User talk:Joy

Welcome, newcomer

Hello Shallot, welcome to Wikipedia. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian. You can learn more on the how to edit page. The naming conventions and style guide pages are also useful. There is a sandbox which you can use to experiment in. If you have any questions, see the help pages or add a question to the village pump. If you ever think a page or image should be deleted, please list it at the votes for deletion page. There is also a votes for undeletion page if you want to retrieve something that you think should not have been deleted. Angela 21:24, 24 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Talk with Denny

Hi Shallot, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't change the signed comments of anyone in talk pages without clear notice, even minor changes. In my statement on the Ustasha talk page I meant the war of 1995, not the 1991-1995 war, and even if I was wrong factually, you just shouldnt change my talk, this is considered very rude, but instead point it out. I hope we will reach a great teamwork on such disputed topics and should try to calm down. After you read this note, you may delete it. --denny vrandecic 13:41, Sep 14, 2003 (UTC)

Er, okay, sorry. I thought you just omitted the starting year. It's somewhat incorrect to say war of just 1995 since not all of those people became refugees that year. (In fact it goes hand in hand with the somewhat offensive notion of a bunch of separate wars rather than one big aggression, and you didn't seem like one to be perpetuating pan-Serb myths. :) Once again I apologize, I thought it was minor enough not to be worth mentioning. --Shallot 13:49, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I meant specifically the operation Oluja, and if I remember correctly, this was a 1995 only thing. You are absolutely right that the actual war has begun earlier, but in this one case I thought Igor did especially reference Oluja, and I didn't want to include more then, thus making it even harder to talk about. I do not plan on perpetuating any myths, I just want to find out the truth - even if it is a dark truth about my own country. But I do see that here are some, who push their points very hard, without much concern to the truth. I certainly don't count you into that group. But we have to calm down, try to reach a consensu, and if this does not work, take the appropriate steps. And then it would be much nicer to be regarded as the 'good guys'. - As said, you may delete this talk after reading, or even just parts of it, not everyone needs to know my masterplan ;) Sve najbolje! --denny vrandecic 23:13, Sep 14, 2003 (UTC)

P.S.: would you please allow Igor the chance to make the changes himself I asked him to do? This would be nice. Just wait a few days or so, and if he doesn't change it, we can still do it. I just want to see, if he is willing to cooperate in any way, or if other actions are needed. Thanks. --denny vrandecic 23:18, Sep 14, 2003 (UTC)

I sincerely doubt you'd get any sort of meaningful cooperation from someone who cites srpska-mreza.com as a real resource. That stuff is really appalling.

Of course, I won't touch the page. I've mostly steered clear of that page so far, there's just too much stuff there to be able to fix in one sweep without completely rewriting it. --Shallot 23:41, 14 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Thank you! Yes, you are right, this side needs some major rework. But this will need time, and I (being the incredible optimist that I am) believe, we can reach an excellent article on this - and the article will have a very special, brilliant quality if we really can create it together with Igor, Nikola and others. I have hope... --denny vrandecic 00:12, Sep 15, 2003 (UTC)

---

Wow! Great work. Many thanks.

Now let's see, what points will be further discussed, but I like it a lot already. --denny vrandecic 22:13, Sep 17, 2003 (UTC)

I decided to try to fix a lot of it. We'll see.

P.S.: please, could you check w:hr:3. januar if it is translated properly? I rather mean the template for the date-articles than the special day, but if it is ok, I would apply this template to the other days, and it is easier to check such a template once, before applying it, than afterwards changing a 366 articles... Thanks already!

There's a few small mistakes in the language, nothing important, I guess. --Shallot 23:19, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Cyrillic

Just saw your edit on Croatian language. Could you tell me how does Croatian Glagolitic differ from other Glagolitics? Nikola 20:13, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

It is my understanding that there are several different forms of Glagolitic letters and that some of them are only found on artifacts from Croatia, like the Baška tablet. --Shallot 11:12, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Neologisms

I have noted your comments at Talk:Croat and Bosnian neologisms. Please feel free to add an Wikipedia:Accuracy dispute header if you feel it is deserved. Cheers, Cyan 02:38, 4 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Serbian nationalism

I've noticed you're edits to the ethnic cleansing page. You should carefully watch User:Igor and User:Nikola Smolenski, they seem to think that the wikipedia is a dispensary for Serbian propaganda. Take a look at some of the articles they have worked on (and which I have attempted to undo the worst of).

Kosovo War Slobodan Milosevic Prishtina

And that's only some of them. G-Man 12:08, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Indeed. I have lamented Igor's, and to an extent also Nikola's, slanted point of view on several occasions already. I only happened to notice the blunder on the ethnic cleansing page today; I would have intervened earlier had I known. It's pretty hard to battle seasoned propaganda, and in several pages I actually gave up disgusted with the amount of nonsense that would need to be fixed.

There's plenty of other examples; sadly, the better part of my contributions is about this! :( --Shallot 18:00, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

You're not the only one, I tried to persuade User:Dori an Albanian contributor to attempt to NPOV the Kosovo War article, but he gave up terrified after a few edits. I would try to do it myself, but I'me not an expert on Balkan affairs G-Man 18:21, 19 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Serbo-Croatian

Nice editing on Serbo-Croatian. Thanks. Zocky 12:50, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I saw your mass-edits and decided it was as good as time as any to structure it better, and particularlly in a less partisan manner, a work I tried to begin a few weeks ago but got sidetracked. I'm glad you liked it. --Shallot 15:04, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Czechia

I have no objection to the usage of Czechia. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Neologisms again

Responding to a flamebait article with a flamebait... sadly, I'm not surprised. It's not exactly an example of tolerance to assert that because one group of people uses some word, another group needs to use it as well

It wasn't my intention to flame. I'm arguing that a language standard serves more as a restriction on what can be used in official publication. For example, if one used a word that wasn't mentioned in an official dictionary in a book or newspaper article, it would get lectored. I believe that a dictionary should thus contain not only frequently used words, but also words used at all as long as they're not incorrect for whatever reason. I personally know Croat Muslims that use the mentioned word although they say they speak Croatian language.

Agreed, but there's a time and place for everything. If most people wouldn't understand a word, it should be replaced with a more common word among the audience -- I assure you that a whole bunch of people in Croatia wouldn't know what dajdžinica stands for, regardless of which language they speak :) That is, using different words doesn't necessarily stem from nationalist or even purist sentiment. --Shallot 15:59, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Can't we simply agree that this grossly factually incorrect and stridently biased article needs to go the way of the dodo?

I agree. We should vote it off. Can you organize a few more votes? - Vedran

I'll have to investigate how the deletion voting works, but I'm pretty sure we could find support. --Shallot 15:59, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Removed sentence from a talk page

I'm really getting sick and tired of rebuffing your preposterous pan-Serbist ideas, Igor.

You are, of course, right, but i deleted the above sentence from the talk page. No sense in getting him even more excited. If you mind, just revert. Zocky 14:59, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Well, I don't care much. I have already filed a complaint against him; I don't care if my lamentations get removed as long as something gets done about it. --Shallot 17:55, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Vedran user page

Thanks for devandalizing my user page ;) I had exams so I was unable to visit wikipedia (and probably will be for about a month). --Vedran 13:10, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I happened to notice that your username started to appear as a blue link rather than red, and fixed the obvious nonsense there. Good luck with your exams. --Shallot 17:18, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Where the word "Bojinka" comes from

The word DOES come from Serbo-Croat, but it is also an Arabic slang word. WhisperToMe 18:38, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Well, you'll have to quote me the source -- an LA Times journalist is not particularly useful. It's my mother tongue, I never heard of it and it hardly even looks like a word in this language. --Shallot 19:37, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Serbo+Croatian+Bojinka

There are about 1,320 google hits with Bojinka and Serbo Croatian in it.

I think Serbo Croatian is the entire language family, while Croatian is a member of the family.

Among the sources is this: http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/malay_terror/hambali4.html WhisperToMe 00:10, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

None of that makes me any less sure that they're wrong. Google searches are fuzzy by default. Relationship among the languages is not really the issue here, none of the members of the central-south Slavic languages include the word either, to my knowledge. Journalists usually don't hesitate to copy&paste minor details without verifying them. The Croatian/Serbo-Croatian word for "explosion" is eksplozija, BTW. --Shallot 01:43, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Presidential flag?

I have never seen one. The federal flag with the coat of arms was the presidential flag. It was square and had a border in alternating red-white-blue. Maybe the same is true for republic flags. Zocky 12:39, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

BCS grammar

I googled for "jotation" and the third link (a largish .pdf) is a real gem. A great resource for Serbo-Croatian and related pages. Zocky 05:04, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC) (BTW, I think that some of the opening material is based on our wikipedia article :)

It's a bit large and I'm on a modem connection right now; I'll check it ASAP, thanks. --Shallot 11:01, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Underscores in redirects

Hi, There is no reason to struggle with underscores in redirects: wiki creates them automatically when you move a page. Do you want to fight a robot?:-) Mikkalai 18:04, 6 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Kosovo War

Hi Shallot, thanks for your comments on my talk page on the Kosovo War article. I've posted some questions to Talk:Kosovo War about what the scope of the article should be, now that it's been written - it may be appropriate to present the political background on a separate page and confine the Kosovo War article to covering just the military conflict. I'd be grateful for your views. -- ChrisO 10:40, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Operation Storm

OK, you are right, this page is linked to List of military and non-military operations and projects the link page proves it. I'll be darned if I can find the link, but it must be there somewhere.

Care to give me a hint?

Paul, in Saudi

Use the search-in-page function of your browser :) It's under the letter O, as the original name is Oluja. I put it there because all other operations are sorted that way. --Shallot 14:01, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Zagreb county

That's interesting - that means my souce map is flat out wrong. It does show the western part, but not the southern part - Zagreb county being shown as two detatched areas. I will rectify all my maps. Morwen 13:53, Feb 7, 2004 (UTC)

I was quite pleasantly surprised that you had the maps at all -- this was a just a minor glitch for me to fix :) I believe that your map may be reflecting an outdated situation, because I seem to remember some border changes as well. I fixed the two pertinent maps myself, thanks for doing it on the others and thanks for doing that at all, it's just what the county pages needed! --Shallot 13:56, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Happy to help. My next concern is going to be patching all the other 19 maps ;) Will do this an re-upload. I'll put them all somewhere so you can upload them at your leisure for new counties articles. Morwen 14:03, Feb 7, 2004 (UTC)

Editing Croatian entries

Thanks for your nice note about my editing. I'm thrilled that they're producing so much info, while all I'm doing is editing. What's especially cool is that whoever it is is apparently going back and checking facts and finding more info, because some of the existing pages are changing and growing (even to minute details) daily. That does make it challenging to keep up with his/her not-quite-perfect English. :-) But I've edited software engineering documents that engineers are *paid* to write that are much worse than these! Maybe if we both keep trying to catch them with invites to register, they'll eventually notice the messages and follow through. Elf 16:26, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Small peoples

I see, you started a number of new pages for peoples. Please see The Red Book of the Peoples of the Russian Empire and its talk page. It seems that the whole Red Book may be put into wikipedia. Mikkalai 09:16, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Cool. I was editing Turkic people and noticed how many don't have pages (I wonder if even half of the Dagestani nations have an article), and went ahead to correlate most of them to the parts of the Russian Federation where they live in because that's at least something. --Shallot 13:54, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Separatism edit war

The point is, that some have POV mis-represented "white supremacism" as being "white separatism" when these two are really NPOV quite distinct.

So kindly explain that in the submission or on the talk page, don't litter pages with endless copy&pastes. --Shallot 17:27, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Zerjavic

I note that the article on Zerjavic is now utterly biased in favor of him. Is it still too much for you to have the bit about accusations of Holocaust denial in there? Would you like to add speculation to the article regarding Zerjavic's presumed lofty place in heaven, too? Everyking 21:46, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

(Is that supposed to be funny?) The article's msg:NPOV marker now applies more than ever. And I saw it coming a miiiiiiile away, but no, you couldn't just let me delete it, we had to have all this litany. --Shallot 22:53, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Understand something. I may have said this two dozen times, but maybe I haven't been blunt enough: I have no interest in debating the death toll at Jasenovac. I have no interest in settling political issues, either. I am interested in creating a neutral and balanced article. Even if you succeeded in persuading me that your figures were correct, it would make absolutely no difference, because my only point in being involved with the Zerjavic article is to make it sound neutral, and anti-Zerjavic feeling still has to be represented regardless of what I think. That is how Wikipedia works. Your attempts to make me out to be prejudiced and agenda-driven just because I disagree with you are pointless and pathetic. Everyking 20:13, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The problem is that the article started with an unsubstantiated opinion, and nobody provided any reasoning for it. People who insist on unsubstantiated opinions being worthy of mention as anything other than what they are (if we list them verbatim, that gives the impression that they have a meaning, whereas that's not necessarily the case and in this particular case I am led to believe that they are indeed baseless), those people I cannot see as anything other than prejudiced, and given that the original piece was written with someone who's _definitely_ agenda-driven, and that you were arguing the same point in a similar manner, the link is inevitable.

One simply cannot say that Zerjavic is lying about the death toll at Jasenovac, not back that up, and expect that all is well, nobody will mind. You don't build neutral articles based on random disparaging claims. --Shallot 21:36, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

They are worthy of mention if many people believe them. Obviously. And since the article merely states what some people think, I cannot begin to explain your problem, except to think that this is some kind of nationalistic crusade on your part. Everyking 22:05, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

But nobody has demonstrated these "many people". The two museums mentioned certainly don't seem to believe that. The latest information is that it's the editors of pavelicpapers.com, but that site looks no less biased than Zerjavic's book title. I've been asking for the replacement of gossip with actual facts ever since day one, that is the only "crusade" I'm on. --Shallot 23:37, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The CCP

You are right in that it is rubbish as it is, but I deleted the notice because I felt it was a bit unencyclopedic. You may notice I included the "this article is a stub" notice at the end, which I think is far better for the Wikipedia. I am putting the "stub" notice at the top so that people realize the article is practically uninformative. Thanks for pointing it out. Pfortuny 08:35, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Macedonian CoA

After independance in 1992 Macedonia retained the old coat of arms adopted in 1946 as the emblem of the People's Republic of Macedonia within Yugoslavia. So please don`t change it again. --User:Avala

NISU PROMENILI GRB! VEROVATNO ZELE DA ZADRZE ISTI MAKAR NA NEKO VREME DA IMAJU NEKI KONTIUITET. NJIHV NAZIV JE BJRM. ZASTO SRBI NISU PROMENILI STARI GRB? ZATO STO SE ISTORIJA NE MENJA JEDNIM POTEZOM. NPR. NA SRPSKOM GRBU PISU DVE GODINE 1804(USTANAK PROTIV TURSKE) I 1941(ZASEDANJE AVNOJA) TO SU SVE GODINE IZ SRPSKE ISTORIJE I NEMA SVRHE VRACATI GRB IZ 1800 I NEKE ILI IZMISLJATI NESTO NOVO. AKO JE PROBLEM ZVEZDA PA IMAJU JE I ITALIJANI PA STA! KOMUNIZAM IONAKO MOZDA NIJE LOSA ZAMISAO ALI KADA BI JE NEKO OSTVARIO! STA JE JOS PROBLEM? REKA ILI PLANINA ZITO NA GRBU? NE BIH REKAO.

According to the Macedonian Heraldry website, the coat of arms of Macedonia doesn't appear on the passports. A proposal by a MP to remove the red star wasn't accepted. It seems that the change of the coat of arms creates many problems. The adoption of the traditional gold lion on red shield seems not to be possible because (according to the website):

• the VMRO-DPMNE party already adopted the gold lion on red as its own emblem;
• Albanian parties are opposed to this coat of arms "blaming it for only representing the Macedonians (as people) and not others."
• Among others many say that it is a Bulgarian symbol.

ON THE OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF MACEDONIA WEBSITE YOU CAN SEE THE SAME CoA [1]

That is why we still have the old socialist type coat of arms.

New Prevlaka article

Hi Shallot, have you seen Neutral Territory of Prevlaka yet? It looks like it could do with some copyediting by someone who knows the situation there - which I don't to any great extent, unfortunately. -- ChrisO 23:14, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I think it's plain wishful thinking and definitely not for an encyclopedia, but I am not bored enough to go explaining such really obvious things... at least not yet. --Shallot 11:03, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Map

Yes. However, I am basing my maps on raster maps - that is merely a zoom of ther larger map. Morwen 21:34, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)

Historical regions of the Balkan Peninsula

Could you please have a look and tell me if it's better now? --Kpalion 22:44, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Free Software

Maybe so, but why is it wrong to bring the number of free software packages at Debian up to date?

My reason for the rest was to explain that Debian isn't only about one O/S but that the project works with other OSs too to enlarge the Free Software movement. Some people will think Debian is only about 'selling' one version of Linux, not about enlarging the whole Free Software movement. Whereas you and I know that Debian is about more than just another distro.

--Tim

DIALECT

Re: "Biased sentence:" I apologize, I truly did not realize that my sentence appeared to be biased. I was only trying to straighten out some clumsy vocabulary and grammar ("a similar amount of differences" is ungrammatical, as "amount" is supposed to be used only with uncountable nouns whereas "differences" is countable). My rewording was not intended to indicate bias, and I am sorry that it gave that impression. I realize that on sensitive topics, words sometimes have unintended connotations. I have changed the sentence again, this time to " whereas the standard languages of Serbia and Croatia, which differ from each other to a similar extent as the dialects of English, are being treated... " I hope this is both grammatical and free from perceived bias. If you are still unhappy about the wording, I am happy to discuss it further on the talk page attached to the article. Once again, I hope we can come up with something that is both grammatically correct and unambiguously neutral in meaning. Davidcannon 11:05, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thank you so much for answering me on my talk page. Thank you for your kind words. I see from your user page that you are Croatian, so I think I can now understand why you took so great an interest in the comments made about Croatian and Serbian. I'm glad that the issue has been resolved so quickly and so amicably. Davidcannon 01:57, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Re: "Italians 'disambiguation'"

Quote: "Some of those disambiguations Italians -> Italians are wrong. In many pages, the ethnic group is meant, not the immediate country of origin."

I realize this, but the page Italian that I was disambiguating does not list a page for the Italian ethnic group; it was implied that the page for the Italian ethnic group was, in fact, Italy. Note that #2 says "An Italian person" but gives no wikilink. I assumed that there wasn't one; if there was one, you'd think it'd be listed. Also, I see no link to a separate "ethnic group" page on Italy.

In other words, if you think there should be a separate page for "Italian (ethnic group)" - which there does not seem to be at present - then go for it. But my edits do not seem to have been in error. --Golbez 07:00, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You may be right, but this seems standard among many groups - there is no separate page for "Spanish ethnic group" or "French ethnic group" or "Greek ethnic group" either, that I can find. The only major one I can find in the region, based on my cursory glance, is Ethnic German, which is a stub. In other words, I was disambiguating what appears to be the proper place. If and when an "Italian ethnic group" page is created, then the links can be transferred. I will keep this in mind for the future, however. --Golbez 07:12, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Stjepan Radic

I like the quote you put in regarding "geese into the fog." Hvala lijepo. I tweaked it to include "flying" for more emphasis, but I don't know if he used it in Croatian, or simply use the form "to go". You corrected yourself in that Radic didn't (couldn't) have said this in parliament in 1918 since there wasn't one established yet. But you said in your edit comment that he made it in the narodno vijece. Does that mean "national assembly"? --User:Alcarillo 18:40, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the quote -- I incorporated it into the text and tweaked the article some more.

-- User:Alcarillo 20:10, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Penalty Area

Just for my information - do people in metric countries really refer to the "16 metre box"? Bob Palin 00:41, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Well, yeah, though I'm not sure about English per se. I inserted it there mainly to make sure we're not preferring imperial units, but I'm sure people are generally aware that it's a sixteen meter box even if they don't use a compound term. --Shallot 11:48, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Marco Polo

Compliments on your attempt to put some structure to Marco Polo. The section you rightfully improved with paragraphs was added by User:203.221.225.81, who's done something similar on Asthma. IMHO the stuff added is unreadable and would only improve after extremely heavy editing and shuffling. For the moment, I've reverted his work; if you disagree, please revert back to your last version... JFW | T@lk 13:58, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your talk page response. 203.221.225.81 has apparently done school projects on Asthma and Marco Polo and felt he/she could copy&paste his Word document straight into Wikipedia—quod non.

JFW | T@lk 16:36, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)

State leader names

That explanation of the lack of good links would make sense, yeah. I'll be checking the names to see if there is an article under a slightly modified name. Please feel free to help out if you notice any in particular that you know have articles. Thanks. -- Jonel 23:38, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)

History of Croatia

When I read through it before there seemed to be a lot of grammatical errors and unclear passages which I didn't feel comfortable editing because of my unfamiliarity with the subject matter. Passages which were written in such a way that the subject or object were unclear etc but which one couldn't fix if one wasn't certain what was actually being referred to. I've just glanced at the article again (quickly) and it seems to have improved. I'll look at it more closely when I have time but at the moment nothing stands out as ambiguous or unclear. If I find something I find difficult to understand I'll bring it to your attention. AndyL 01:08, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Yes, it seems ok now but still a bit POV in placesAndyL 17:24, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

This isn't bias but I'm unsure what this means:

The king imposed a new constitution in 1931 and held new elections for the parliament, but with a single allowed candidate list.

"Milosovic and his clique" sounds a bit pejorative. In English the word "clique" has a negative connotation so while I actually think it's a good description it shows a POV. The only other thing is it would be better to explain how memories of WWII were used rather than just say they were "manipulated". I'm sure you're right but better to explain what was done (references to war time atrocities against Serbs?) and let the reader conclude that these memories were manipulated rather than just say they were manipulated. That's a minor point though. I think that's it. Given the suject matter I'm impressed by how balanced the article is. Good job. AndyL 18:29, 1 May 2004 (UTC) Overall I think the piece is quite fair and balanced. There are a few phrases used that suggest a POV though

Talk:Europe

Please see discussion at Talk:Europe and MediaWiki talk:Europe. Thank you, Pædia | talk 17:19, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

Image:Croatia flag large.png / Wikipedia:Requested pictures

You discussed the coratian flag with User:Grendelkhan, and he placed a request on Wikipedia:Requested pictures, so I thought I let you know too: I have downloaded the coratian flag from the CIA World Factbook, and corrected the coat of arms (COA) placement and 2:1 ratio using OpenOffice.org (Draw). I assumed with the incorrect placement you meant the horizontal lines of the COA aligned with the red/white/blue borders. I also trimmed the edges a bit to get the COA centered according to the previous low res version, and the flag into a 2:1 ratio. Now the only difference is a slighly different blue color in the top left, center, and right part of the coat of arms. Not sure which version is correct or if it needs correcting. Let me know and I can GIMP it. -- Chris 73 | Talk 04:56, 14 May 2004 (UTC)

Carpathian Ruthenia

Hi, I have prepared a new article in place of the old one, which is a obvious non-sense. Please, feel free to express your opinion. Talk:Carpathian RutheniaYeti 20:58, 15 May 2004 (UTC)

Controversial message

Hi, why did you move the controversy message from the Kerry article to the talk page? The article should make the editors read the talk page before editing, when they already read talk it does not make sense to advice them to do so any longer.

Strange, but ok.

Another thing, I saw you are from Croatia. Would you be interested in a project about learning, mainly vocabulary? Please check my page and let me know. Get-back-world-respect 14:25, 16 May 2004 (UTC)

Nikola Tesla cleanup request

Hello Shallot, I noticed you deleted Nikola Tesla from Wikipedia:Cleanup, stating that you were moving the comments to the article's talk page. That was quite a few hours ago and the comments have not reappeared at Talk:Nikola Tesla, so I guess you forgot what you were doing. Also, you didn't just delete the comments, but the entire entry, which you're not supposed to do until the cleanup problems are resolved. So, I put it back. Securiger 02:18, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Ah, sorry! I somehow parsed "pages needing attention" as "the pages needing attention". My apologies. Securiger 01:47, 20 May 2004 (UTC)

liturgical language of Croatia

Hello! I thought your original text was a reference to VII. I think this entry Eparchy of Krizevci would be cleaner without reference to VII, which happened many centuries later and isn't really relevant. Can we omit that then, and just keep your extra facts about language in that area? And can you add dates? Like this:

The most salient fact, apart from that of following the Byzantine liturgical tradition, is that in the 9th Century Pope Innocent IV gave the Croatian Catholics the privilege of celebrating the Divine Liturgy in their own language, which Church scholars had helped to standardize. [2] This privilege was subsequently extended (when?) to the churches in Croatia of both the Latin Rite and the Eastern Rite (omit section re VII).

Thanks for your helpful edit! Trc | [msg] 13:14, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)