Talk:Black Irish

Mythical Status

My father must be a myth then as he was born into a farming family near the West Coast of Ireland and is darker than most Spanish/Italians. There is no doubt in my mind that much historical information about the Irish has been subverted and obscured over the centuries for political and religious purposes. The occurrence of dark skinned Irish, especially along the west coast of Ireland, is significant enough to warrant further investigation.

--220.245.178.134 00:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC)CS

The point is not that there are not dark Irish. Obviously, there are. There are a lot of Irish people with dark hair and dark complexions, and there always have been. The real "subversion" has been the (American) conventional wisdom that all Irish are pale skinned and light or red-haired.

I have no idea what "political and religious purposes" you are talking about.

Jbull 03:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Jbull, the "political and religous purposes" are in reference to the Anti-Irish immigration attitudes in the U.S. in the 19th Century and early 20th Century. Irish were portrayed as dogged-looking leprechauns with hellish red hair and were characterized as being "subversive" by nature. The dominant class in America during this time was Anglo-Saxon and Protestant. Seeing an influx of Irish-Catholics in the major developed areas of American society was perceived as a threat to their environment.

Agree with Jbull. Babajobu 14:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Category

I added the caregory: Category:Anthropological categories of people, i.e., a category of people based on their antropological traits: there are two major kinds of them: Physical anthropology, which deals with physical traits of people and Cultural anthropology, which deals with cultures, societies, etc. "Black Irish" def is based on physical traits, hence dealt with physical antropology. mikka (t) 21:22, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Physical anthropology deals with groups of people with shared physical traits. There is no distinct population of "Black Irish." There are just Irish people, the majority of whom have brown hair. Listing the fictional "Black Irish" under "Anthropological categories of people" would be like listing another made-up category like "Black-haired Chinese." It's redundant and confusing. I'm removing it again.--Jbull 22:59, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for using the talk page. Even if it is a mistaken theory, the category is correct. We have articles is "Race" category for terms deemed incorest and obsolete, but still they are in the antropological category. Please don't confuse a scientific classification or real life with classification of articles.

Anyway, right now the dispute is purely academic, since it turns out there is a better category. You should have used it yourself, if you are expert in things Irish (whicle I am not). mikka (t) 04:48, 26 December 2005 (UTC)