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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Kdammers (talk | contribs) at 08:17, 29 December 2005 (No defense?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

I suggest all three articles be merged (someone has to do the editing) under a new heading, Linear Ware culture. The is the title used used by James P. Mallory in his article in the Encyclopedia of Indo-European Culture. --FourthAve 04:16, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Google results to help inform any decision on this question:
    • "Linearbandkeramik": 3,770
Many of these results are not in English. Searching only English-language pages gives 651 pages, therefore, less than "Linear pottery culture". bogdan ʤjuʃkə | Talk 11:34, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Good point, having now had a look at Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(use_English), I guess we should discount the German options. adamsan 11:45, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Linearbandkeramic": 815
    • "Linear pottery culture": 756
    • LBK +archaeology: 521
    • "Linear ceramic culture": 220
    • "Linear band keramik": 43
    • "Linear ware culture": 12


The usual disclaimer about Google tests and academic terms applies but Linearbandkeramik seems overwhelmingly popular and is the term I am most familiar with myself. If there's a policy on translating foreign terms into English though then I'd go with FourthAve's suggestion. Otherwise let's fill in that redlink. adamsan 10:53, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I know it exclusively under the name Linear Pottery Culture, this is how it is usually translated in Europe outside Germany. Linearbandkeramic is a linguistical non-sense; Linearbandkeramik is a German name, but there is no reason to use the German name here and archaeological cultures are always translated if they do not refer to a geographical name (which is not the case here)...Juro 16:44, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merger

This has been a tough one. I have moved to Linear Band Ware culture simply because this is the name JP Mallory uses in EEIC. For those who contributed to the earlier articles, you are welcome to see what you can do with it. The Linearbandkeramic article was particularly good. --FourthAve 21:17, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

LBW is the most common name in English afaik. why are we back at "Linear pottery culture"? dab (ᛏ) 21:19, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I might be biased by my years in a German university and as a practicing archaeologist dealing primarily with LBK, but I prefer 'LBK' or 'Linearbandkeramik.' I am unfamiliar with 'LBW' (or does Dbachmann mean 'Linear Band Ware' by that?) In all my reading in various languages, I never, to the best of my memory, came across 'Linearbandkeramic,' yet this gets so many hits in Google. On the other hand, Amazon's search inside gives one Linearbandkeramik and two linear pottery culture hits in books written in English - and no hits for the others. Google scholar (much more appropriate than Google for this sort of topic) has Linearbandkeramic: 0, Linearbandkeramik (in English): about 54 (out of a total of about 76, LBK neolithic: 44, linear band ware: 0, Linear pottery culture: 44. I don't like 'Linear pottery culture' especially if it is in lower case, since it looks like a (vague) descriptive term that could apply to various styles. The free version of the EB has only the following: 1 hit for 'Linear Pottery culture' (in an article about Dutch neolithic); 2 hits for 'LBK' - one of which is the title article. At the moment, I do not have access to the full EB (book or electronic) nor other archaeological reference works, but I think we (i.e., some-one with a decent European archaeology library) should check these - they're much more meaningful here than what is written on the Internet.

Europe in the Neolithic : The Creation of New Worlds (Cambridge World Archaeology) (Paperback) by Alasdair W. R. Whittle uses LBK. Cunliffe's Oxford Illustrated Prehistory of Europe has Linear Pottery culture (with LBK given in parentheses in the index). 211.225.34.182 01:42, 22 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Additions and Editing

Hi, folks. This has got the makings of a good article. First of all, I would like to say that all these names are most inappropriate, as the scholars point out every once in a while. The ware is not linear and does not feature any linear decoration. Neither is it primarily banded, though some of it contains bands. No, appropriateness lies elsewhere, and that is the reason for this extended discussion. But, tradition speaks with a loud voice, as we all fear our fathers. So, we modify tradition until it suits us. I'm totally happy with Linear pottery culture. At least the decoration is incised lines, even though curved or in rectangular shapes. Even the little punctures are often in a line, seen from the side. I would have liked LBK because of its brevity, but Linear Banded Ware Culture or Linearbandkeramikkultur sound totally weird and foreign and make incomprehensible something that ought not to be. We aren't trying to use a specialized lingo designed only for specialists. They don't need any encyclopedia. They have the journals and each other.

So, I'd like to go on from here. I notice the article is interesting but a bit sketchy. Also, there is a major player not on the field, Marija Gimbutas. She only died in person, not in scholarship (which lives forever). I happen to have some of the books so I am going to try to fill this out a bit if that is OK with you. You'll see my edits there.Botteville 00:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

PS. Obviously, the one to work on is Linear Pottery culture, as it is better English and a better structure.Botteville 00:37, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Balcanic? The first time I saw this, it took me a long time to realize "Balkan" was meant; this is the only place I've ever enountered the word. I've changed it to the instantly understandable "Balkan". --FourthAve 19:04, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm replacing the Eastern Linear etc. section. It wasn't saying much and what it said was wrong. There was no way I could fit it into the Bukk Culture as portrayed by Gimbutas. I did add a description of the Bukk Culture.Botteville 02:41, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

________________________________

This page is written from the victor's point of view. We now know that the LBK DECIMATED the indiganous paleolithic population within 300 years. Check out all the stuff Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza's team came up with. Seriously. These people were genocidal on a serious level. Given the the only know decendents of Europe's first peoples (the Baske) are STILL fighting this war, i think a less one-sided page is in order.

-jordan f 23 October 2005

Write it, man, write it. Do you have a broken hand?Botteville 04:34, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

No defense?

I'm not sure, but I think the LBK villages in the Leine valley had fencing around them (unless I'm mixing this up with Roessen culture). The nature of the fencing suggests "defense" against wild animals. On the other hand, Jonas Christensen (“Warfare in the European Neolithic,” Acta Archaeologica 75:142,144 ) discusses a number of enclosed LBK sites, including one that replaced a burned unenclosed site. He also mentions a site in Austria with a large number of skeletons with weapon-induced trauma (p. 136).

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