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Talk:D with stroke (disambiguation)

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Gryffindor (talk | contribs) at 20:24, 18 January 2006 (→Voting). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Older discussions

&Eth; and Đ are two different characters, as described in the disambiguation article.

However, the disambiguation article uses the Eth codepoint as the address.

-- Zhen Lin 14:32, 20 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Does Ð -- Ð map uniformly to Đ -- Đ? They look exactly the same to me, but it occurs to me that this might not be the case. --Shallot 15:14, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

No. For me, the bar in Đ is placed higher than the bar in Ð. Kairos 10:01, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I think the bar in Đ is supposed to be in the vertical middle. Is that so on your display? --Shallot 14:13, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Not quite. The bar in Đ is placed slightly above the middle on my display. It's fairly difficult to notice, but when you look at them side-by-side, it's apparent. Maybe it's just my font. Kairos 13:21, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)
In my font Đ is also narrower, FYI 202.180.83.6 05:25, 6 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The Faroese name of ð is edd, not "edh" (or eð)

see:

  • W.B. Lockwood: An Introduction to Modern Faroese Tórshavn 1977
  • Chr. Matras: Føroysk-Donsk Orðabók Tórshavn 1977 (Faroese-Danish Dictionary)

Arne List 11:20, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Restructuring

I propose following:

  1. Moving D with stroke to Đ, as Eth and others are not d with stroke in lowercase, but are Đ in upercase
  2. Moving Đ (slavic letter) to D with stroke
  3. Mergeing info on Vietnamese, Northern Sami, and Skolt Sami usage of the letter from (new) Đ disambig page to (new) D with stroke and leaving just a short note on Đ article that D with stroke is used in some Slavic languages, some Sami languages and Vietnamese language (because it is a disambig page)

My oppinion is that's waaay better organisation because now D with stroke links to letters whose lowercase is ð or ɖ, which is sipmly not d with stroke, and Đ is redirecting to Eth. I think Đ has to be disambig page linking to Eth, D with stroke and others.

support
  1. Dijxtra 19:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support. Although I think it's better to move the merged article to Đ because Eth uses a different codepoint, thus "Đ" does not really refer to eth. DHN 19:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
oppose
  1. "D with stroke" is an English title; "Đ" is not. Michael Z. 2006-01-17 01:05 Z
comments

Doesn't look quite right to me:

  • I wouldn't support a move to Đ. How do you pronounce that? Article titles should comprise English words when possible, certainly not single foreign characters. Titles are names of things, not the things.
    • Well, there are articles for A, B and so on... so the proposal seems to be consistent with current situation on Wikipedia .
  • In terms of letter-form, the Slavic D-stroke is a modified Latin D, identical to the glyph used in Vietnamese and Sami. The use of these letters in different languages could have separate articles, but I think there should be a single article for the Latin letter D with stroke.
    • We argee on that. I propose D with stroke to be article on all uses of Đ/đ, both slavic and non-slavic.
  • African D and Anglo-Saxon Eth are differently-modified Latin letters, so they should remain as a separate article, as is suggested. —Michael Z. 2006-01-16 19:17 Z
Of course there are articles on A and B; those are letters used in the English language, and they appear in English dictionaries. They can spell their own names in English. But we don't have articles entitled "Þ", "Ж", "香", or "₴" because those titles have no meaning to most English-language readers. Article titles are names of things, not the things.
English readers know how to pronounce "D", but how do you pronounce "Đ"? —Michael Z. 2006-01-17 01:05 Z
What do you call ß and Œ? DHN 04:05, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I call those articles which should be renamed to sharp s or eszett, ethel (letter), and æ to ash (letter). —Michael Z. 2006-01-17 16:18 Z
So, what do you propose? To leave things as they are? Because, current situation seems pretty ugly to me, and introducing Đ article wuold sort the things out (especially if we have ß and Œ precedents). --Dijxtra 07:49, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But we also have eth, thorn (letter), wynn, and yogh, which are better examples to follow.
I think the Latin D with stroke belongs here, including re-merging the Slavic letter with it. This becomes an article, and eth and African d are moved into its "see also" section. There is no need for a disambiguation page for this name. —Michael Z. 2006-01-17 16:18 Z
I disagree. The fact that you find ß and Œ are wrong names is of no importance here - they do exist, and that's all that matters. For the sake of clarity and user-frendliness, I think that the fact that Đ (eth) and Đ (d with stroke) do not have the same UNICODE code should not stop us from making Đ a disambig page. If DHN does not retreat his/her vote, you can try to move this discussion to some more populated place (as Help desk) or just accept the vote count... --Dijxtra 19:55, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Disambiguation pages are for different subjects that have the same title. "Eth" (ð) and "Latin D with stroke" (đ) do not have the same title, but of course since the letters have similarities, the articles should link to each other. Unicode code point isn't that important, although titling the articles "Ð" and "Đ" would be doubly confusing.
Furthermore, what is the point of a "disambiguation" page whose title is spelled with a D-stroke (Đ)? What are you disambiguating? If someone links to Eth or African D by the single letter name Ð or Ɖ, those are spelled differently, and there is no need for disambiguation. —Michael Z. 2006-01-17 20:32 Z

Sneaking it by

I just realized the requested move above hasn't been posted at requested moves. Until that happens, the above vote could be considered suspect. —Michael Z. 2006-01-17 20:37 Z

Well, OK. I'll propose it then, but not my fault if some admin does just one of the proposed and thus makes a bigger mess than currently exists. I just acted in manner of good faith and I get the impression you are trying to bureaucratize and complicate and things just because you don't like the vote count... fine, will get it your way then and see what happens. --Dijxtra 21:28, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't like the way a vote is being held to move a page without going through the correct procedure to publicize the move. You got that right. It's not "my way", it's required by Wikipedia:Requested moves. You can propose multiple moves or complex moves there. Have faith that consensus won't screw it up (it usually doesn't). —Michael Z. 2006-01-17 23:33 Z

Requested move

D with stroke → Đ – See here for ongoing discussion.

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Discussion

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