Talk:Carlos Castaneda

Hi,

Where does Castaneda's biographical information come from? Thanks, Yann 22:18 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)

Probably from the books. ==> Es02 10:56(AEST) 20 May 2003

No. There is practically no personal information about himself in his books. Some of it might be speculative, and some might come from independent researchers who in turn wrote books or articles about him.

It is a compilation of what he told others, interviews, etc. In other words, the most likely scenario. There were also records from UCLA, the immigration department,and peru.

Some Suggestions For Improvement

I see what you mean by the word self-stalking, but eventually it does include the world and other worlds too. Actually since the emanations inside the cocoon (the ones used for awareness and perception) match the ones outside, it would be fair to say it is stalking the universe.

The article's current form is fairly informative and even-handed, but it could use some polish.

One thing that should be emphasized is Castaneda's protean nature. As documented most notably in "Castaneda's Journey" and "The Don Juan Papers," both edited by Charles de Mille, and "A Magical Journey with Carlos Castaneda" by Margaret Runyon (Castaneda's ex-wife), Castaneda had a history of giving contradictory or ambiguous information about himself. Given the doubts that these authors and others have raised about Castaneda's truthfulness, it might be better to say that Castaneda "allegedly" met Don Juan Matus in 1960. Of course, Castaneda's work has never been proven entirely fraudulent either, despite whatever doubts have been raised about certain elements of it.

A more glaring matter for the article as a whole is that it uses a lot of Castaneda's jargon without really explaining what is meant. Summarizing twelve books' worth of information is difficult to do, but there should probably be some more basic description of the sorcery concepts allegedly learned by Castaneda, so that the unfamiliar reader will not be entirely lost. For example, in the current article such terms as "Toltec," "Warrior," "Eagle," "Dreaming," and "Stalking," among certain others, have very specialized meanings that need to be explained further. There is no mention of "Tonal," and "Nagual," and there is also no explanation of the structure of the warrior's party (the five types of men and the five types of women).

Merge from Carlos Castenada (you say tomato...

I have endeavored to combine these two articles, but the result could certainly use more work; in particular I have not tried to incorporate the suggestions made above. Mwanner 18:28, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

Anthropologist ???

From what I understand, it is generally held in the scientific community that Castaneda certainly wasn't an anthropologist and his books are novels, not "an anthropologist's journal". I see this has been pointed out in the article, but only as an equally valid, alternative position. Castaneda was not an anthropologist and he should not be categorised as such, lest we fool another generation into taking his work at face value. --Pappa 12:31, 4 August 2005 (UTC) It is always interesting to me how speculation and interpretation plays such an important part in this discussions. At the same time it is assumed that speculation makes it true. That is never the case. In reality, Carlos Castenada did travel with a number of people. Some were "seers", who had clarity and seeing. Others were apprentices. The one I am aware of was a man from Canada who travelled with Carlos a number of times and was instrumental in helping him with his later books because he was a Chemist or a Chemical Engineer and brought special meaning to the "organic" and "inorganic" views of intervention. After attending classes that Carlos gave in California, I became aware of this man and for many years after tried to find him in the United States and also in Canada. To my knowledge he has disappeared and part of this may be his conflict with the Warrior tradition of Don Juan. December 2005 - Marcus Dominici (UCLA)

Has anybody verified Castañeda's degrees? According to http://chiapas.mediosindependientes.org/display.php3?article_id=116634 he never obtained any degree from UCLA. If he got a Ph.D. from UCLA it should be in their library catalog, but it isn't. -- Daniel Eisenberg

Re: Anthropologist???

He was indeed an anthropologist, graduated at UCLA. And perhaps what you arbitrarily call "scientific community", excluding any and all references to factual proof that his work is fictional, is something we should be wary of taking at face value as well. An encyclopedia article, by the way, is precisely designed to provide "equally valid and alternative positions". There are many other places where one can engage in discussions and arguments over any given subject matter. Thus, "we", who simply expose unbiased information for the encyclopedia cannot become a "we" that oversees the subjective content of an article to make it fit our own personal views.

Jan F.

I have not seen these "factual" claims that it is fiction, even after seeing some of those crappy 3rd party books you mention. Even the other people who write there own versions of Don Juan I would not recommend taking to seriously.

I read De Mille's first book, "The Power and the Allegory". Personally, I am in no doubt that Castenada was a complete charlatan. As to whether he was an anthropologist... Yes, he did earn his Masters and then his PhD from his research -- research it seemed to me that De Mille exposed as fraudulent. So, officially, he was an anthropologist. It wouldn't surprise me if his PhD was UCLA's most embarrassing mistake. I suspect that everyone there now realizes he was a fraud, but that the mechanism for retracting his degree was just too complicated, so they let it slide. I doubt he wrote a single academic paper following his graduation.

For those of you who haven't read "The Power and the Allegory", De Mille compared "The teachings of Don Juan: A Yacqui way of Knowledge" with Castenada's library stack requests. The stack requests documented that he was sitting in the library when his journal said he was squatting in Don Juan's hut. One of the most memorable discoveries the De Mille made in his examination of the stack requests was that when CC said he was participating in the traditional peyote ceremony -- the least fantastic episode of drug use -- he was not only sitting in the library, but he was reading someone else's description of their experience of the peyote ceremony.

I am going to change back the introductory paragraphs to say that CC claimed to have met a Shaman named Don Juan. -- Geo Swan 04:24, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I have a different view of all of this, in that it would have been very hard to invent all the concepts he wrote about. The names, places, and times could have been altered or partly fictional. It would be fair to say he wrote the first book for his anthropology degree, but he never claimed to be a practicing anthropologist. I am just glad someone from the Toltec tradition wrote about their knowledge in this fashion, because it almost has no parallel, or maybe other cultures have forgotten.

Your right it would be hard to "invent all the concepts he wrote about." To be sure, much of what he wrote about was part of popular philosophy at the time--thats one of the things that critics point to as suspicious about the works. Not only that, but each succesive books seemed to follow trends in the New Age movement. Of course he didn't "invent all the concepts", very little thought and creativity be it in the form of fiction or non-fiction is ever truly original. De Mille even shows that the basic structure and idea of the story is suspiciously similar to some other works of fiction that were popular in Castaneda's childhood. And don't be so sure that you are reading someone from the Toltec tradition. Thats the whole controversy: is it really a work about the Toltec tradition. I think there is ample reason to doubt it. But its still an open question. --Brentt 09:30, 6 November 2005 (UTC) It is always interesting to me how speculation and interpretation plays such an important part in this discussions. At the same time it is assumed that speculation makes it true. That is never the case. In reality, Carlos Castenada did travel with a number of people. Some were "seers", who had clarity and seeing. Others were apprentices. The one I am aware of was a man from Canada who travelled with Carlos a number of times and was instrumental in helping him with his later books because he was a Chemist or a Chemical Engineer and brought special meaning to the "organic" and "inorganic" views of intervention. After attending classes that Carlos gave in California, I became aware of this man and for many years after tried to find him in the United States and also in Canada. To my knowledge he has disappeared and part of this may be his conflict with the Warrior tradition of Don Juan.

Somebody's question

There was a question just after the phrase "neither Eastern nor Western" that belonged here on the talk page:

(what about Northern or Southern(shamanism, Australia,African?))

I didn't bother looking through the history to find out who it was, but I also hope nobody has to answer this question. The article needs a serious rewrite.--Rockero420 02:00, 1 December 2005 (UTC)