Talk:Moroccan Western Sahara Wall

Phrasing

"Since the barrier is in multiple sections a double barrier with a substantive distance its parts, many Sahrawis are captured in between the walls." -- This is incredibly poorly phrased.

Is it trying to say -- "Since, at many places, the barrier is a double barrier with a significant distance between the two halves, many Sahrawis are captured (arrested?) in the middle."

Or is it trying to say -- "Since, at many places, the barrier is a double barrier with a significant distance between the two halves, many Sahrawis are forced to live in this no-mans-land."

Thank you for your comments. Please feel free to edit as you understand the text. Best regards, Gidonb 17:05, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

If I understood the text I would edit it. As I don't understand it, I can't and someone who knows about this topic needs to. --- sgb

In the meantime, I edited the texts with some help from your comments. Thanks and keep up the good work, Gidonb 07:27, 1 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Just one thing: Bedouins that are living between the walls are permitted to cross at specified checkpoints, provided that they are unarmed. Morocco claims that the wall is not being used as a regular personnel stopping border, but as a military means to stop armed fighters. --213.146.115.42 16:22, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Picture Material

Nice article on a fascinating subject everyone. I remember reading somewhere that it's the phosphate mines that the wall protects and that the money from these has paid for some very high tech monitoring techniques along the wall. Although I don't want to detract from the huge human cost, has anyone got any more details or pictures on the structure of the Wall itself? adamsan 20:12, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hello Adamsan, I only found a map in a linked article. Unfortunately it is protected by copyright. No pictures. Gidonb 22:43, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Disputed Statement

"Effectively, Polisario controls all areas to the east of the barrier; however, these areas are mostly uninhabited." This sentence is disputed by Morocco, which claims that its army and police forces regularly patrol the complete Western Sahara (the territory claimed by Morocco) on both sides of the Wall. They claim this by airing documentaries on TV and showing satellite pictures. Wether it is true or not, is difficult to assess. Since it's disputed, shouldn't it be mentioned in the article? --213.146.115.42 16:16, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

===>Sure. That's certainly fair. I'm all for including the relevant information. Justin (koavf) 18:34, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

I have no objection against including Moroco's claim. gidonb 18:59, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I do, since it is plainly absurd. Morocco could not possibly patrol the whole of Western Sahara, since it is barred from this by UN peace keeping forces since 1991 (the mission is called MINURSO. I believe maps can be found at www.un.org). Only a few, limited breaches of this has ever been reported. Conversely, the Polisario is not allowed to approach the Moroccan positions (i.e. the wall). I have been to the Polisario held parts of Westenr Sahara, and while there are plenty of Polisario guerillas and bedouins, Moroccan soldiers or policemen would be shot on sight. -ARRE.

Stephen Zunes

Marsden, here's the information you requested:

"For most of the war, the Moroccans attempted to depict the Polisario as essentially an Algerian creation. Many strategic analysts in the United States have also depicted the conflict as something of a proxy war between the two most powerful Maghrebi states. However, Algeria supported another independence movement for a period in 1973, rebuffing requests for assistance from the Polisario. Following the launching of the armed struggle in Algeria gave some limited support to the Polisario,(12) not throwing their full support to the movement until 1975 and then, only reluctantly."

[...]

"The Algerians claim that their support for the Polisario is simply a matter of principle, of helping a neighboring country in need. Algerian support was crucial in the initial humanitarian relief efforts and in assisting the Polisario in its formation of the SADR, though Algeria has remained a respectful distance from the activities in the Polisario-controlled refugee camps, which - while located within Algerian territory - are given effective autonomy and the SADR flag flies alone. The Algerian approach to supporting the Polisario was a two-pronged military and diplomatic strategy: Keeping Morocco bogged down and embarrassed on the battlefield while winning a series of victories in the international arena. They were largely successful in this regard. Algerian President Houari Boumedienne refused to talk to Morocco on principle and had a strong ideological commitment to the Polisario. His successor, Chadli Benjedid, was more pragmatic and moderate than his predecessor, both in foreign and domestic policy, engaging in domestic liberalization and pursuing friendlier relations with the United States, France, and Morocco, but he continued Algeria's support for the Polisario. Far from being an Algerian puppet, the Polisario has always maintained a distinct identity in terms of its desire for independence, its own agenda distinct from Algeria's and its own autonomous political organization and decision-making. However, it is highly dependent on Algeria for food, supplies, arms, and sanctuary. Therefore, it has long been recognized that a major reduction or elimination of Algerian support would have serious consequences to the Sahrawi independence movement."

- Zunes, Stephen. (1995). "Algeria, the Maghreb Union, and the Western Sahara stalemate". Arab Studies Quarterly. Summer. v17 n3 p23(14).

I don't see any reference to the 1963 attack -- is there more? And it sounds like the characterization of Algeria's support for the Polisario as being part of a proxy war against Morocco is denied by Algeria -- shouldn't the article at the very least phrase this characterization as opinion rather than fact? Marsden 19:25, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Map

I just want to say Astrokey44 did a terrific job with the map. This page just got so much better. Arre 02:16, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks alot! I hope it was alright - I was a little confused about one thing - area under Moroccan control. I think that Morocco controlled most of the country since 1975 or whenever it was, and its been the wall thats expanding (territorial expansion has not gone with the wall - they controlled most of the territory even though it wasnt all behind the wall). So I put it on the map as territory behind the wall by *year*, I hope thats right. I mean, they controlled most of the territory in 1982 but only part of it was behind the wall? I'm repeating myself here cause its confusing to explain, does that make any sense? Astrokey44 04:01, 4 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]