Talk:Newbie/Archive 1

Protection

I had requested ot have this article protected last week, as it was for 4 days. And since it was un-protected we have a ish-load of vandalism. Given the nature of this article, I highly reccomend this be protected for as long as possible in the future. ONly when we have a sandbox version of the next revision should it be unprotected, and only for that time. Theres just way too much vandalism --Larsinio 16:00, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I did request protection, someone unprotected it. Ill get it protected again --Larsinio 17:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

"ONly when we have a sandbox version of the next revision should it be unprotected, and only for that time." (sic) ...This seems a bit extreme. Assuming that this plan goes through, where will this sandbox be? And for that matter, what if this sandbox is vandalized? This article, because of its nature, gets vandalized, but that's no reason to protect it - vandalism will strike any unprotected, editable version. We can therefore never have an editable version. That, however, would be in violation of Wikipedia's principles by adding an extremely static nature to the page. While I understand the validity of your request in that this page is often vandalized, protection of the page also results in the blockage of valid edits that add to the article. Please find support or stop reprotecting this article; you're preventing valid edits from being made. Nihiltres 02:33, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I have been monitoring this articlke for a while, adn the valid edits you talk about or one or two minor grammatical fixes on the most part. On the other hand this page is vandalized many times a day.the sand box version can be anywhere, on anyones user page or something. Its not a big deal i think its the most practical way of dealing with thsi frequently vandalized page --Larsinio

Isn't this the type of article frequently vandalized by anons yet having little actual controversy with experienced editors, and thus perfectly fitting for the semi-protection? Elvarg 11:40, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Other changes

Re recent change: n00b or noob in leet (1337) -speak, is not the same.

What with that "pimmel" - stuff in German ? I don't think that is really realted to noob at all nor is it common tongue in German to call newbies. Pimmel is a slightly less strong version of dick or prick in German. I think that a paragraph should be deleted unless somebody comes up with a convincing justification and reference.

I've probably been on the internet longer than you. I say they mean they same but the term was created to be rude towards newcomers either way you look at it or to show your judgement towards a person by referring to them as a newcomer into the internet world (most of this happened in 94 when AOL was supposedly hip and new). Newbie is just more formal and properly spelled. n00b came about mainly because everyone liked leet talk. If you're like me you'll remember that there were progs and bots people could use to transform regular ascii alphabet into the other ascii that looked totally weird. Many progs created leet talk and replaced Os with 0s. N00b is just a fun way of saying noob in leet. Noob was created just like newb but people wanted to branch of and make it more cool. So people split between newb and noob and chose noob mainly because newb related to the formal term newbie. Thus noob came about. However, as the internet changed more and more people found ways to apply these new terms. When someone was a polite newbie people referred to them as a newbie. When someone asked the same question over and over they called them a noob. When someone became annoying and someone felt like acting stupid with leet in reply to them they may have used n00b. By the way if you're not a noob go do stuff in the request section in wikipedia for computer science. Also, noob was created as a shortcut way of newbie. However it's used on the internet in many different ways and the viewpoint towards it changes with each person.--Cyberman 05:24, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

So, how do they differ? --Menchi 04:53, Aug 13, 2003 (UTC)

"n00b" for someone who acts experieced in areas dispite little knowledge in those areas, also occasionally "pr013", short for "proletariat". (Various other adjectives abound, these being the most civil of them.) (from Leet). Gaurav 13:29, 16 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Should this page be put in Wikitionary?--Alsocal

Newbie = new bee? Really? A Google search for newbie "new bee" turns up this page as its first reference. According to the the Jargon File, the term originated in talk.bizarre, but no further information is given. Can anyone find a cite for this? --Ardonik 10:14, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I came to this article specifically to see the etymology and I have to say it seems extremely strained to me. My guess would have been a corruption of "new boy", but I'm certainly not going to suggest I'm right. Or, ooh! Perhaps I should! [1] [2] [3] - right, I'm making a change based on those. --bodnotbod 01:56, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

Is it really that complicated? I don't think it comes from "new bee" or "new boy". Can it just be a slangy way of identifying someone? Like "Cutie" or "Sweetie". Sometimes, I'll put -y or -ie on the end of a word then the word is "full of it's meaning", like "That has a strong grape taste to it. It's very Grape-y" I need more proof that it could have come from "new boy" mbishop 05:10, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

My understanding has long been that negative uses of the term predate the currently popular warm-and-fuzzy version. I've found some older references to "newbie" in a negative since but the only positive references I've found are fairly recent. I would appreciate any other input on this issue. Aranel 21:45, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This was just added: "A new usage of noob is appearing in computer games (mostly in First Person Shooters), generally to describe a cheater, a jerk, and quite possibly a person who constantly use one type of weapon (i.e, shotgun n00b)."

I removed it, because I'm not sure it's actually new (actually, I know it's not new). It's just a logical continuation of the standard derogatory meaning of the term. ("Since you appear not to know how to play properly or to succeed without cheating, you must be new.") I was using "newbie" the same way in different contexts at least eight years ago. ("You're behaving like you don't know the rules/conventions - you're new, right?") [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 00:56, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The "semantics" section was apparently removed alltogether after it was temporarily converted to a personal attack on August 18, 2005. Can someone return it? -- 00:17, 20 Aug 2005

Contradictions

We need to make it more clear the difference between a newbie/newb and a n00b/noob. The 'Negative connotations' section seems to describe a n00b rather than a newb, i.e., "a new user who asks allegedly "dumb" questions (typically questions which are clearly answered in a list of rules or frequent questions) and whose behavior does not conform to the accepted standards of the community (often to the point of rudeness)."

That's because a noob is a newbie. The term newbie originally (I think this is original, anyway) meant almost exactly the same thing that noob means today in some circles. In many places, a newbie is still someone who matches the above description, and a lot of folks who recall the older definition are still offended at being called newbie.

Basically, we can't really make a more clear distinction because there isn't one. A noob is the same thing as the negative version of newbie. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 16:47, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

No, on most websites n00b means a flaming, spamming, incomprehensible, idiotic fucktard. A newbie is just someone new to the site. It's n00b because it's a cross between a newbie and a 'boob' as in something useless. (Not that boobs are useless :)) However newbie is 'new bee'. LordMooCow 01:42, 3 July 2005 (GMT+10)

I must agree with LordMooCow as newbies can be intelligent. They may not know every aspect of the certain game or website, but they may read the FAQs and listen to what people are saying. Only ignorant people would classify newbies as a n00b as well because that would be a possible example of stereotyping and you wouldn't want that, would you? :) Kotoko 19:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Flaming

I'm a newbie myself, got to start by posting somewhere and this seemed like a sensible place.

Anyway, you use the word hazing. I was going to suggest the addition of the word flaming as it is frequently used in this context and actually describes the activity you are referring to more accurately.

Removed insertion

This was added after the first paragraph under n00b:

As time goes on, the term "n00b" is receiving a broader definition. It is now commonly used when referring to an especially stupid person regardless of how long they have actually interacted with the game, website, etc.

This is actually true, but it's redundant with information already in the article. (Also, it would be more accurate to say this of the word newbie, as n00b is a derivative of the former, and the two words are now practically identical in meaning.) -Aranel ("Sarah") 22:58, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Spelling

I have removed a section claiming that newb has a specialized meaning. I'm sure that it does have that meaning in the community where the editor who inserted it learned it, but that's not a distinction that is generally made.

As far as I have been able to determine (and I've been exposed to a lot of internet communities), the spelling does not generally make a big difference (or, rather, if you intend it to make a difference, that's fine, but outside of the community where you learned to make that distinction, you cannot it expect to be understood). In current usage, whether you spell it newbie, newb, n00b, etc., it increasingly means about the same thing. (In a couple of years we'll probably have to invent a whole new word if we want to tell the various usages apart!)

I do think that there are two broad trends: one meaning that is basically positive and one that is basically negative. However, which spelling is attached to which meaning (or whether both meanings exist in the same place at the same time) is increasingly arbitrary.

Within a particular community, noob might be used almost exclusively in a negative sense and newb might be self-deprecating, while newbie is a perfectly polite word for a newcomer. This is not standard. Within another community, all three might be consisted equally insulting, or equally inconsequential.

Maybe I'm not articulating this very well. People keep adding sections to this article about how such-and-such variation has such-and-such specific meaning, but I really don't think that's how the word in general actually works. -Aranel ("Sarah") 04:43, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

How people get this wrong

A n00b is not necessarily a new person. On a network, chat room, game. It is somebody who asks either dumb questions or acts like they know the answer to one and don't. Being a n00b is a BAD thing. However a newb, or newbie is a new person on a network, chat room, game, etc. that does not ask dumb questions and does not act like they konw all. Being a newb or newbie is not bad. So to sum it up, n00b is derogatory, newbie is either neutral or has a positive connotation to it. Anybody who claims to be on the internet longer then another person goes under the n00b list. As long as one is not cocky and knows what they are talking about, a new person can go without ever being called a n00b or newbie. Time means very little. One can be on the internet for 20 years, as soon as they go into a new chat room, they are a newbie because they do not have name recognition.

n00b == bad; newb && newbie == neutral || good;

n00b is just a 'l33t' way of spelling newbie... So if anyone is getting this wrong, it's you. Robrecht 22:58, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Nub?

Someone added "nub", an " (adorably clueless new player) " to the Etymology section. Doing a quick lookup on Google for "nub noob", it seems that it's merely another, yet shorter variant of "newbie" or "noob" and does not have any specific meaning related to adorable or clueless. Searching for "nub" brings up nothing related. I'm voting to modify or remove that entry, so please comment... I'm leaving it as is for now. Thanks, Nihiltres 16:10, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

jewb/j00b/jub/whatever

I'd say jewb has a pretty clear meaning... JEWb. It's implying the other person is a Jew, which is used provocatively and degradingly by some online users. My particular experiences with this word are on Bnet, where "warrers" (people who use bots to disrupt channel activity) frequently use jewb as an insult to get people riled up. Lantoka 02:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Irony

Damn noobs keep vandalising the article! --Croperz 03:32, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Yup! That's what us 13375 are here for. Nihiltres 06:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Im tempted

This page is getting very heavy vandalism and I'm tempted to place the AFD tag on this as it should be more of a Wiktionary Candidate and not here --JAranda | watz sup 06:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

It's only two stupid anons on different (but quite similar) IPs. Ban them, and it will almost completely quit. -- RattleMan 06:13, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

While it is true that this page receives heavy vandalism, it is, in my opinion at least, an encyclopedic topic. The vandalism it receives is natural given the topic: People (who are themselves noobs on Wikipedia!) post other people's names as examples; et cetera... the vandalism is minor and can be limited. Nihiltres 20:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Variants!

After having to tolerate many newbies to Wikipedia constantly adding new variants on the word "newbie", I'd like to organize this attempt at adding some of this information in a section for that purpose. If you happen to know of a variant on newbie, please add it to the list below, which I'll start with some of the more common variants. Once this contains a decent, categorized list, it can safely be posted in the article itself, as a valid contribution rather than many minor edits bordering on vandalism. Thanks. Nihiltres 18:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Looking at how long this list is getting, I think it needs some better formatting. Although I'm very busy with school and thus can't help much, the second phase of this list will be categorization. Since the goal is to sort the variants as they relate to the etymology of the word, try to make categories as such. The most obvious category visible to me right now is "animal/food-based variants" which would include noobcake and noobasaurus rex... I'm not going to start this because I'm not sure how to format it right. :P Thanks. Nihiltres 06:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

• newbie
• noob
• n00b
• nub
• moob
• nube
• Newblicon
• nooblicon
• nooblet
• noobcake
• nublet
• noobtard
• noobapotamus
• noobasaurus rex
• noobadactyl
• newbsicle
• naab
• noobo
• übern00b
• n33b
• n44b
• n00v (a variation on "n00b" meaning worse than a "n00b")
• nubcake (a bad new person, easy to dispose off)
• nublette (a variation of nubcake, except... not)
• nublette (A noob omelette)
• nubwich (A noob sandwich)
• nubsalad (A noob salad)
• nuburger (A noob hamburger)
• nuble (A noob bite-size cracker)
• choob (a higher-level noob or troll)

Regarding n00v, as the person that added the term, im sorry if it was taken as possible vandalism. (guess that makes me a wikipedia "n00v") anyway, it is a genuine term (though still not that well known).
Thats no problem, just there's no point of adding a few because they will always be reverted back. Adding them to this list, so that one day they can be added as a whole, is a better idea. You probably also don't know half of the variations mentioned above (i know about 3 :D). Slobo 16:53, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• You're right. I don't know half of them. I know the other half, and use the tamest 3 myself. Thanks for helping the cause. By the way, don't worry about the whole n00v thing; look at any Wikipedian's edits and there will be some newbie ones, myself included. ;) Nihiltres 02:21, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Confusion

Going by this article alone, I'm finding that it is redundant and often contradicts itself in several places. It ought to get a proper look-over. Xym 01:09, 8 January 2006 (UTC)