User talk:Thekohser

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Thekohser (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

per the WP:AN discussion that many would like to see happen

Decline reason:

Not a valid unblock reason, you can not cite a hypothetical discussion as a reason to unblock — Prodego ^talk 02:43, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Thekohser (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

See below

Decline reason:

We have plenty to lose in unblocking you, we've already lost enough time discussing your unblock and will undoubtedly have to waste more on more drama were you to be unblocked. Clearly your presence is detrimental to the project given the disruption it causes so I think it would be inappropriate to unblock. — John Reaves 17:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Over the past 20 months or so, I have garnered a number of critics within the Wikipedia community. Within the "heat" of these discussions, I think a certain amount of "light" has been obscured, one element of which is this apparent notion that I am not even capable of contributing accurate, excellent, and ethical material to the encyclopedia project. I would like to be unblocked for 7 days and nights, to allow me the opportunity to produce 100 edits that may serve as a record of the sorts of things that I could do for Wikipedia, were the baiting and the revenge to cease. Of course, I would promise not to participate in any sort of on-wiki or off-wiki baiting and revenge during those 168 hours. I'm having trouble seeing what the Wikipedia community has to lose in this demonstration, other than an unproven preference to view me as nothing more than a spiteful, talentless self-promoter. Also, the co-founder of this entire project has suggested that I "should be allowed a fresh start in Wikipedia". -- Thekohser 16:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I won't unblock without consensus but for the record, I support this idea. – iride scent 16:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just a quick question, you said "Of course, I would promise not to participate in any sort of on-wiki or off-wiki baiting and revenge during those 168 hours" - what happens after those 7 days Greg? Are you going to stop making attacks regardless for an indefinite period of time? Ryan Postlethwaite^{See the mess I've created or let's have banter} 17:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps that would depend on the behavior of several of my key adversaries during those 7 days. You know, I've been on the receiving end of defamation bordering on libel, plagiarism, and speculative musings that have no basis in truth or even logic. I'm sorry if I don't subscribe to the theory that I must silently acquiesce to these barbs, simply because I'm a blocked editor of this website. Somebody has to "be nice" first, and it might as well be me. If the one-week conditional aspect of this term of niceness prevents you from accepting it, that seems to be your problem, not mine. -- Thekohser 17:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks to John Reaves ("undoubtedly have to waste more on more drama") for proving my very point about speculative musings. I guess personal opinion, rather than examinations of facts, rules the day on Wikipedia once again! -- Thekohser 18:42, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A fresh start means just that Mr. Kohs, a fresh start. Bringing along old baggage, wanting to settle old scores, is not part of a fresh start. If you need to close old feuds first, then do so. But until you're prepared to make a fresh start, you're likely to remain block'd. When you're ready to forgive and forget, then you'll get unblocked. If other people can't do the same, then they'll be dealt with then. Sorry that it works out this way, eh, but this is how cookies crumble. WilyD 19:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In other words, you are encouraging me to continue a campaign of relentless sockpuppetry and antagonism. Great! -- Thekohser 19:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greg, why does that attitude not constitute blackmailing the community? --David Shankbone 19:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because it doesn't? -- Thekohser 20:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which appears to be the reason people do not want you unblocked. You are saying that for 20 months you have engaged in a campaign of relentless sockpuppetry and antagonism, and it will only stop if we let you edit again and give you a fresh start. I don't see how that is a persuasive strategy; people do not usually respond well to ultimatums. --David Shankbone 20:14, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Shanky, I've asked to be unblocked for 168 hours to help improve the encyclopedia, with a bonus promise not to antagonize anyone. If you want to call that an "ultimatum", that's your twisted decision. I thought the point of this project is to build an encyclopedia. I think I'm stumbling on some pretty clear evidence that this is not the actual case. -- Thekohser 20:26, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with that argument is that it assumes your presence will help to build an encyclopedia, and there are quite a few people who feel your past behavior has hindered the building of it, wasted their time, or will be a distraction to them and others on here if you are back. Just because it's the encyclopedia that anyone can edit, doesn't mean it is the encyclopedia that everyone should edit. That idea seems to be lost on some critics, that there is no "right to edit Wikipedia". --David Shankbone 20:44, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't encourage it, but I've naught but a tiny carrot, and no stick that hasn't already been applied to you. Obviously what I can say is unlikely to influence your opinion. But the best I can do is consul you about what's likely to happen for different actions. Antagonising people, for any purpose other than antagonising them, probably won't get you what you want, and will only serve to make you look like a jerk. If your purpose is just to antagonise, what can I say that'll matter?

But, basically, when you're prepared to make a genuine fresh start, forgiving or forgetting (or both!), then, I believe, you can be unblocked and allowed to participate on Wikipedia again. If that's not your goal, or the price is too high, then there's nothing to be done, and it seems things will remain the same, yeah. WilyD 20:09, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've observed something very interesting, WilyD. On Wikipedia, it's considered "antagonism" to tell the truth about something that someone else would rather tell a lie about. The so-called antagonism is then described as a blockable and/or bannable offense, and thus the whistleblower is successfully portrayed as a disgruntled curmudgeon who owes everyone an apology for getting himself banned. It's really too funny, if you think about it. I'll bet they never have arguments like these over at World Book or Britannica. Can you trace step-by-step those whom I have "antagonized" on Wikipedia? I believe you'll find that every one of those whom I've "antagonized" has lied about something that I wished to tell the truth about, and they successfully played the victim in order to see me blocked and/or banned. But I need to be the one who shows up for a "genuine fresh start"? You're right. Since I'm self-respecting person, the "price is too high". -- Thekohser 20:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am not intending to suggest that you don't have legitimate complaints (nor I am suggesting that all your complaints are necessarily legitimate - either way, I'd need an itemised list to comment), but that your behaviour has been needlessly antagonistic (and in fact, I do believe you've mixed legitimate complaints with needless needling). Your unsuccesful clothing line comes to mind ...

But the rest of what you say isn't quite right either. The ethic is that if you show up for a "genuine fresh start" you should be given one too. If you arrive in good faith, and act in good faith and others don't, then they're the ones who need to be dealt with.

In any event, that's the sum total of what I'm empowered to do, or just about anyone else is empowered to do either. From a realistic perspective, why would the community want to invite you back so you can settle your old grudges? WilyD 20:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A good number of people thought that my ArbCom-candidate line of merchandise was very humorous, good-natured, and instructive of larger issues at play. Do you recall that the candidate was using secret mailing lists to antagonize quite innocent and productive contributors to the project of building an encyclopedia, or have you selectively forgotten that? Much as we might lampoon a devious political leader, I executed a similar jest. When I discovered that the subject of that lampoon did not appreciate the work, she offered to take down a retaliatory blog post (that accused me of being an inadequate father) if I took down the storefront. I immediately complied, but then she back-pedaled out of her own tit-for-tat offer. Please, when you show me a realistic perspective, we can talk about realistic perspectives. Do you HONESTLY think if I trotted in here last week and said, "I'm not going to be bad any more, I want to edit Wikipedia, sorry for all the stuff in the past," that I would be quickly unblocked and allowed to edit? We TRIED that path back in February 2007, and it wasn't a couple of days before a certain ex-ArbCom candidate fabricated a story about how I've given "misleading information to journalists", then refused to substantiate it. This is surreal! -- Thekohser 20:40, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greg, you are the one asking to return; we are not the ones asking you back. Do you no longer wish to return, or is it only on your terms? --David Shankbone 20:46, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]