Talk:Rigoberta Menchú

is it true that her biography is a hoax?

I think the allegations of fraud are too important to be left on another page, there should be more about it on the main page. My main problem is this sentence "Detractors claim that the book contains many fabrications", the claims are true the book is false, so I have taken out the sentence. I have done a google search and have found nothing about Pres. Clinton supposed apology the only thing I found was this quote "United States . . . support for military forces or intelligence units which engaged in violent and widespread repression . . . was wrong." unless someone can find a link to an actual apology the remarks do not belong on the page.

stevenscollege

The US support for military regimes in Guatemala which violated human rights has been widely proven, go read ther other articles about Guatemalean history.

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It MUST be remembered that in helping Central American governments to destroy Moscow's proxies, we were also defending ourselves. Clearly a Red Central American would have meant a Red Mexico. For the consequences of what that would have meant I direct you to John Milius' excellent movie Red Dawn (the fact that Lib-Lefties hate it so much is proof of how closely it hits the mark).

In the 90s, Guatemalan government created something similar to South African's "Truth and Reconciliation" commission. It reached conclusions that both sides, the American-backed government trying to keep the country from becoming another Leninist hell-hole and the Moscow-supplied and supported terrorists were both guilty of atrocities. Given the fact that communists murdered 100,000,000 people--a conservative estimate--in the 20th century alone (and are torturing and killing people are you read this) is proof enough that the communists are by far the guiltier party.

Let me put it this way, any group that took aid from Hitler (say Franco's regime) is still execrated, often mindlessly, by the Left. If that's the standard, then any group that took aid from the Leninist-Stalinist Politburo is just as worthy of execration. PainMan 08:42, 30 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

100,000,000 people? Where did you get that crap? I thought the first communist country was established in 1917. Got their names, like how the Jew have all the id of those killed in the Holocaust? And does that justify what you Americans have done to fight communism? Some of your so-called 'hellholes' are much exaggerated by your propaganda machine, clearly your head is still in the 1960's. In fact life in countries such as Cuba and China are nowhere near your so called Leninist hellholes.

And I love the film 'Red Dawn', because it justifies resistence to protect your country from invaders, whatever their so called cause, much like the Iraqi resistence.

I find it extremely interesting, and might I add very satisfying to see the hard left that once shilled for and made excuses for the Soviets, now doing the same for Islamic fundamentalists. As for the US going to far to stop the spread of communism, ask yourself this, would you have rather lived in West Germany or East Germany during the cold war? Would you rather live in North Korea or South Korea today? Would you rather live in China or Taiwan? TDC 13:41, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

China. Have you seen the growth rates there? But I'm no communist. I just wish Honduras had such growth rates, as there would be fortunes to be made, SqueakBox 14:11, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

They are still quite a ways from Taiwan in lving standards, and you could not edit Wikipedia from behind the Great Firewall of China. TDC 21:16, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

(Edit: Originally directed to PainMan, but TDC and Squeakbox added comments in between)That's one interesting interpretation, however I don't think, if far-leftists had taken power in a Central American country, that they would have turned so dictatorial had it not been for disturbances coming from the exterior. You've got to agree that, for example, in Cuba, things like the embargo and the Bay of Pigs are what made Castro more paranoid and his regime more hardline.

BTW, the 100 million deaths is not a conservative estimate by any means. It came up in the Black book of communism, which was a collection of many articles, directed by Stéphane Courtois I think. He himself came up with that number but several people dispute it, including many who contributed to the book. Besides, it can be argued that several of these deaths are the result mostly of totalitarism, which in those specific cases took the form of a communist government, or one that claimed to be communist. And sometimes it was done by simply insane people. I mean come on, can we really call, say, Pol Pot and Kim Jong-Il communists? They're just crazy, that's what I say. Anyway, back to the topic, Rigoberta Menchu, err, what does she have to do with any of this? She might have been a marxist, but certainly not stalinist.

She may not be a Stalinist, bus she sure is a lying sack of shit. TDC 00:05, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Sack of shit I don't know, there's lots of worse people out there, and she didn't harm anybody, but I think everybody were already agreeing she was a liar, that's not an issue.

True, there are worse liars out there, but few won Nobel prizes for their lies. TDC 16:26, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Actually I thought she was a capitalist (see latest entry). She certainly backed Berger and opposed FRG's pro Indian rob the rich to give to the (FRG supporting) poor, SqueakBox 17:49, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Something tells me she is most definitely not a capitalist. TDC 13:41, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

Another Marxian Liar & Stooge of Moscow

Menchu is an admitted liar and a Marxian propagandist. She would have been right at home in the Lubyanka before 1991. Even the New York Times--an organization hardly less zealous in transmitting propaganda than the KGB--published articles about Menchu's fabrications. She admitted her lies in an AP story found in the New York Times archives.*

The equivication in the article is simply unacceptable. Therefore I have edited it to present the factual picture. One has either lied or one has told the truth about a given set of facts. Claiming, as some Communist apologists and supporters of the Moscow-led terrorist campaign against the Guatemalan government do, that "facts" are irrelevant simply reveals the Left's utter contempt for the truth.

The following letter--from the NY Times--is quoted under the Fair Use provisions of US Law:

To the Editor:

The Nobel committee gave Rigoberta Menchu the peace prize because she supposedly speaks for all the Indians of the American continent (news item, Dec. 18). Nonsense. Ms. Menchu, a Marxist ideologue, not only didn't even speak for most Indians in her own country, as suggested in your Dec. 15 front-page article, she supported the Sandinistas' [genocidal] repression of the Miskito and other Indians of Nicaragua in the early 1980's.

It is no surprise the Nobel committee will not revoke her prize, for much of this was known -- though now in greater detail -- before the prize was awarded. That's because Ms. Menchu fit the committee's political agenda, and it just hoped that no one would ever catch it up in such detail. A touch of justice has prevailed.

WILLIAM RATLIFF Stanford, Calif., Dec. 18, 1998

The writer is a senior research fellow at the Hoover Institution.

Published: 12 - 20 - 1998 , Late Edition - Final , Section 4 , Column 4 , Page 12

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02E2DD143CF933A15751C1A96E958260

Despite her lies and support of Moscow's attempt to conquer Latin America and other crimes against freedom, the laughable Nobel Committee has not, to my knowledge, revoked the travesty of Menchu's Peace Prize. But the Stockholm committee did award the same prize to the vicious, unrepentant murder Yasser Arafat and another, only slightly more repentent killer of babies, Nelson Mandela.

Compare and contrast the treatment received by Kurt Waldheim, against whom war crimes charges were never brought, let alone admitted, and the treatment given to former and present Communists. Waldheim was savaged for merely belonging to a German military unit accused of war crimes while an admitted murderer like former KGB Gen. Oleg Kalugin and a suporter of mass murder like Rigoberto Menchu are given a free pass. That Socialism, Leftism and Liberalism are the vestibule of Stalinism cannot be seriously disputed by anyone conversant with the history of Marxism-Leninism. Not only are people still being murdered by Communist governments as you read this (2005), but their fellow travelers in the West are still murdering the truth as well.

*Peace Prize Winner Admits Discrepancies

( By The Associated Press ) 244 words Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 12 , Column 1

DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 244 WORDS - A Nobel Peace Prize winner conceded yesterday that she mixed the testimony of other victims of Guatemala's civil war with her own life story in her account, I, Rigoberta ... Scholars have questioned the accuracy of some episodes described in the book, published in 1983...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50D14F63D5E0C718DDDAB0894D1494D81&incamp=archive:search

PainMan 01:47, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect sources

I'm the anthropologist quoted -with some significant errors- in "Controversies about her autobiography," which I'm about to try to correct. Rigoberta Menchú's life story is not a hoax or fraud because she lost both her parents, two brothers, a sister-in-law and three nieces and nephews to the Guatemalan security forces. Wikipedia is a fascinating concept, but like the majority of journalism it is no substitute for going to actual sources. The sources in this case would include Rigoberta's 1983 life-story, my Rigoberta Memchu and the Story of All Poor Guatemalans (1999), and perhaps the Arturo Arias-edited collection The Rigoberta Menchu Controversy (2001).

Do be aware of our Wikipedia:No original research policy. You can put your own research here as long as it has been published elsewhere. Go for it, SqueakBox 19:31, 15 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If you are David Stoll, please explain the following discrepancies in your additions.

Unfortunately, his success led to a never-ending dispute with his wife's relatives, in the Tum family, who claimed some of the same land.

The reason is that she in fact lost both her parents, two brothers, a sister-in-law and three nieces and nephews to the Guatemalan security forces.

It was my understanding that the father was killed by his relatives in a land dispute. TDC 16:32, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant material

And I putting it right back Gamaliel. How dare you appoint yourself censor?? If we aren't free to discuss what we like, what's the point of a discussion page? It's entierly natural that other topics will be drawn in. I don't care if you are one these self-important twits who call themselves moderators, or whatever. PainMan 22:15, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Not only that but lies and inaccuracies and Leftist propaganda has been allowed to sit here for months. It's only a problem when a conservative American starts hitting back? Methinks thou art showing thy true color, Gamy, baby. PainMan 22:21, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This has nothing to do with Menchu. Please keep the discussion on track, SqueakBox 22:30, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry I did not step in sooner, but that is not an excuse for prolonging an entirely irrelevant debate. This page is not for ideological debates and I have once again removed irrelevant material. Gamaliel 23:39, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As I said below I think this article has big problems but they are not of an ideological nature. PainMan's contribution contained very very angrey point of view which clearly is not acceptable here, nor is discussion about whether the commun ists were right or wrong except as it impinges on this article. What we need is more content and then to present thatr content with all relevant strands of opinion, SqueakBox 00:34, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Poor article

The article explains nothing about how she got to be famous. To be honset the lack of info is baffling, SqueakBox 22:34, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

HEM

00:49, 3 December 2005 TDC (rv)
00:37, 3 December 2005 Ruy Lopez (stalking? Who started the stalking today of who?)
00:26, 3 December 2005 TDC (rv to 11/23 version of Gamaliel, I would appreciate it if Ruy Lopez stoped stalking me)
3 December 2005 Ruy Lopez (rv)
20:14, 2 December 2005 TDC (rv to 11/23 version of Gamaliel, no explanation for large removal of material)

This little revert war is now over and people will kindly come here and resolve their differences by discussing, is it not ? Rama 23:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]