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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Secretlondon (talk | contribs) at 19:48, 12 February 2004 (*How to breed Siamese Fighting Fish - made up? wikibooks? ~~~~). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Votes in progress

Ongoing discussions

January 30

About 10 days since listed. There is no active discussion going on. I think this is as close as we can get to consensus on subjects such as this. Why isn't this deleted yet? -- uriber 18:49, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I count 5 delete and 2 keep. Definitely not a consensus. "As close as we can get to consensus," if not a consensus, means you keep it. Anthony DiPierro 18:57, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
No vote, but a comment on the process. Consensus ≠ Unanimity. After all voices have been heard and everyone has had their chance to make their case as persuasively as possible, decisions must still be made. We must avoid the tyrannies of both the majority and the minority. I've been told our rule of thumb in situations like this is 2/3 supermajority. Rossami 20:12, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The 7 who voted "Delete" are: Texture, Jwrosenzweig, Humus sapiens, OneVoice, Jerzy, JDR, and myself . -- uriber 21:24, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Texture did not vote delete. He said "Even if the article can be save it will need to be recreated with a new title." Jwrosenzweig agreed. In any case, I just added my vote. Even 7/11 < 2/3 < consensus. Anthony DiPierro 21:32, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Just to get the facts right: Texture was the one who placed the entry on VfD. Jwrosenzweig agreed with him on doing so. And I'm not sure you can count mav on the "Keep" side the way you do. -- uriber 21:43, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Consensus may not equal unanimity, but it doesn't equal supermajority either. In any case, 5/8 < 2/3. Anthony DiPierro 21:22, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Well I voted keep and I'm certainly not the author, nor am I a sock puppet. Secretlondon 19:20, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
You said "I'm not taking sides" - so I counted you as a "non-vote". I apologize for my misunderstanding, and I'll update the count accordingly. -- uriber 21:12, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The fact this argument is even happening shows why it has not been deleted. It is obviously not clear whether a consensus has been reached or not. Unless someone is prepared to make that decision (which I'm not), it will be listed here forever. Angela. 02:38, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
Keep. HectorRodriguez 06:16, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I am not sure exactly why this is listed here. If there are inaccuracies then we should fix them. If the list is incomplete we should add to it. If it is NPOV we should fill it in by telling the other side of the story. If the title is NPOV it should be moved to Terrorism in Lebanon, or something like that. Keep, but fix whatever you see as wrong with it.mydogategodshat 03:59, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Keep. Agree. Already some good efforts at a very tricky issue here. Not easy. Andrewa 18:31, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

February 4

February 5

  • Mathematical problem - just a one-line dictionary definition, no history and no scope for much expansion that I can think of right now. Bryan 06:16, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • rather amorphous and vague, ditto the expansion thing. Delete Dysprosia 06:23, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. wshun 07:02, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Bmills 15:52, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep and treat it as a stub article. It could, for example, have an introduction followed by a list of articles about mathematical problems on Wikipedia. See [2]. Dissident 02:16, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Is there a mathematically technical definition of a "problem"? If so, explain here and list problems that have their own article. If not, redirect to mathematics, which already has plenty of pointers into our mathematics articles. --Delirium 06:33, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
  • Higgs' Laws someone's personal law? Gets 6 google hits: [3] Maximus Rex 06:18, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete; vanity article. Besides which, the first and third "laws" are simply incorrect. Data transmission protocols (e.g., 56K modems) are often engineered on the hardware level such that upstream bandwidth is narrower than downstream bandwidth. And there were (and possibly still are) jurisdictions where copyright is perpetual. Psychonaut 10:57, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Merge with Simon Higgs. Then let's come back and discuss that page. Bmills 14:25, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - If it gets to stay then I get to write an article on Texture's Law.... :) - Texture 15:30, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Now that I'd vote to keep. Bmills 15:52, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Wikipedia:No original research Anthony DiPierro 22:05, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Merge with Simon Higgs before deleting. --Delirium 06:33, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. I've often heard these quoted. They may possibly have something of a cult following among people who rarely write webpages (which is the problem with using Google to justify deletion). Whether they are true or not is irrelevant, they are significant. Andrewa 13:14, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete both this and Simon Higgs pages. -- The Anome 13:20, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

February 6

  • Greater Prussia "Greater Prussia is a term which may be used to refer to Brandenburg-Prussia, The Kingdom of Prussia and the subsequent Republic of Prussia as one continuous entity. The term is artificial. It may also be used to refer to the Kingdom of Prussia at its greatest extent."
    • We suffer terribly from having to many Prussia related articles. Somebody added yet another, self decribed as artificial and never used. Delete it!Cautious 12:03, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Freistaat Preußen also. We already have Republic of Prussia. Cautious 12:06, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Note: Cautious and WolfgangPeters are the same individual. This has been verified through the server logs. Maximus Rex 05:36, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep, but possibly redirect. If "Greater Prussia" is a term that is used, it may be worth having at least a stubbish definition of what area it refers to. If it is used only rarely, redirect to Prussia, since that already contains a one-sentence mention of "Greater Prussia". In either case, don't delete. --Delirium 06:35, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
  • Astraphobia substub. Astraphobia is fear of thunder and lighting. It is especially common in young children. It is the the List of phobias By precedent, candidate for speedy deletion, unless someone writes more. Mikkalai 08:01, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • It's not that substubby, though maybe it can be put somewhere more usefl. Dysprosia 08:06, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Redirect to List of phobias and merge, unless this phobia is in some way noteworthy. --No-One Jones (talk) 10:49, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Not huge, but a non-zero start. --Delirium 02:54, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)
  • Yellow Pig Day- Google's already indexed it, and various users of Wikipedia content have already copied it to their databases, but it was just created minutes ago. All reference on the net seem to be to our content, or to bloggish sites. - user:zanimum
    • Not a vote (yet) Hours ago, actually. It seems to be something of a private joke (see here). Can the author please step forward and explain? Bmills 13:24, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Only two google hits, and neither provides any clue as to what this is. Fuzheado 17:22, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Seems to be an Amherst College thing [4]. Hmm, but hcssim is Hampshire College Summer Studies in Mathematics (and note the yellow pig on the top of the page). I'd say merge somewhere and redirect. But I'm not sure where yet. Keep. List on cleanup. Anthony DiPierro 21:59, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • More here. You really only got two google hits? You didn't do a very good search. Anthony DiPierro 22:05, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • This was already deleted 21:41, Oct 30, 2003 Angela deleted "Yellow Pig Day" (listed on vfd for 5 days; all real votes to delete) Maximus Rex 22:04, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • The original was actually better. Apparently this is more popular than we thought. Anthony DiPierro 22:07, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
        • Or the originators are more persistent than some about reposting an in-joke. I vote to delete. Jwrosenzweig 22:11, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • I'm the more recent author. Sorry to cause trouble; didn't realize it had been here before; was browsing the deletion-policy-discussion page, saw the paragraph below, and [as YPD is a real verifiable day, and people really do throw parties on July 17 or, occasionally, travel across the country to celebrate it in Amherst] thought to add it. I would be happy for it to be a) merged with a page on yellow pigs [which, as a phenomenon, are apparently far more widespread than I should like to believe], and b) added to a list of "Days" as recommended by Maximus; is there such a list? +sj+ 03:01, 2004 Feb 7 (UTC)


  Day Pages: MrJones asked whether there should be a policy on whether 
  pages about days (Pi Day, Yellow Pig Day etc) are allowed and whether there 
  ought to be a separate wiki for them. Maximus Rex explained that such pages 
  are kept if they concern real verifiable days, and felt a separate wiki for 
  them may not be useful. He suggested merging them into one page.


    • Or Wikisource. --No-One Jones (talk) 17:30, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Yes, wikisource. Got that wrong. - Texture 17:50, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • The House On The Hill (poem) - This is more a clean-up request. The article had a vfd notice attached on 18 Dec 2003, then spent some time in the copyvio quarantine and when it got out on 23 Dec 2003 it kept the vfd header, but wasn't deleted. A christmas present? Anyway, it's the source of a poem. Delete or wikisource or just remove the vfd header? Lupo 21:07, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete and move to wikisource - Texture 21:10, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Wikisource unless drastically cleaned up in the next few days. Anthony DiPierro 12:16, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

February 7

  • Release Part 1,2 & 3 ambiguous title, almost no content --Jiang 09:16, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Merge with Blackalicious and delete (we don't need the history, as it's public domain information). Anthony DiPierro 12:33, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. The title has nothing to do with the content. RickK 01:56, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Creature --> wiktionary Mikkalai 09:27, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep as stub. Allow to grow. Anthony DiPierro 12:34, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Can this ever go beyond a dicdef? I vote delete. Meelar 16:34, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Good subject, good stub. Just BTW, I'll add the VfD notice. Andrewa 19:47, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Move to Wiktionary in its current form.—Eloquence
  • Sarah Marple-Cantrell Looks like a personal page SD6-Agent 13:02, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Doesn't look like a personal page. Anthony DiPierro 15:02, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • I feel really bad about this one. She's not an encyclopedia subject, but she certainly deserves to be remembered somewhere. Wikimorial and delete. Meelar 16:34, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • This was already listed in VfD back in May, 2003 (see Talk:Sarah Marple-Cantrell). I supported deletion, but there were not enough votes to delete. Kingturtle 21:41, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Not encyclopaedic - are we to have a page on every kid who's ever comitted suicide? What makes Sarah different? Delete. (Also support move to Wikimemorial) PMC 23:07, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Sad, but not encyclopedic. Isomorphic 01:03, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia:List of blank pages - an empty list Anthony DiPierro 16:11, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Would've been great if it was just a completely empty page, but sadly, no.Exploding Boy 16:26, Feb 7, 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. It's linked to from a lot of places. Just because it isn't currently up to date doesn't mean it will never be. It's a useful page. Angela. 10:03, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
      • Why shouldn't blank pages be listed on vfd or cleanup (or unblanked directly), instead of taking the extra step of listing here? What is the use? Anthony DiPierro 16:27, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Alien artefacts This material is thoroughly covered and more easily findable at any of the establish "Alien visitation"-type entries. Delete Wetman 17:22, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep as a redirect to one of those established "alien visitation"-type entries. Onebyone 19:01, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete misspelled and redundant page; at least convert to redirect. --Daniel C. Boyer 19:25, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Del; mv'ed info to Erich von Däniken's bio. JDR
  • Wikipedia:List of stubs without msg Page no longer used or updated. -- Graham  :) 23:21, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • When the server is happier maybe it should be updated. Secretlondon 23:44, Feb 7, 2004 (UTC)
      • But now that the {{msg:stub}} tag is more widely known is this page really needed? -- Graham  :) 13:56, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Yes because there are still many that haven't got the msg, and it's easier to add now. Secretlondon 15:56, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • (No vote). I will updated it once a new (and fairly recent) SQL dump is available. In the meantime, we could delete/blank the page, or just remove the entries for listings that say "has msg". Personally, I prefer the last solution. -- User:Docu

February 8

  • Kendall Bruns subject only has 344 google hits (wikipedia no. 3), looks like self promotion. --Jiang 02:27, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Subject has 344 google hits. Doesn't look like self-promotion. Anthony DiPierro 03:30, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • My name registers 30000 google hits (probably none really referring to me). What's the threshold for inclusion? --Jiang
        • Verifiability. Encyclopedic subject. NPOVable topic. Anthony DiPierro 16:13, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
          • All three? Since when have obscure subject found their way into enyclopedias? Should I create a website about myself and usethat to satisfy the verfibility req? --Jiang
            • Since Wikipedia. A website about yourself does not satisfy verifiability. Being named one of Cincinnati's "Next Influentials" by Cincinatti Citybeat does. Anthony DiPierro 03:24, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Looks like self-promotion. --Wik 03:33, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete, self-promotion/vanity. Maximus Rex 04:18, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Ditto with Anthony. --Ryan 08:00, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • Ambivalent. This is about as grey-area as it gets. Not famous, but not totally obscure. My instinct says that he himself probably created the page. This is a hard call to make. →Raul654 09:05, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Self-promotion. Isomorphic 00:57, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Nonfam. --Imran
    • Delete: personal promotion. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:04, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Parson's Razor seems made up. 1 Google hit. Maximus Rex
    • Delete. 1 Google hit is never a good thing. --Ryan 08:00, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • Polemical and probably made up. Delete. Kosebamse 09:27, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete; not notable. -Psychonaut 18:06, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Only found one google hit, it refered to a Mr Parsons who was contributing to that thread. Secretlondon 19:51, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. seems made up. Maximus Rex 04:14, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. 0 Google hits is even worse! --Ryan 08:00, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • Same as Parson's razor, above. Delete. Kosebamse 09:29, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete; not notable. -Psychonaut 18:06, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. I've found 1 google hit, but certainly idiosyncratic. Secretlondon 19:51, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
  • Bethany Massimilla - person who works for CNet. Not famous. Secretlondon 11:55, Feb 8, 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Person who works for CNet. Famous. Anthony DiPierro 16:16, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • It's known that you believe every person should have a page, whether they're famous or not. So why pretend that this person is famous when that is not the case? Onebyone 17:46, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
        • I'm not pretending. This person is famous. Anthony DiPierro 18:24, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Or does working for well-known website qualify for 15 words of Wikipedia fame? Ianb 16:32, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Bryan 16:56, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Irrelevant. Delete. Kosebamse 16:58, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. - Hephaestos 17:01, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete; not notable. -Psychonaut 18:06, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • delete, nonfamous--Jiang
    • Delete: Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a vanity press Bmills 09:57, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete: WP is not the phone book. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:04, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Criticisms of Anti-Scientific Viewpoints was moved from Scientism per the example set in Allopathy that was used to delete [criticisms of modern medicine]. Criticisms of Anti-Scientific Viewpoints is nothing but a tirade on why some people are imagined to hold anti-scientific viewpoints. Long angry speeches, usually of a censorious or denunciatory nature, that is a diatribe, like this article have no place in an encyclopedia. -- Mr-Natural-Health 18:43, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. The proposer would appear to have redacted opinions with which he does not agree from Scientism into this separate article, and now wants those opinions deleted altogether. Please don't use VfD to censor opinions you don't like. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:15, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Then kindly restructure the text to remove the tirade. [Criticisms of modern medicine] was deleted for the same reason that this article should go. -- Mr-Natural-Health 20:49, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
        • (no vote) This page is for discussing current deletion votes only. Please take disputes about articles to the relevant talk page. Thanks! -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:55, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep for the moment. More antics of a single-issue activist, who seems to be the only editor of this particular page, including creating it and listing it for deletion. Andrewa 09:51, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Merge back into Scientism and then delete. Bmills 09:55, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Not factual and not encyclopedic. ping 06:38, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete: idiosyncratic. -- 209.158.197.2 16:20, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • The above IP is almost certainly Mr-Natural-Health. It belongs to the city of Richmond, where NH lives, and its only contributions have been votes for deletion that just happened to agree with MNH. ---No-One Jones 16:30, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Not encyclopedic. R Gunther 16:26, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • The above user is clearly a sock puppet. I'm 99 per cent certain uts MrNH trying to avoid his ban. theresa knott 17:20, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • User talk:80.43.12.186, User talk:68.8.200.212, User talk:66.158.35.2, User talk:195.157.55.115 - talk pages no longer required, better delete in case other users have the same locations -- Graham  :) 21:03, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • talk pages should be set up to automatically self destruct after one year of no editing. Sometimes, it might be useful to refer to a user's talk page if he has a history of vandalism and was banned before. Unless these can be shown to be dynamic, I vote to keep for at least a few months. --Jiang 23:12, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • I'm very glad you brought that up, Jiang. I've been wondering about that a lot, each time I put some "suggestive" comment on an anonymous page after vandalism, thinking I'm going to freak someone else out later.-- Decumanus 00:34, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • The Metaweb - promotion of website - content: "Superficially, this site looks like a set of FAQs about a novel that I wrote entitled QUICKSILVER. As time goes on, we hope that it will develop into something a little more than that. We don't know how it will come out. It's an experiment." and a link - Texture 23:19, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep, Neal Stephenson is a famous sci-fi author and this is a wiki experiment accompanying his latest book. Our article is crappy so far but I'd list it on cleanup instead of deleting it.—Eloquence 02:51, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Does the fact that he is well known make any difference? It's never good to write wiki articles about yourself, maybe someone should move contents to page about the writer or turn it into an article about the website. Mrdice 04:41, 2004 Feb 9 (UTC)
      • I've moved the article in this direction. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 15:08, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. It's already on Wikipedia:Sites using MediaWiki, use this page to describe it better and link there from Wp:SuMW. --Phil 09:39, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete: Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a vanity press Bmills 09:55, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • I think this one be re-worked away from vanity. Keep, keep a tab on the article at cleanup. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 15:08, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete: advertising for Stephenson's new book. Pretty crass. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:04, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

February 9

  • Philip Bussmann - vanity page? RickK 00:09, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - vanity - Texture 15:25, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete: vanity. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:16, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep: Matches the 5,000 count criteria from Wikipedia:Criteria_for_Inclusion_of_Biographies:PeopleStillAlive: "Well known entertainment figures, such as TV/movie producers, directors, writers, and actors who have starring roles, or a series of minor roles, in commercially distributed work screened by a total audience of 5,000 or more" and/or "Published authors, editors, and photographers who have written books with an audience of 5,000 or more or in periodicals with a circulation of 5,000 or more". Cyvh 19:38, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Guy - reads like a copyvio, but I can't find where it's copied from. But what does the article have to do with the title? RickK 00:16, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep (unless its made up). If theres no evidence that its a copyvio then its best to assume that it isn't. The article seems to be about an r&b group called Guy, so perfectly relevant to the title. Saul Taylor 01:21, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep - Texture 15:25, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep the article about the group called Guy. A Google check for many phrases from it persuades me that it's rewritten rather than copied. Jamesday 04:36, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • overeating - just an ad. Same anonymous user is adding references to the same organization in other articles. Isomorphic 00:37, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Spoke too soon. User is still editing it. May turn into a useful article. But I'm wary of NPOV problems, so watch this article. Isomorphic 00:44, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • GreySheeters Anonymous - Advert. Mrdice 04:27, 2004 Feb 9 (UTC)
    • Delete. I added the VfD nore. Bmills 13:08, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep, file on cleanup (cf overeating, above). A google for "greysheeters" finds quite a lot of stuff, from disparate sources. A variant on "overeaters anonymous". -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 14:43, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Not advert. Anthony DiPierro 11:17, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • I did a heavy edit for format, wiki, etc. Keep--verifiable, encyclopedic. Meelar 03:57, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Reproduction speed - dicdef. --Imran 00:46, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Wiktionary. (So refreshing to see something that actually belongs here). Anthony DiPierro 00:49, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - move to wiktionary - Texture 15:25, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • No. Keep. There must be thousands of articles like this one here in Wikipedia, and we don't want to (?????!?) get rid of all of them. <KF> 20:23, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Polish succession war is a duplicate of War of the Polish Succession 00:52, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Merge, than make one one into a redirect to the other. (Btw, did it finish in 1735 like the first one says or 1738 like the second one says.) Saul Taylor 01:21, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Fighting ended in 1735, but a formal treaty wasnt signed until 1738. (kind of like Korea)
  • Urgoy - what is this? a name? --Jiang 01:40, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Now a redirect to Uighur Bmills 12:51, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)


  • 1 E-21 s - not encyclopedic Anthony DiPierro 03:27, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Wikipedia has loads of articles on numbers (five, nine), deleting this would mean deleting all. Also, this article is part of Orders_of_magnitude_(time) Mrdice 04:37, 2004 Feb 9 (UTC)
    • Keep. Although the smallest time unit with meaningul content is currently 1 E-18 s, there is real work being done in zeptosecond physics that could be referenced here. - Seth Ilys 14:52, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - currently not encyclopedic. - Texture 15:25, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep- its only a matter of time before it gets filled in. Don't break up series requiring them to be later reconstructed. Rmhermen 16:29, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
      • The whole series should be moved to a single page. Anthony DiPierro 22:30, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Break series if there is no content. It can always be reconstructed. --Hemanshu 16:48, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. A timewasting nomination, by someone too lazy to bother putting on the VfD notice on the page. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 17:03, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Cypherpunks anti-license - this entry seems entirely to describe one person's web page for a hypothetical "license" that doesn't seem to have ever been used anywhere else. The only references to it on Google are its Web page, the Wikipedia entry, mirrors thereof (some to an older wiki version), and a couple people's links lists. —Steven G. Johnson
    • Delete, please. Mrdice 04:32, 2004 Feb 9 (UTC)
    • Delete - fictional - Texture 15:25, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Shnorrer -- slang definition. No-One Jones (talk) 04:42, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Move to wiktionary, and maybe send Wik along with it? Or are we allowed to do that? Pakaran. 04:45, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Agree with Pakaran on both counts. Anthony DiPierro 04:46, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Comment about Karl Schnorrer moved to the talk page. Anthony DiPierro 22:40, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Since when is "slang definition" a reason for deletion? Just as with the term shlemiel, a whole (sub-)culture is hiding behind shnorrer. Read Leo Rosten's book(s) before putting such words on VfD. And of course there is also a novel by Israel Zangwill entitled The King of Shnorrers. <KF> 12:36, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - Wiktionary is the place for slang definitions - Texture 15:25, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Agree, delete. Bmills 15:31, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Wow, great arguments you've got here. I'm impressed. By the way, could you refer me/us to that part of Wikipedia policy where it says that slang has no place in Wikipedia? Because if that's true, I'll nominate Baseball slang. <KF> 18:39, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • It's not the slang part that's a problem. It's the dictionary definition part. See Wikipedia:What wikipedia is not. Anthony DiPierro
      • Oh, that's fine with me. So let's nominate Baseball slang, which consists solely of dictionary definitions. <KF> 22:44, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Believe me, a cryptic reference to another page that contains lots and lots of ideas, guidelines, rules, etc. is not (let me repeat this: not) an argument. You seem to have three other "arguments" at your disposal which you use in a random fashion: "dictionary definition", "slang", and "encyclopaedic" (see Baseball slang below). <KF> 23:06, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
        • Once again. Brash fighting on the delete page. Shnorrer is an entry entirely devoted to a definition of a word (let's ignore "slang" here). That violates the "wikipedia is not a dictionary" on the page that Anthony mentions above. Baseball slang is an encyclopedic entry that talks about how slang has affected American language, and then lists examples. Now, it is perhaps not the best written prose, but it is encyclopedic, not a straight dictionary entry. Move Shnorrer to wiki- dictionary, and delete. Lyellin 00:52, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
        • I wasn't making an argument. The argument is already made at Wikipedia:What wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. I've never used "slang" as justification for a deletion. As for my use of "encyclopedic," I think regular contributors will know what I mean. If you don't, I encourage you to stick around for a while and see. There's a lot of shorthand notation that goes around on these pages. I'm sorry if I was brash. Anthony DiPierro 01:03, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Over time I think this could become an extremely encyclopedic article on a cultural archetype that has a lot more behind it than a simple dictionary definition. --Alex S 01:07, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Wiktionary. KF: The Baseball Slang article isn't very good, but falls into the "lists" category (which is my vote below). Tempshill 01:44, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep: literary term. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:16, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • No comment on deleting but if it does stay it should be spelled correctly: schnorrer, which gets about 44,000 Google hits compared to a few hundred for the unusual one in use in this article. Jamesday 04:24, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Important cultural term. 131.130.181.71 16:10, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Deleting this term could be seen as an anti-semitic act by some. Wikikiwi 21:17, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Computer controlled - can this ever be a useful article? Is there something it could be redirected to? - SimonP 05:10, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - Wiktionary - Texture 15:25, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Agree, delete. Bmills 15:31, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Possible article (though it should be 'computer control') but not this one. Delete. DJ Clayworth 15:51, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)


  • List of streaming media addresses - a mere list of external links -- The Anome 17:12, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep - extremely useful list of links that does not seem to exist elsewhere - Many are live news feeds. - Texture 18:06, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Wikipedia is not a webdirectory. Besides, links are not persistent things. Who will maintain their up-to-dateness? A robot must be set up. It is pretty frustrating to walk thru a list of valuable links only to find out half of them are dead. Mikkalai 02:22, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep (reluctantly) as possibly useful in creating an encyclopedia. Anthony DiPierro 04:16, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete: WP is not a web directory. Links are too ephemeral. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:16, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • MUD trees - an example but no content or explanation - Texture 17:28, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. It's also an exact copy from the site it lists in ext. links ("DikuMud Heirarchy (c)1995-2000 Derek Snider"). --Mrwojo 17:54, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete, for same reasons as above. Psychonaut 18:02, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Its fate should be the same as Dikumud. I vote to merge them. Mikkalai 02:41, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • I disagree: Dikumud should stay regardless, but it should be at DikuMUD instead (currently a duplicate substub). --Mrwojo 03:21, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
        • I fail to see your logic. If dikumud stays, then its tree definitely belongs there, regardless external links. Mikkalai 16:50, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
          • I fail to agree that the post should be deleted. I think it was a harsh decision to vote it down in the first place, when an edit may have been in order. Since "Dikumud" is not its derivatives, putting it on the Dikumud entry doesn't make sense. The "MUD Family Tree" entered into the public domain in 1993, and was posted on rec.games.mud.diku and is considered the public domain, and is NOT copyrighted to Derek Snider, as the page it is from indicates, as this was an adaptation from a previously released copy, which was copied and constructed. In fact, I believe the original tree changed hands many times before being "Claimed" (unlawfully) by Derek Snider, if that was his intent by putting (c)1994-2000 Derek Snider on his web page. Furthermore, a "MUD Family tree is not the same as the MUD itself, and would serve as a lineage / navigational tool for other entries. Ebube_Dike
        • Mikkalai, I disagreed with the idea that whatever happens to MUD trees should also happen to Dikumud since they aren't the same thing. Ebube_Dike, if a person makes changes to something in the PD then they hold the copyright to the changed version. I can't find the post you mention and you say its from the site the claims copyright. I've replaced the text with the copyright notice. --Mrwojo 07:51, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Hidden Worlds, Online creation - One is self promotion and the other only exists to reference the first - Texture 17:30, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Wikipedia is not a vanity press. Psychonaut 18:02, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Do not delete. Shows an important part of MU* history and the lineage of an idea's initial "inception" and is related to the acronym OLC. If you search google, you will notice many "OLC" sites. Ebube_Dike +
        • Do not delete. Nice online creation article, but just look in the page history to see some changes I made to it, to bring it up to Wikipedia's style standards. User:Zanimum


  • Chief of Staff - already deleted once wasn't it? - same text as the last one. - Texture 18:14, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • It was, which makes it an instant deletion candidate, which I have done. Morwen 18:37, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep in current form - Anthony has replaced with a good disambiguation page. This will hopefully reduce the recreation of the prior page. - Texture 03:25, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Ayn Rand and the open source movement - Very POV and un-encyclopedic. -- Wapcaplet 20:35, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Someone has been reading too much Ayn Rand. Beyond redemption. delete -- Viajero 20:44, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Perhaps I will write an article called Randroid. Oh look, it's there already. Delete. - David Gerard 21:03, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • Original research. Unavoidably POV. I couldn't find anything useful in it to salvage. Delete. Anthony DiPierro 22:47, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. While it is interesting, it is hardly encyclopedic. --Sennheiser! 22:56, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Just link to the essay from another article. There's no need to replicate it here. Angela. 23:34, Feb 9, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - Texture 01:51, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. NPOV and Original research. Syntax 03:13, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Randroid ranting. Irremediable. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:16, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Essay. DJ Clayworth 15:48, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Baseball slang -- move to Wiktionary and then delete because this is (a) just slang and (b) only dictionary definitions. For details, see the discussion about shnorrer above (VfD, 9 February). Advocatus diaboli, 23:00, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Encyclopedic. Anthony DiPierro 22:57, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Yes, by all means keep. Sara 23:17, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • While I agree this is largely slang definitions, they are definitions that share a common thread -- in fact, one of my reasons for listing them was to give evidence that baseball has had an impact on American slang, and the only way to do this is to point out to people that many slang terms they use are derived from the sport. Perhaps there could be a larger section describing the slang itself (comments, other information) to make it more encyclopedic. In any case, I think there is enough to make it worthwhile. Of course, I'm biased. Revolver 01:07, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • I might also add that although the article is titled "baseball slang", and each slang term has a baseball meaning, EVERY SLANG TERM also has an independent non-baseball meaning that has "evolved" from the original meaning, so this is NOT just a guide to "how to talk like a baseball fan".
    • Keep, but rename the article to "List of baseball slang terms". This isn't an article on baseball slang and I very much doubt it will ever be. The article falls into the large category of "list of xxx" articles. Tempshill 01:44, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Making this a list would be a very bad idea. Lists are meant to categorize articles, but none of the items in this list should have articles. A list without links is of questionable validity for Wikipedia.—Eloquence 04:45, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
        • I agree with eloquence (wow). A pure list would be unencyclopedic. Actually, this article would be much better if it were made less of a list. Anthony DiPierro 04:51, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
          • That's what I'll try to do. Revolver 20:15, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Actually, this is "Slang from baseball", rather than "slang of baseball",i.e., baseball terminology applied to non-baseball things. Mikkalai 02:30, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • One way I could improve it might be to give a short description of the etymology of each term following the definition. Some of the terms have interesting histories behind them. And I think you may have missed the point, Tempshill; these terms were chosen specifically because they have nonbaseball meanings...if I were to randomly choose baseball slang, I could come up with hundreds, few of which mean anything outside baseball. See, for comparison, [5]. I can improve it (give me some time).Revolver 02:42, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep - encyclopedic presentation - Texture 01:51, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Only listed to try to prove a silly point. RickK 06:11, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC) (sorry, forgot to sign my vote)
      • The fact that a sport (considered the "national pastime") has had a major influence on slang in a culture, so much so that the people don't even realise it, is "silly"?? I can think of a lot of information on wikipedia that's much "sillier" -- e.g. Stanley Kubrick died 666 days before 2001. That seems sillier to me than this article. Revolver 20:15, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Move majority of terms to Wiktionary, only retain a few examples here.—Eloquence 04:45, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
      • Wikipedia is not paper? If I can come up with an interesting couple of sentences on most of the terms (I probably wouldn't use all), why not? It seems like a lot of people here are poo-poo-ing this whole thing just because they're not baseball fans. Well, hey, I'm not a STAR TREK fan, but I don't go around telling the people who write those articles that they're a silly waste of space. (Sorry if I'm starting to sound defensive.) Revolver 20:15, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep: cultural terms. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:16, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep, but the article would be more useful if the terms were given some context and/or history. I may work on improving the article at some point. --Minesweeper 08:41, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)
    • Americocentric. Dictionary definitions. Not even complete sentences. Keep, because deletion would upset Americans. Wikikiwi 20:21, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • I added some context. I vote keep, and btw, Wikikiwi, you really don't help your case when you mock an entire nationality. Meelar 00:43, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • I'm not making fun of anyone here, let alone a whole nation. Just have a look at how strongly they react to someone who has the chuzpah to want to see their national pastime deleted ("cultural terms", encyclopedic presentation", and so on). This is not mocking anyone; this is the truth. Wikikiwi 13:00, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

February 10

  • Luvdisc - This is a Pokemon character, but the page is extremely underdeveloped compared to many of the others (compare with Pikachu and Snorlax) and hasn't been touched in months. There are probably other Pokemon with similar stub articles--perhaps they should be listed on cleanup instead? --zandperl 02:08, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Seems fine. Anthony DiPierro 03:17, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. No reason to delete. By the way, Pikachu isn't a fair comparison; he's the core character of all. Tempshill 19:01, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Newlyweds - Wikitionary. jengod 02:31, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Dictionary definition. Anthony DiPierro 03:15, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Before something is deleted because it belongs on another project it should go through the m:transwiki system. As Newlyweds is not on the Transwiki log, vote to undelete so we can see the contents are. Gentgeen 11:27, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Temporarily undeleted. Maybe it could be redirected to Marriage. Angela. 17:42, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
    • Redirect to Marriage, I guess. Or Wiktionary. Tempshill 19:01, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Interwiki redirects are bad, as they are very hard to find. Gentgeen 21:27, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Hogtie - Currently consists of definitions only; move to Wiktionary - Dissident 03:34, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep as stub. Anthony DiPierro 03:56, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • working on it, will add diagram once i make it. first entry here. Stressmonkey 05:02, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep regardless. I am sure someone will tie this up into a nice article eventually. -- Jussi-Ville Heiskanen 12:02, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
    • I'm shocked. Delete. 131.130.181.71 16:10, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Doublemint. Nonencyclopedic. Unless somebody would like to write an article on Juicy Fruit. RickK 05:43, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Merge and Redir into Wrigley Company Davodd 07:37, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Encyclopedic. (And I guess RickK's vote counts as keep too?) Anthony DiPierro 11:15, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - Not sufficient to qualify as encyclopedic - Texture 16:04, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Please keep. I have added some material. I think this might be a case study in the relative merits of five minutes Googling vs. 30 seconds at VfD. - Hephæstos|§ 17:19, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. I just wrote Wrigley Company as well. RadicalBender 17:50, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. We've got Mars Bar and I think Doublemint is probably even more ubiquitous. Elf 23:58, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. --Minesweeper 01:41, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)
  • Gdansk, Poland -- the real article is here: Gdansk (currently protected). Nico 11:57, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Gdansk, Poland appears to be a redirect to Gdansk. Or change so Gdansk redirects to Gdansk, Poland. --zandperl 15:41, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • It was not a redirect by 11:57, 10 Feb 2004. See the page history: [6]. We do not need this as a redirect, anyway. Nico 16:58, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Sant Cassia - Should the above page be deleted, is it needed on Wikipedia.
    • No it shouldn't be deleted as its a surname which is well known in Maltese modern history. These are the reasons for not being deleted:
      1. A noble family in Malta
      2. One of the Richest in Malta
      3. The late Count was murdered and the muderer not caught or has been resolved.
      4. Much of the present who's who in today's Malta are descendants of the House of Sant.
      5. It has a colourful history, which many people aspire to. Conte Said-Vassallo
    • Keep. Do anonymous VfD's count? Anyway, the page is obviously having an edit war that should be resolved rather than completely deleting the page. --zandperl 16:53, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • I signed for them. I think this should be deleted if the information can not be verified. Angela. 17:57, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
      • (non-vote) could you possibly add the vfd boilerplate to the article then please? Just so that people know it's been listed. I would, but the article's been protected. -- Graham  :) 20:03, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep but needs editing and expansion. We've got entries with sort of similar intent for Kennedy political dynasty and House of Windsor; I did a 10-second web search and found extremely detailed history [1] confirmning the apparent importance. Elf 23:44, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • The whole problems stem from Ghariexem wanting to place heirs to titles which under the Maltese succession laws is not a good idea. As the body that eventually decides whoms gets such titles can be different to what one naturally assumes. Or if the Present Count/Baron nominates his heirs. The problem is the Present titleholder is a BACHELOR in his 40's. So there might be time for marriage. Though I do agree that SANT CASSIA should be left online for all to view, but only as a history without heirs. Its not heard of when reading famous families, who their heirs are, so in this case, it should be the same as the others. I wouldn't rank them with the Kennedy's or the Windsors. Even though they are well known in Malta. Mostly people either are honoured or totally scared of such persons. I'd say long live the SANT CASSIA'S..Conte Said-Vassallo
      • What are your reasons for putting honoured or totally scared of such persons. Page left as it is, giving just needed information
      • My reasons regarding the honoured part is quite naturally. Ghariexem knows exactly the reactions of people. Oh your a SANT CASSIA. People heard many stories, good and bad. Though from a propective history on Wikipedia, we should at least place the following: 1. Who are the SC's. 2. Their origins. 3. The present title holder. 4. Other families which stem from the SC's family. 5. Brief history such as important factors. As noted in www.maltesenobility.org or www.maltagenealogy.com site. Though if you have a SANT CASSIA family on Wikipedia, then you need to add SANT FOURNIER, SANT MANDUCA, and SAID. These form part of what SANT CASSIA is all about. ..Conte Said-Vassallo
  • Very Irresponsible Material on the Internet - high POV article unrelated to the title. - Hemanshu 15:27, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Yes, terribly POV, badly titled, badly written, not in wikipedia style or format. (Sidenote: amusingly, this is the first time I've gotten into an edit conflict, trying to put a vfd on) -- user:zanimum
    • Delete - Texture 16:04, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete unless someone wants to put in the effort to make this into a page (with a different title)discussing internet liability and responsibility. --zandperl 16:38, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete Bmills 16:46, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete, not redeemable. Tempshill 19:01, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete Exploding Boy 01:42, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Denelson83 06:41, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Hopeless. Delete. Kosebamse 13:52, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • cs:Lustinsky - Since deleted test doesn't work for non-English Wikipedia, I have bring some Czech pages here. I'd like to have deleting rights for Czech Wikipedia if it is possible for not bothering admins with routine work. -- Vít Zvánovec 15:34, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Williams Communications - company advert - "...For More information visit the WilTel Communications web site at www.WilTel.com and the Government Solutions web site at www.WilTelgov.com or call 1-866.WilTel.1" - Texture 16:25, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • I was originally going to say keep and rework until I discovered that they aren't these guys (which is actually a large and reasonably important company). So, delete. RadicalBender 16:35, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete Bmills 16:46, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Move to WilTel Communications. List on cleanup. Anthony DiPierro 23:45, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Practice - attempted dictionary definition - and I don't think it's accurate - Texture 19:51, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • I can still remember the lecture in school about the difference between "Practise" and "Practice"... dictionary definition (and no it's not terribly accurate) so delete. -- Graham  :) 19:59, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Fuscob - someone who has developed something for itunes. Not famous. Secretlondon 19:54, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
  • Fuscob - Utterly pointless page, even after the '1337 speek' has been removed. It's of no use to wiki at all. Chrism 19:48, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - vanity page or identity theft attempt to attack person by broadcasting their AIM address - Texture 19:57, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Not vanity page or "identity theft" Anthony DiPierro 20:54, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Vandal User:213.16.152.175 just blanked it by the way. Jor 21:22, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • the above IP blanked it, and then someone deleted it without checking the history. I just restored it. PLEASE do not instant delete things that are not instant deletion candidates. Secretlondon 21:25, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. DJ Clayworth 21:36, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

February 11

  • Sleeper -> wiktionary. Mikkalai 07:35, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Disagree. This is a useful disambig page. →Raul654 07:48, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Useful disambig. Mrwojo 07:51, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep, the randomness of links to it speaks volumes. :-) Stan 08:10, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep Good disambig. DJ Clayworth 21:46, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Junkno, supposedly a form of music (which some find "quite annoying to listen to"). No relevent google hits [7]. Maximus Rex 08:14, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep and list on cleanup. Relevant google hits. Anthony DiPierro 21:21, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Delete. Anthony, maybe you could pick one that you think is in some way relevant but none of them seem to be relevant to me. Saul Taylor 03:34, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Agree, no relevant google hits (for "junkno", "junk no", "junk techno", maybe proof that Croove is real), no verifiable evidence I can find of encyclopedic worth, so delete or change into a redirect to junkanoo (which is also spelled junkano, and is not an unlikely misspelling IMO). Tuf-Kat
  • Medical Scientism -- idiosyncratic -- The Anome 17:26, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Idiosyncratic. Anthony DiPierro 17:30, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete or redirect to scientism. It's self-promotion for his web site and his writings, which form the vast majority of search engine results for the word pair, other than those which are from us. Jamesday 20:18, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • A valid discussion of medical scientism could exist, but that's not it. Redirect to scientism, which could do with a paragraph discussing scientism in medicine, certainly. --No-One Jones (talk) 21:25, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Redirect. Then put on your hard hats. Bmills 12:10, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep and treat it as a stub article. -- 209.158.197.2 16:18, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • The above IP is almost certainly Mr-Natural-Health. It belongs to the city of Richmond, where NH lives, and its only contributions have been votes for deletion that just happened to agree with MNH. ---No-One Jones 16:30, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Not well developed yet, but a great start. R Gunther 16:24, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)


  • Goodwin, Hester Genealogical stub about non-famous person, but my main objection is the title. Deb 19:01, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Exactly. Delete. Wikikiwi 20:24, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Title is fixed. Keep. Famous. Anthony DiPierro 21:13, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Nonfamous. --Wik 21:15, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Not famous. Mrdice 21:23, 2004 Feb 11 (UTC)
    • Delete as not famous. The article does not indicate why this person is in any way noteworthy. --No-One Jones (talk) 21:25, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • How can you, Tony, say she's famous? Not a single page links to Hester Goodwin, and none of the names in her own article has an entry. Who is she? Don't be so damn monosyllabic! Wikikiwi 21:34, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Nonfamous. This is somebody's genealogy project. See [8] DJ Clayworth 21:40, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Not famous. Secretlondon 21:53, Feb 11, 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete, no proof of anything resembling noteworthyness. - snoyes 21:59, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete, shouldn't have to be famous, but must at least be notable in context of something. Cool Hand Luke 01:53, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Not famous, or, at least, nobody has produced any evidence that she is. Doesn't pass the Google test. Dpbsmith 02:43, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Not an encylopaedic subject. The onus in on anyone saying she is famous to prove it. Bmills 12:42, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Fails to state any information that could colourably be interpreted as basis for inclusion in Wikipedia. Article could be revised so such information is included but until they my vote is to delete. --Daniel C. Boyer 14:50, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • List of topics related to current Polish territories related to -- pointless, unathorised disclaimer, inciting hate. I shall not reverse inserted disclaimers on referenced pages, as I don't want edit wars in all referenced pages. Przepla 21:41, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Whatever anyone may think about the disclaimer (and I think it is in line with ordinary WP practice, and also a step in the right direction), the page itself is a valid list of topics. Charles Matthews 21:45, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. The disclaimer and the page itself are a good step towards solving the constant edit wars for these pages. Jor 21:51, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • I know there are edit wars on those pages. But I object on topic based factual accuracy disclaimers. For instance Szczecin page had reached consensus, and yet it has been listed as disputed solely on fact that it is within scope of article. Besides, correct me if I am wrong, main namespace is not intended for disclaimers. If this would be permitted, why don't insert such disclaimers in all God based articles, since they are also often changed. I object to very idea of generic topic based disclaimers to disputed pages. Przepla 22:02, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
        • In that case remove the disclaimer and link it from See also. The article itself is useful still for the same reasons. Jor 22:07, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
          • I already stated my opinion. I understand that I may be wrong and that is the reason I put here to consult community. I still think that factual accuracy should be resolved separately for each article. Even Israel/Palestine conflict pages does not have such disclaimer.Przepla 22:19, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
          • I agree with Przepla that we do not need such a disclaimer. This page is not helpful at all. Recently there was some progress towards more NPOV in some of the articles, and I don't know why we should need this disclaimer now. Delete. -- Baldhur 08:46, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - Removed text in article requesting text be added to other polish articles and reference to talk page (not appropriate for the article itself) - This appears to be trying to be some kind of meta-page - I assume we are not going to try to create meta pages for each controvertial issue but are going to use existing talk pages. - Texture 15:47, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete 1st the authors of this page are complete ignorants. They put the disclaimer on the areas, which never been a part of moden Germany. The main issue with thie page, is that the cities are currently Polish and are not subject of any international dispute. Why people of those cities should be denied right to express their view on the history of their cities? Cautious 17:29, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Can I make the point that it would be good for Wikipedia to resolve all the differences about articles in this area before May 1, when Poland accedes to the EU? And that this will require discussion with all Wikipedians interested in these matters? Simply calling for deletions doesn't help this process.Charles Matthews 17:38, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

February 12

  • Fragarach. Can anyone find any record of this thing existing other than on gaming sites? RickK 03:24, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep (Updated article). Non-gaming site references (2 of many) appended to article (cos I can't get them to work in here) Syntax 04:05, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Security Intelligence Service - junk. TwoOneTwo 22:13, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. The article describes a real organisation, which has definite place in Wikipedia. It's horribly NPOV, and poorly written (bland assertions for one) - That's a job for cleanup, not deletion, however. Added the VFD tag. Syntax 03:30, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • It is not clear what is up for deletion, does this refer to the redirect Security Intelligence Service or the article it redirects to Secret Intelligence Service? If it is the former then it should be deleted as there are at least two organisations with that name and to have the redirect is misleading. However the article Secret Intelligence Service should be kept as it is and not deleted. -- Popsracer 04:13, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Agreed. SecretIS needs work (notably on NPOV), though the name is correct, but SecurityIS needs either working up into a disambiguation page (and not to what it links to now, which it doesn't apply to), or deleting.... -- James F. (talk) 04:21, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Some further information: The timestamp aboe suggests that this refers to the article as created by 210.55.130.188 on 21:52, 11 Feb 2004; this was deleted by User:Finlay McWalter on 22:16, 11 Feb 2004 (three minuts after this was posted) as "patent nonsense. content was: 'This Organisation Is Dedicated To Fighting And Eliminating All Alien Threats. We owe our lives to these people who we dont even know.'". End this discussion? -- James F. (talk) 04:26, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Qibla al-Qudsiyya. Can anybody find any proof of the existence of these people other than a site that gets its information from Wikipedia? RickK 04:46, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • I can confirm the existence of some Jews of Medina who converted to Islam in 622, but not under this name or any variant Romanizations thereof -- and I find no evidence whatsoever that they formed a distinct sect of Islam. I don't know; it seems like an odd thing to make up, so defer for now. --No-One Jones (talk) 05:06, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • 20th Century. This page is clearly inexcusable as it stands. Part of me wishes the whole thing could just be deleted; part of me hopes some of the information can be salvaged. The lists of "important" things clearly must go; civil rights isn't even mentioned once. The whole thing is just very sophomoric; although the beginning paragraphs are not so bad, there is *way* too much POV. --AnonymousFriend
    • Keep, its a genuinely centry. Some of the older Wikipedians might remember living during it. (Question: are annonymous users allowed to nomitate articles on vfd?).Saul Taylor 13:24, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. It's an important overview, and belongs in an encyclopedia. While the content can do with some work (it seems a little unweidly to have so many big lists), and I'm sure it misses things, it's mostly OK. I didn't find anything outrageously POV in a quick skim through, bearing in mind that the article, by its nature, must simplify complex issues to single line introductions. What exactly do you take issue with about being POV? In any case, it's not delete worthy. ShaneKing 13:25, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep - Texture 15:37, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Silly listing IMO. Bmills 16:03, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • How to make Biodiesel Not an encylopaedic subject. Wikibooks? Bmills 12:53, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. Encyclopedic subject. Anthony DiPierro 14:26, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - move to appropriate location unless it is updated to be more than the mere recipe it is now. - Texture 15:37, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Ars (no giggling at the back, please) Dictionary def of a Latin word. Bmills 13:05, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - Texture 15:37, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Tror, Seskef - patent nonsense, claiming that Thor was the son of Priam. Unless this needs context as fiction based on a work I am not familiar with, delete it. -- Smerdis of Tlön 14:43, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Ridiculous cryptohistory (I think it's serious --- this is probably the source). Delete with extreme prejudice. ---No-One Jones 14:54, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete nonsense.Bmills 15:00, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete - Texture 15:37, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Shrine - dictionary definition - Texture 15:48, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. Keep revised version Bmills 16:03, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Expanded, still needs work. We need something here: keep. Smerdis of Tlön 16:07, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Keep in current form - looks to be a better article. - Texture 16:09, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Now a respectable stub. Keep. DJ Clayworth 16:10, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Agree with Smerdis. Over twenty articles link to this, including Wikipedia:Most Wanted. - Hephæstos|§ 16:14, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
  • Misuse of the Internet - attempt to recreate Very Irresponsible Material on the Internet (listed above) under another name - Texture 17:00, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • [add The Way the Internet is used or abused to the above] This is silly. Do we need an article on misuse of the telephone saying how people sometimes use the telephone for phone sex and drug dealing, and oh isn't that terrible, fortunately we're not like that? Or what about an article on misuse of the postal service, describing how people send pornography through the mail, and also letter bombs, how dreadful, tsk tsk? Delete this article and any further clones or reincarnations thereof. ---No-One Jones 17:08, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • I know it looks silly. Please read the article on Moral panic. Moral panics are just about this type of silliness.Barbara Shack 17:21, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
        • My point was not that the concern over pornography on the Internet and suchlike is silly (though most of it is :-), but that having an article that basically says "Some people worry about this stuff, and maybe their worries are justified, but maybe not" doesn't inform or educate the reader about abuses of the Internet. The place to document concern over Internet pornography and Armin Meiwes is in those articles, not in a vague editorial. ---No-One Jones 17:32, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Merge salvagable content into Internet and redirect delete as history has been moved to Public concern over the Internet. Anthony DiPierro 17:17, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete. This article is a POV rant. I don't see it as fixable other than moving it into a "misuse of technology" article if one exists. HectorRodriguez 17:55, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • Don't give Anthony ideas - that would be just as POV not matter how it is written because the title and context is POV to begin with. - Texture 17:59, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
        • Agree that the title is POV. That's why I recommended moving to Internet and redirecting. Anthony DiPierro 19:09, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
          • I think all these (even as redirects) need deletion. They are not appropriate since they, even as redirects, are POV titles. Got confused about your intent to move to Internet when you started updating the POV articles. - Texture 19:17, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • What is POV about the current article? Anthony DiPierro 19:09, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
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