but will discuss it with my fellow editor first. G.A.S 16:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Due to Kish's failure in doing eliminating the Mew Mews, Deep Blue puts Kish under temporary house arrest – he later rejoins the fight – and orders two more aliens, Pie and Tart to destroy the Mew Mews. This feels like a very minor point. Insofar as the plot summary for the series should only focus on the major highlights, I recommend removing it.

• For future reference: Unless you are quoting an entire sentence, punctuation goes on the outside of a quotation. ("mew aqua", for example)

• It looks like the serial comma is sometimes used and sometimes not. You should go through and standardize it.

  Y Done G.A.S 16:44, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Much of the information in "Characters" repeats description from "Plot". I actually recommend removing the "Characters" section completely, since it's really not necessary. I know WP:MANGA advises including it, but as WP:NOVELS points out, the "Characters" section can make an article feel like SporkNotes. =)

• Whenever you use direct quotations (The Saint Rose Crusaders seek to reshape the "boring grownup world" into a utopia using their "intelligence, philanthropy, and elegance".), you should give a citation to let the reader know where it/they come from.

• Much of the info in the paragraph which begins "As Tokyo Mew Mew became a viable project..." feels very standard. Isn't this what happens with every manga ever made? I recommend only discussing this sort of standard-process information in passing, focusing instead on the more unique details. (Such as the TMM festival in the next paragraph.)

• I removed the sentence about Ikumi holding autograph sessions during the festival, since that's a given for someone launching a new manga.

• Two pieces of theme music were also used for the anime series "My Sweet Heart", performed by Rika Komatsu, was the series opening theme. Confusing. Please clarify.

  Y Done Done, (I think). I inserted a period after "anime series". G.A.S 16:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Sometimes "chimera anima" is capitalized, and sometimes it is not. You should go through and standardize this. Same for "mew aqua".

  Y Done G.A.S 16:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

• Ikumi was asked to name two of the weapons Ringo uses in the game: the Appletick and the Mewberry Rod. This feels really minor – even insignificant. I recommend removing it.

• The quote box in "Reception" is about the sequel, and it's a pretty unimpressive quote – isn't there something more distinctive and/or representative about why the manga/anime is notable?

• I removed the item "through Diamond Comic Distributors" from "Reception", as it seems to be something that should go in "Media". I'll let you place it appropriately.

• Critics praised it for being a modern manga that typifies the magical girl formula, highlighting both its strengths and weaknesses. I would remove this sentence – jump right to what critics liked about the show, and what they didn't like.

• Ikumi's free flowing style and character designs... This feels like WP:OR. Can we find a direct quote to more succinctly describe her style, or simply explain it in technical terms? (I have no idea how to give an example of the latter – maybe something like "Ikumi's focus on fluid motion..." or whatever suits the truth.)

Well, that's it. Good luck with this article, and please let me know if you have any questions about any of this. Cheers! – Scartol • Tok 14:25, 24 June 2008 (UTC)