Talk:Zaragoza

A Google English-language search gave 23,600 hits for Saragossa (including many historical references) and 171,000 for Zaragoza. There's lots of noise, but we're talking almost an order of magnitude. Should we throw this one over? -Montréalais 07:34, 6 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, and I got over four million pages for "Milano" even though it is indisputably "Milan" in English. Don't be a Google slave. Take into account these factors that boost the numbers you get for "Zaragoza".

Most people are ignorant and don't know what the name is. They may read it off maps, which give the local name. The fact that historians call it "Saragossa" shows that educated people call it so.
Most (again ignorant) people are familiar with the city through its football team, and football teams always use the local name.
Many pages are counted as English when they are actually not.
Many pages are not written by native speakers of English.
A minority of people just like saying "Zaragoza", "Milano", "Italia", "München", etc. to show off, or out of some idea that it's more correct.
The spelling "Zaragoza" found online disguises the fact that everyone pronounces it "Saragossa" anyway.

"Saragossa" is the correct name, and will be used on Wikipedia. Anyone searching for "Zaragoza" will be redirected to the correct page. The fact that lots of people don't know what it is called is just an argument for making sure there is a redirect. —Chameleon 20:43, 11 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Please sign your comments.
Having done further Googling, I find that nearly all of the hits for "Milano" in the first few pages are uses of the name in clearly Italian-language contexts, such as Italian names of institutions. Even so, there are nearly identical numbers of hits for "Milan" as "Milano" (circa 3 million each). By contrast, there are presently upwards of 20 times more hits for Zaragoza than Saragossa, and many more hits in the first few pages that use it in an English-language context. Many of the links to Saragossa are in a historical context, not a current one.
Both of my English atlases give "Zaragoza" as the name of the city, even when giving other English-language names such as Seville, Rome, and Milan.
I have never heard the city called Saragossa outside of Wikipedia before now.
Even if we were to decide to use Saragossa as the article for the city, I deny that we ought to have the province at Saragossa (province). It is a Spanish administrative division, rarely referred to in English, and ought to use the Spanish name, just as we had Seville being the capital of the province of Sevilla before you intervened.
In conclusion, the general rule is to use the most common name used by speakers of English. You have admitted above that the name most commonly used by speakers of English (regardless of whether they are map-readers or footballers) is Zaragoza.

- Montréalais 15:54, 11 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

It comes down to point four: you don't know what the place is called. Why should you? You are a wiccan freak from North America. I have a signpost at the end of my road pointing to "Saragossa". —Chameleon 20:43, 11 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Personal attacks such as this, particularly against other people's religious beliefs, are not acceptable behaviour on Wikipedia. I have dealt with you politely. If you expect people to pay attention to your arguments, you would do well to treat other people with some manners. - Montréalais 22:30, 11 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Let's look at this logically, with an irrelevant example. "Czechoslovakia" gets 1 million hits. "Czech Republic" gets over 8 million hits. Obviously, the country is called the "Czech Republic" now. Google hits are, therefore, informative. </bad logic> ugen64 22:57, May 11, 2004 (UTC)

Taifas

I've been trying to find more...any, really...information about current taifas in Europe. The information I have found is rather scant. I would like to know more if anyone has knowledge of them or an idea of where I can learn more?