User:Hcheney/172

It is best to understand those that you have conflict and disagreement with so you can empathize with their viewpoint and achieve consenus. This page is meant for my own reference.

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Wikipedia talk:Please do not bite the newcomers

There's no need to treat new users gently. There's a value in a Wikipedia hazing process. New users should keep a low profile, avoid controversial subjects, and avoid contentious disputes while building up their standing. If they can't handle a rough, unwelcoming reception, then they're unfit to endure the endless bickering and politicking on this site. A low profile is necessary while learning the structure of the site, with its "village pump," "vandalism in progress," "annoying users," and "problem users" pages; its mailing list; its policies and guidelines; and its administrative hierarchy. Perhaps more important is becoming acquainted with the cast of characters with whom they’re going to be working, given their interests, and; and the informal, unstated cultural conventions unique to the site.

My experiences as a new user are an example of the virtues of hazing. As a new user, I was subject to great suspicion, like all new users. Thus, it wasn't a good idea to begin focusing on contentious subjects already subject to extensive peer-editing. Right away, I was hit with a barrage of accusations from many users that I had some kind of POV agenda. My first reaction was to ask that these people leave me alone and that if they were suspicious of my contributions that they do some independent research. Since then, I've learned that an active contributor will have to perhaps spend more time on the talk pages deliberating with other contributors, who often don't know a damn thing about the subject, and defending his contributions with a lengthy defense on the talk pages. While my arguments that certain articles did have to be balanced were later accepted and vindicated, it was my posture not suitably diffident for an unfamiliar contributor, not the nature of my work, that had me subject to great suspicion. Since then, I've been thoroughly vetted, having learned to get a point across on talk pages.

I'm not the only example of the virtues of hazing new contributors. Frankly, we all should be glad that we scared off a number of new contributors, such as user:Nostrum, an obnoxious, semi-literate prick in his early twenties who was convinced that he knew everything due to his claims that he had a high IQ. This user was being a narcissistic jackass insisting that he add his semi-literate rants on subjects that he admittedly didn’t understand, such as Catholicism. 172 08:20, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

172, you've given a blueprint for how Wikipedia can be transformed from a global collaborative effort to a closed community clique. I agree that Wikipedia needs to be self-policing, but the WAY in which the policing is conducted can make the difference between a steady long-term contributor such as yourself, and someone completely lost to us, or worse a dedicated vandal. Certainly, be ruthless in defending the text and NPOV . . . a great way to teach "be bold" . . . but it doesn't take much energy to be gentle with and polite to the PEOPLE behind the writing. There is certainly no need to deliberately making things more difficult for them, which is what hazing would be. clarka

Ideally, the project is a global collaborative effort. In practice, it is a tight clique, or group of dozens of overlapping cliques, with a rigid hierarchy of users who are more influential than others. Influence depends on a number of qualities, such as the amount of good will a user has accumulated, his personality, his ability, the extent of his contributions, his class (such as anon, registered user, sysop, and developer), and his seniority. You cannot underestimate the informal, unstated culture of the site. The personal component is important, just like in every institution. While there is a degree of egalitarianism not seen in the real world, whether we like it or not, new users will either sink or swim. I agree that it is necessary to be deferential and tolerant of new users, to which I greatly benefited. But the harsher treatment that I received was also brought on by myself as a new contributor not familiar with the personalities, cliques, and structures of the project. 172 09:04, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

So, we have an ideal of a global collaborative project and a reality of cliques and hierarchies. So instead of reinforcing that reality we should be working towards the ideal. Treating newcomers with respect and tolerance is an easy way to move away from the current reality and towards the ideal. OK, so we will always have some level of hierarchy, that's human nature - long-time prolific contributors will always have higher status. But what you seem to be saying here is that those that survive the bullying get to be bullies themselves when they grow up. That's not a world I want to be in. If I had had a hostile welcome when I joined I wouldn't be here now. I was lucky not to bump into anyone's touchy areas - I'm generally non-combative and my areas of interest are not controversial ones. But if my interest had been say, Irish-Israeli politics instead of dog breeds and Grammy awards, I doubt I would have stayed at Wikipedia. I believe polite and respectful correction of errors is more effective than hazing in teaching community norms - and we loose less potential contributors that way. -- sannse 10:20, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)