Talk:American Idiot

Genre?

This, and none of their other albums are really punk rock. Pop punk, maybe. But this album takes a more rocky approach, even with the political lyrics. Pop rock maybe?

It's not pop. That's that. 64.231.68.96 29 June 2005 19:36 (UTC)

All rock is part of pop. Some have stronger pop influences. This album has rock influences, punk influences, and pop influences. Beatles (pop rock), Who (rock), Clash (punk), and other artists all have an influence on Green Day. PM03

Jesus and Jimmy

I recall that in an interview, someone from Greenday said that Jesus and Jimmy were two different people, not one. Evidence: In Novacaine, the singer, presumably Jesus, refers to Jimmy in the 3rd person, plus, he claims that Jimmy 'says its better than air', which makes no sence if he is Jimmy. (Death of Jimmy's line regarding blowing out his brains can be metaphor,)Cor Shan 22:18, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Could it be Whatsername singing? Xxpor 02:14, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • I doubt it, because 'She's a Rebel', where we meet her, is after 'Novacaine', which I gave a link to novocaine and put in a 'Sic' as to prevent some Speeling Nazi from fixing it. Cor Shan 03:59, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm not convinced. "She's a Rebel" is the first song we hear about Whatsername, but she could appear earlier. Plus, unless she's singing "Novacaine," we're left with the curious position of the female lead in the story having only one song (Letterbomb), which doesn't fit with the album-as-musical theme. teucer
• Just a comment, it better than here, not air ;) Xxpor 20:35, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • YOu mean the line in Novacaine? On rare-lyrics.com, it is air, and my ears agree :p Cor Shan 03:09, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • My ears agree too, but in the insert that comes with the CD, it says here. :) Xxpor 19:19, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • Yes, quite. I think that Jesus/Jimmy has a split persona. Of course, the guy's high and insane. He's going to refer to "himself" in the third person. He's turning into Jimmy, he just isn't Jimmy yet. --Fire King 01:08, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)

Considering all of the above, the line "Jimmy Died Today, he blew his brains out into the bay. In MY STATE OF MIND IT'S MY OWN PRIVATE SUICIEDE." strongly intends that they're the same person. You're probably making a mistake in your recollection. The interview is most likely on the internet somwehere, if you want to try to quote it. D prime 01:56, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• Originally I perceived Jesus and Jimmy as separate characters, and I believe Wikipedia formerly supported that idea. However, I am now under the impression that they are split personalities. For those of you who have seen (or read) Fight Club, I think their relationship is near-identical to that of Narrator and Tyler Durden, if that helps. Some other people have given reasons for the one-person theory, but I think the strongest bit comes in Letterbomb. "You're not the Jesus of Suburbia / The St. Jimmy is a figment of / Your father's rage and your mother's love" Compare this to the opening line of Jesus of Suburbia - "I'm the son of rage and love."This also explains the constant presence of "the" in front of either's name - it's one side and another of the same person. I think this is more or less definitive evidence, but if anyone still disagrees, I still think the two-person theory can be argued for. I do, however, consider myself very qualified, since I've been listening to this album over and over again for several weeks. :) --BDD 01:43, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm the biggest expert seeing as I've listend to it through every day since it came out, and have two copies of it (the normal one and the one with the book.) =D And yes, the above comment is completely correct and I support it. However, I don't feel that it's quite as insane a relationship as that and that he uses the new title more to reflect a new personality. But, that doesn't make a difference in how the article should be written.D prime 02:28, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

• I believe that they are the same person only Jimmy is an alter-ego that Jesus created. When Jesus is sitting there with the drugs he has his "darker" side, (ie: Jimmy) telling him to do it.Milkman1042 15:05, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Link

• This is just my personal opinion, but I view St. Jimmy as a person Jesus of Suburbia created in his mind. Probably a split personality. Anyway, I believe that at first Jesus of Suburbia thought he was a real person. PM03 15:20 10 Sept. 2005

Opposition to Bush?

First off, forgive me if my format here is wrong, this is a first for me. I think the album's "opposition to Bush" is little more than hype...though the lyrics mentioned certainly are, there's no other real reference, and I'd say it's a stretch to call it a major theme in the album. I'm not much of a writer, so I'd rather somebody else deal with it, if anyone happens to agree with me.

• Welcome to Wiki, your formatting is fine - just sign off with four tildes. :) As for the Bush opposition, it's most clear on the track "Holiday." Aside from the lyrics, the group themselves stated it in live shows - they played the American Idiot tour's last concert in Toronto on the radio and you hear them talking about how much they hate him, so I it's safe to say the really mean it. They also mentioned their political motivation in interviews. Krupo 14:11, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

• • These are all Anti-Bush lines from Holiday:
    • ...Sieg Heil to the president gasman...
    • ...Pulverize the Eiffel towers / Who criticize your government...
    • ...I beg to dream and differ from the hollow lies
  • From American Idiot:
    • ...I'm not a part of a redneck agenda...
    • ...And sing along in the age of paranoia...
  • From Extraordinary Girl:
    • Like a child left behind
    • Cor Shan 22:16, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The line 'Like a child left behind' is refering to the character Jesus and not Bush. However, their opposition to Bush is very blatant. They have formally said that they don't support him and don't think that he acts in the interest of americans, and at his concert in Toronto on 2004's election night (I was there), Billy Joe went "I hate Bush. I hate him so much. I think that we're safer with Saddam. If he wins tonight, we're not going to be from California any more. We're going to be from Toronto." They've also had their picture taken with John Kerry and are on the punk compilation album "Rockin' against Bush." D prime 01:58, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

While "child left behind" is a descriptor for Jesus (or Jimmy), it seems highly unlikely that Green Day would unintentionally choose a phrase so similar to Bush's education plan. I would agree, however, that besides the title track and Holiday, there is very little anti-Bush music on this album. Don't get me wrong - I love Green Day and hate Bush - but I can recognize a marketing ploy when I see one. If we can think of a polite way of saying that in the article, I would definitely be in favor of doing so. --BDD 01:46, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

(N)POV?

This was removed for being POV/review-style: "American Idiot," the first single released from the album, is a raw and energetic call to arms of sorts. "Boulevard of Broken Dreams," the second single slated to be released, is a more mournful anthem. Both songs exemplify the strong artistic expressions and emotions that come through on the album.

I can understand objections to the last sentence, but the first two help explain what the songs are like - anything wrong with that? Krupo 03:07, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)

"raw and energetic call to arms of sorts" isn't written very pedia-like and too me sounds slightly POV. If a good description can be written then that'd be great. I know it's difficult to describe music without it sounding like a review or POV but I'm sure this could be done. violet/riga (t) 08:34, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ironically, I added "of sorts" in a nod to keeping it NPOV, but I can see where you're coming from. It is a raw and energetic song, though - don't see how that can come up as a matter of dispute, eh? Krupo 01:40, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

---

Musical Improvement

I think that American Idiot is a definite musical development in Green Day. Just listen to any song from that album, and pretty much any other one from any other album. American Idiot actually has music instead of notes with words.

You're entitled to your opinion, but this is an encyclopedia, not a message board. If you care to, you're welcome to examine the actual notes of this and previous Green Day albums and share with us your findings, but then again, it isn't unusual for a band to play more complex music as they mature. If you were suggesting a "Musical Improvement" section, that probably won't fit in. --BDD 00:21, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

American Idiot movie

Anyone else here anything about... if so could you add to the little section I started. --Saint-Paddy 00:37, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I started an article American Idiot (Movie)

where did billie joe armstrong confirm anything?

Song list

I'm not one to do it because I'd probably mess something up but the links in the song list need to be cleaned up to link to their article on Wikipedia if there is one. If there isn't then they should be left without one.

Image

Things seem to be over, so I've moved the discussion to Talk:American Idiot/image. I think I should not have made an issue out of this. I hope the slightly-better-looking image will remain on the page, but I will not take any further actions on this page myself. Dpbsmith (talk) 14:59, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Was this page deleted, or did you make a typo?

More like a braino. More like multiple brainos. Try Talk:American Idiot/cover. Dpbsmith (talk) 01:26, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Please delete

The image uploaded by Pmam21 should be deleted, why? Because I said so. -- Mike Garcia talk 9 July 2005 19:05 (UTC)

• "Mike Garcia said so" is not a valid reason for deletion. Everyone else prefers Pmam21's version. the wub "?/!" 9 July 2005 19:13 (UTC)
  • Well. I don't care and you're not gonna stop me from removing his/her own image that was obviously uploaded by some god damned silly bitch. But, that's it, please delete it. -- Mike Garcia | talk 9 July 2005 19:17 (UTC)

I'm guessing this an album cover... what Mike do you want regoniction that you uploaded a fair use album seen on every other fucking website on the entire web? --Saint-Paddy 03:38, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Genre/Jesus and Jimmy

I think much of this album could very easily be classified as pop. Pop rock is, yes, a more apt description and should appear in the article.

Watch VH1's Storytellers Green Day episode if you want to know everything Billie Joe has to say about Jesus and Jimmy. They are the same person and they are not; it is not clear. He intended it to be open-ended.

Reference to Buddha of Suburbia ?

Is there a reference to Hanif Kureishi's 1990 book, (also a movie & album) The Buddha of Suburbia? The overall theme is vaguely similar but the name may just be a co-incidence. Here's the Amazon.com blurb:

"There's quite a bit of activity in Buddha of Suburbia. A bureaucrat becomes a suburban guru who marries a follower with a son who's a punk rocker named Charlie Hero. Consequently, the guru's son is propelled from his bland life into a series of erotic experiences in London. All the while, Hanif Kureishi keeps the tone lively with wry wit. On the description of suburban life: "We were proud of never learning anything except the names of footballers, the personnel of rock groups and the lyrics to 'I Am the Walrus.'" He also bends cultures, classes and genders while blasting the racism of British life in this 1990 Whitbread Prize winner." --Kingsleyj 20:07, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Import Tracklisting

There's an import version of American Idiot that includes the song "Favorite Son." Most of the time, 'bonus tracks' on import releases are just tacked on the end, but I thought there was a chance that, since the album has a storyline, "Favorite Son" may have been put somewhere in the middle of the album instead. I've been unsuccessful at finding the import release's tracklisting, though. Could somebody find and add information on "Favorite Son" and the import release and include it in a section of the article? -Josh, August 21, 2005; 13:33 EST.

• The tracklisting as I guess it, may be something like this:

1. American Idiot
2. Favorite Son
3. Jesus of Suburbia
4. Holiday
5. Boulevard of Broken Dreams
6. Are We the Waiting
7. St. Jimmy
8. Give Me Novacaine
9. She's a Rebel
10. Extraordinary Girl
11. Too Much Too Soon
12. Letterbomb
13. Wake Me Up When September Ends
14. Shoplifter
15. Homecoming
16. Governator
17. Whatsername

Remember that it isn't OFFICIAL, tracks are placed in the way I think. Post your comments on it. I added the other "unreleased" American Idiot tracks on the list, they are the italic ones.--Greedy 01:31, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

POV: interview

Billie Joe Armstrong once said in an interview, however: "I think a lot of people sort of stick us in a category of just being punk, and I don't think we're the most punk, and I don't even think we're a voice for punk at all. We're not waving a punk rock flag or anything like that - we represent ourselves and our own songs and our own style and our own philosophies, and if that doesn't agree with some faction of people... then f*ck 'em." People are so eager to stick bands into slots, but every band is unique and many do not fit perfectly into any single category. Green Day does not have to be "punk" or "rock" or "alternative"... they are simply "Green Day", and we should not criticize them when they step out of the box which they have been put into.

First, when and where did he said that?... cite sources. Second, that is a very explicit POV, check policies here. --Greedy 18:32, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Grrr

If whoever posts that goddamn thing abot not criticising Green Day again, I'll be majorly pissed off. Learn what NPOV is and come back.

Further, Green Day are Pop Punk. Sorry. It's true. Either accept it, or listen to better music.

Excuse Me?

Would you please stop deleting my post? Yes, I'm the person who says not to criticize Green Day. Why can other people express their views about how Green Day has gone downhill with American Idiot, and I can't defend them? And don't delete a post that you don't even understand... I'm NOT denying the fact that some of their songs are punk pop (or rock or alternative)... what I'm saying is that that doesn't mean they've gone downhill or sold out punk, because they never were punk. They can't sell out something they never belonged to.

It is not the place of wikipedia to tell people what they should or shouldn't do. It isn't encyclopedic. Stop it. Ivesfreak 19:26, 5 September 2005 (UTC)