Talk:Advance-fee scam

Added some notes about how the spams are actually sent, and included a reference to the Spanish Letter scam, of which the 419 is merely a (highly visible) variant. Also moved the FTC warning from the "How The Scam Operates" section, where it really didn't fit in, to the introduction (although I dont think it really fits there either.Twisto 21:45, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Spyware" is software used to collect personal information on a victims PC - "Spamware" is software used to send unsolicited bulk email. They don't want to spy on their own machines, they want to send spam from them.Twisto 11:07, 2 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Is the bad check scam really an example of the Nigerian money transfer fraud? Populus 17:20, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I agree, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the 419 fraud cases, except perhaps that most of the scammers are living in Nigeria. But the defining characteristic of 419 scams is that the victim is asked to help smuggle money out of a country, not the fact that the perpetrator lives in Nigeria. It's not even an "advanced fee fraud", because you aren't paying any money before you (theoretically) get more money back. -- Khym Chanur 04:58, Oct 31, 2003 (UTC)

The bad check scam is definately an example of the Nigerian money transfer fraud, since it usually only works via wireing money to a country like Nigeria where the police either don't have the resources or dont care to figure out who actually recieved the money in that bank. It would be much harder to pull that type of thing here (meaning have the recieving bank being a US bank), as it would involve semi sophisticated identity theft as well.

The cheque/bankers draft scam is definitely carried out by the same groups as the 419s and lotto scams. I'll add some notes on the main MOs to the article, as this is an area I can claim some knowledge (from the investigative side, rather than the victim/perpetrator side, thankfully). I don't know whether (from a purely academic POV) the later scams belong in this article though - a pointer to a separate article might be appropriate, but as much of the content would be identical, it might be a little redundant. Twisto

A new kind of Nigerian scam

It appears that Nigerians that use a free personals site www.bookofmatches.com and a free friends site www.myspace.com have contacted me countless times wanting a relationship. They usually send me a picture of a beautiful African woman posing in a professional photo. They seem to prey on lonely men in richer parts of the world. This is a conversation that I have been having with one woman who claims to be a US citizen but is conducting "business" in Nigeria.

* Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 02:21:45 -0700 (PDT)
* From: Send an Instant Message "Carolina" <xxxxxx@yahoo.com> Add to Address BookAdd to
* Address
* Book
* Yahoo! DomainKeys has confirmed that this message was sent by yahoo.com. Learn more
* Subject: Re: HELLO MATT.
* To: "Matt" <xxxxxxxxxx>
* Thank you so much for your response and I appreciate your concern about my health, I am only
* surprised the way you took my request, I am never a scammer but a legit and truthful human, I
* didnt like the way you refered me as one of the 419, no no, it is unbecoming of you to say such a
* thing,I never thought you have too much of money or that you are a millionaire, it is different
* from that totally. My condition is tight and I gat no other means of of raising this fund,that is
* the reason why I mailed you and with the real and truthful intention of refunding you immediately
* I arrive the states or even when I get my money from the financier in the states, they have called
* 2 days ago that they would pay me in check but, I made them understand that there is no way I can
* cash it here in africa,but I think I should infrom you about this if you could help cash it but,
* it is going to * be in the mid next month before they will approve my loan anyway.
*
* I am thinking about you seriously but, here you are doubting me, I am just after my ill-health at
* the moment and later on I will see to the aspect of getting my busines firm again.
*
* I am promising you that I will refund you and can even pay more than that 500 I reuest of you, I
* gat no means of raising it at the moment but have hope of getting it later when I am strong again
* and I will refund you immediately, I can even make a written agreement of this if you are doubting
* me.
*
* I want to beg you for one thing, I dont want you to in anyway liken me to any scammer or refer me
* to the Nigeriam 419 code, I dont like it at all cos' I work so hard for everr dime I get, kindly
* bear this in mind.
*
* However, I will infrom you when the financier approve of paying me and if it would still be in
* check, then you be helping me to cash it and and may be you will even deduct your money from it if
* you are able to help me raise it.
*
*
* I want you to note that I am a God fearing human and would not do you no harm in any way.
*
* I am writing you this mail in tears cos you made me remember my lost properties and investments
* worths Millions of Naira.
*
* Anyway, let meread from you soonest.
*
*
* bye.
*
* Carro.
* ---------------------------------------------------
* Hello Carolina, how is the weather in Nigeria? I
* really hope your health gets better. I dont know why
* you are asking me for money. I will never, give
* anyone money that is in Nigeria.
*
* You should look up the Nigerian law code and look up
* code 419. ;-)
*
*
* --------------------------
* Hello Matt,
* hope all is okay by you ? how are you doing health
* wise and otherwise.
* I tried to call you but could not just get thru,i
* guess the number is somewhat incorrect so , would
* want you to give me the correct number again.
*
* I actually need you to grant me a favour which could
* be some how hard but like I told you, I am not in
* good condition of health and my friends here would
* not do much help cos I didnt help them transfer
* thier money to the states the last time when I
* talked to you about it.
*
* I will be so much appreciative if you could grant me
* the IOU of more or less than 500 till I arrive the
* states, I need to complete my treatment due to my
* sickly health and the hospital bill is yet to be
* balanced,plus I need to get my flight ticket to the
* states which costs alot here ,so I cant all alone do
* all these ,this is the more reason why I am pleading
* that you grant me this IOU and I promise to return
* it to you immediately I arrive the states.
*
* Yes, the fact could still stand out that we are yet
* to meet in person, but the picture you and your way
* of handling things convinces me that you are a good
* hun to be with and may the LORD bless you for that.
* My own picture as well I belive would have told you
* something about me but, this is yet to be revealed
* to me by you.
*
* I am counting on you for this request.
*
* Thanks and God bless.
* Roselyn loves you.
*
* __________________________________________________
* Do You Yahoo!?
* Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
* protection around
* http://mail.yahoo.com

Name change

I've modified the name of this article; "advance fee fraud" is the canonical name of this type of fraud. -- ChrisO 22:48, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Tech-savvy?

Not to be anally politically correct, but isn't this a bit of a sweeping generalisation:

"The often very professional layout of web pages and so on used in the scams suggests that they do not lack technical sophistication at least at the upper levels of the gangs. Alternatively, the gangs may hire experts from tech-savvy (i.e. non-African) parts of the world."

Some of the best technical expertise in the world can be found in South Africa, as one mere example, to say nothing of Egypt, Kenya, Nigeria itself.......It just seems a little unfair! -- TheManWithNoName 17:42, 30 Nov 2005 (GMT)

Billions?

Are there any references to back the claim that billions of dollars are made annually in such scams? Seems high to me.

email for ftc.gov

I think the email is now: spam@uce.gov (not: uce@ftc.gov)

Weird advice

What's this section for? Is it an example of a spam email, or is it true and in the article as advice? I find the first point a little hard to believe.

* It is a Federal Crime for an United States citizen to participate in an non U.S. Lottery.  
* You cannot win a Lottery that you have not entered, especially through email!
* A Legitimate Lottery would never force you to pay Advanced-Fees prior to receiving your winnings.

-- Tarquin 11:12, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Although weired, I think it is appropriate. There is other sections in this article containing advice: "It is not recommended that you attempt to get your money back" etc. This perhaps is a departure from the wikipedia:NPOV rule, but unless there is some way of providing an OBVIOUS link to an external source for authoritative advice, I think an exception should be made in this case.

Spoiler alert

While I find the "Spoiler alert" funny, I think it has no place in this article; this isn't about a movie or a book. Any objections to me removing it? -- Yoghurt 14:31, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

DEAR,WITH ALL DUE RESPECT I HEREBY QUALIFY EVERY INFORMATIONS WRITTEN HERE FOR THE REFUSE DUMPS.YOUR ADVISE TO THE WHITE MEN MIGHT BE GOOD BUT NOT THE BEST.BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT STARTED IT.THEY RAPED US WHEN WE ARE INCAPABLE BUT NOW IS A PAYBACK TIME.

INFACT TO BE PRECISE,IF OUR LORD JESUS TARRIES WE WILL RECOVER ALL OUR LOST WEALTH FROM THE WHITEMEN.PEROID:YOUR INFORMATIONS WOULDN'T STOP WHITE MEN FROM FALLING INTO OUR TRAPS BECAUSE AS LONG AS HEAVEN IS CONCERN NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD CAN DO WITHOUT NIGERIA.

NIGERIANS(NDI IGBO) ARE NOT SCAMMERS OR FRAUDSTERS,JUST CALL US THE PHAROAH THAT DOESN'T KNOW JOSEPH.419 IS NOT A CRIME,IT'S JUST A GAME MEANT FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE WISE AND CALCULATIVE.FOR INSTANCE,I JUST MADE $153,000 FROM A WHITEMAN BECAUSE HE WANTED TO DO A CONTRACT DELIVERY TO NIGERIA NATIONAL PETROLEUM COMMISSION(NNPC).

EVERYONE HAS A PAST.OUR PRESIDENT(OBASANJO0 HAS A PAST,EFCC CHAIRMAN( NUHU RIBADU) ALSO HAS A PAST.I THINK WE NEED TO START FROM THE HEAD IN CHECKMATING WHATEVER THAT IS THE WHITEMEN PROBLEMS.ALL IGBOS ARE JUSTIFIABLE AS LONG AS 419 IS CONCERN BECAUSE YOU QOUTE US.IS ALL ABOUT YOUR IMAGINATIONS AND FEAR,THANKS.

Recent merge

419 guestbook spam was recently merged with this article. Now it's under the section "419 guestbook spamming." -- Stevey7788 22:59, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

(This comment restored by me after being accidentally erased) DanielCristofani 21:16, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Humor

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Al_Bahah_Province&oldid=14579969 - these people can find you anywhere... but *shhh* like she says, keep it confidential gren 12:02, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Factual contradiction ... or inconsistency at least

From the article Advance fee fraud :

This type of scam, originally known as the "Spanish Prisoner Letter", has been carried out since at least the 16th century via ordinary postal mail.

From the article Spanish Prisoner :

The Spanish Prisoner is a confidence game dating back to at least the 17th century.

Ok so given the word "at least" the two statements are not actually contradictory. However, we may want to do a little more digging and decide which date should go in both articles.

I have posted this comment on both talk pages. Dalf | Talk 20:58, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I have added more information on the Spanish Prisoner page. This page is correct as it is 1588 i.e. 16th Century.--NHSavage 08:53, 4 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

How much has been netted by scammers?

The article needs a dollar amount reference, imho. Apparently the article ref to billions lost has been deleted, and there is no mention I can see of an amount estimate. I recall reading a year or so ago at one point the scam income was in the top 3 re Nigerian GDP income figures.

audio file

I saw a link to a guy who had read out one of these letters in a sort of shakespearean voice - it was hillarious, do you know where that might be, I have a feeling this article used to link to it... Trollderella 15:50, 24 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Translations?

I recently had some 419 scammers impersonate addresses from my company, which does non-profit work in developing countries. I found out about it when we started getting responses back to the nonexistant addresses at our domain.

I sent back quick notes to everyone that got tricked into believing the 419 emails either were or might be legit (amazing to me how many folks were looking to proceed. wonder how many did..). I referred them to the Wikipedia articles in English, French and German for background.

I found myself wishing for one in Burmese/Myanmar. There's barely a Burmese Wikipedia, so I didn't even bother trying to post a request for one there, but it got me thinking.

It seems that as Wikipedia comes online in places that are "coming online" so to speak in the more general sense, there might be opportunity for the Wikipedia community to facilitate that transition.

Somehow prioritizing translation of (and perhaps promotion somehow though that could flirt perhaps closer to social activism than might be desirable by the community depending on how done, perhaps) of articles like this 419 article might be a good thing in that direction. There might already be suggested lists of articles to prioritize at the start of a wiki, but stuff like that. Maybe be able to tap the Wikipedians pocketbooks for little projects like hiring translators to translate some things to other Wikipedias? I know translators are always looking to pick up a few freelance bucks. Wonder if there's roome to seed development in that direction somehow.

Anyhoo, just musing here a bit.

-Pfwebadmin 21:55, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Victims, not only in rich countries

Internet advance fee fraudsters don't target exclusively "investors from richer countries". Victims from not so rich countries are constantly reported and some scammers specifically target people from Latin America, India, Central and South East Asia or Middle East, where general public is less aware of their tricks. Some email spiders have features that allow harvesting email addresses linked to specific locations (e.g. from url's containing ".com.in" and so on).

--Filius Rosadis 22:34, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Needs citations and specific numbers

This article unfortunately needs to be run through the style guideline Wikipedia:Avoid weasel terms. "Some" travelers are held for ransom, "some" people meet fake government officials ... much of the supposed data on this scam needs to be verified. There's no need for us to exaggerate in order to caution the public. Tempshill 23:29, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it 419?

This page needs some sort of an explanation as to why the number 419 is used to refer to these scams. --Cyde Weys _vote^talk 17:55, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's called 419 because that is the number that is used in Nigeria's criminal code to describe this sort of crime and explains the penalty for it. The code states that they can only be charged if there is evidence against the individual, or if they're caught comitting it. In Nigeria, the penalty is 3-7 years for this sort of crime. I believe the article has a link to Nigeria's criminal code in it. PRueda29 / ^Ptalk29 / ^Pcontribs29 19:36, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added a sentence based from what you said. —Quarl ^(talk) 2006-01-16 07:37Z

Proposed split

We need to split the check fraud and lottery fraud out of this article, as they aren't relevant. Stifle 01:18, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Both of those frauds are "advance fee" fraud - you are conned into paying an "advance fee" of some sort, expecting to get goods or money in return.

82.46.76.125 11:04, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]