Talk:Euro

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Anti-euro attitude in the UK

There seems to be a very strong resistance to euroisation in the UK. Those against the euro claim the euro makes the economies using it weak. But is there another reason?

The British once ruled a vast empire and their currency, the pound, and customs were exported world-wide. The countries that make up the eurozone, especially France and Germany were British rivals for power in the past. Now the British see themselves being controlled by their former rivals and this irritates them.

The euro is a threat to the pound. The British feel the pound (and the dollar) as being threatened by the euro so they hate it and say nasty things about it and the EU. The more economies that join the euro make the dollar and pound even less significant. Since the pound is not a hegemonic currency, the British economy has to have high interest rates (4.5 % presently) compared to the EU and even the US, just to attract the same level of investment.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

Euric 2004-06-12

Euro exchange rate

I've heard credible theories that the euro/dollar fall before the introduction of the Euro coins and notes and it's rise following it was partly due to the large volume of cash stored by individuals and criminals in the Euro-zone. To avoid detection of untaxed cash income at the changeover day, such people changed their cash to dollars, and then back again to euros after the change. Anybody know more about this?

Seabhcan - 02-04-04

Someone should add more info on how this has allowed European countries/companies to become more multi-national within Europe.

Franc

I don't agree with the 'french franc' name. First of all, the 'franc' is the only currency which name has the same origin that its country. The 'franc' is (was) used in France. So it is wrong to precise 'french franc'.

Not at all. "Franc" is one old French word for "free", and the first "Franc" coins were minted when some French king was freed by the British. Of course, it probably helped that the name of the country was close to that of the currency. David.Monniaux 12:40, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Now it is true that franc is (was) used in Belgium and in Switzerland and also in Africa. In these case you have to precise 'Belgian Franc'.

Well, the same 'mistake' (in my opinion) is done in France/Economy page, but it seems meaningless: if you translate 'french franc' in french, you get 'franc francais'...

Just call it 'franc'.

"French franc" is the usual English term for the (former) French currency, so it's what we should use in the English Wikipedia. --Zundark, 2002 Jan 4

Of course. It's a retronym, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't use it. --LDC

If I well remember, the name of the "franc" (currency) should directly come from the name of the people of Francs, that initially established in Franconia (latin name in Tacitus). The territory of Francs was between current Holland (Salii Francs) and Köln (Colonia, Ripuarii Francs).

So, to be precise, it's the state of France which name has foreign origins, while the currency should be from those mentioned areas.

I seem to remember that in France the abbreviation was often FF, for "franc francais". It may be the original franc, but it needed to be specified, same way as the "US Dollar".

French people, when talking about foreign currencies, usually talk about "Francs belges" ("Belgian Francs") and "Francs français" ("French Francs"). In usual life, we obviously say "Francs". I guess the abbreviation FF has an international purpose -not to make confusion with other Franc-, so has this encyclopedia.

I converted the names of currencies to lower case. The usage may seem unusual to some, but it is the normal spelling in official documents as well as the recommended style in both the AP Styleguide [US] and the style guide of The Guardian [UK]. I left the currency names with initial capitals in the list of exchange rates; I'm not sure if nouns used in that way should be in lower case.

I removed a link to a picture of the euro symbol on an external site which was presumably being used without permission. In any case, I think it is unnecessary as we can display the € symbol OK in Wiki (though not sure this works in all browsers). Also removed the true, but rather irrelevant observation that the euro symbol looks like the logo for the computer game Quake II!

"eura" as Gaeilge (Irish language)?

I view this as pretty spurious. I've never heard of it before, always using euro as the plural in Irish. In any case, the singular form of words are used when counting in Irish, hence the reason why so many Irish used 'five pound', etc. in English. Similarly talking about five euro isn't so odd either.

Can someone explain what hat 'eura' was pulled out of! Go raibh maith agat!

I removed the rather nasty piece about European Commission having no right to dictate language etc. (yes, the Eurocrats in Brussels are out to make all our lives a misery!)

Zoney 12:32, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It's not eura; the first name proposed (by the Coiste Téarmaíochta) was a short truncation of Eoraip, namely eora. The term eoró seems to be more current among those who don't use the English term as a foreign borrowing. This isn't a trivial matter; euro in Irish has no gender and doesn't behave according to the normal grammar. Anecdotal evidence suggests that the genitive (more frequent than the nominative) is "an euro" which means that in Irish it would be a masculine noun an t-eoró, luach an eoró, na heorónna, luach na n-eorónna (and not an eoró, luach na heoró, na heorónna, luach na n-eorónna).

Note that the spelling euro isn't possible under the rules of normal Irish orthography: eu doesn't occur (compare séú 'sixth'). Indeed, though the form euro could occur in older Irish orthography, it would be spelt éaró today (compare reul > réal 'sixpence').

I see that my site has been linked at the end of this article. Thanks. At some stage soon I shall try to tackle the "pluralisation" section, which isn't really very accurate as it stands. Evertype 19:50, 2004 May 31 (UTC)

Go raibh maith agat, I wasn't aware of these issues. Unfortunately, the above useful explanation is probably to much detail to go into in the main Euro article. Perhaps a new sub-article euro and language problems can be started, as I am sure there as issues with use of terms for euro in many of the other languages (not least English of course, Euro vs. Euros). I might bite the bullet here if I've time.

B.T.W. You don't happen to know what's the government's position on Euro and Irish? (Falls off chair laughing hysterically)

An bhfuil aon rud scríofa agat sa chiclipéid Gaeilge - Vicipéid, tá cabhair á theastáil againn.

Zoney 20:32, 31 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

"euri" in italian?

...terms exists in the various languages of the member states: for example in Italian the plural is euri.

This is false, italian doesn't modify foreign words when doing plurals and other "flessions", as stated by Accademia della Crusca (people that decide what is "correct" in italian, for short). http://www.istruzione.it/euro/web_istruzione/crusca.shtml as a referecne. Notice that in 1999 the accadia talked about "euri" but official, latest, statement is "euro" with no doubt.

But euro is not a foreign word... it's the name of the Italian currency. User:Marco_Neves

I have'nt changed the Euro page myself as I would not know what other example to put there, but I hope someone does it very soon...

--Lapo

Regardless of what the Academy has to say, I am curious as to whether most Italians say degli euri or degli euro.

1 - we directly call them "dollars", it's easier and more concrete

2 - we do hope we are soon coming back home, to stay long abroad it's too expensive for us...

I added the thing on "euri" after reading about it in a British newspaper, which was reporting on the initial takeup of the Euro -- and how as well as being unifying, local colour remained nonetheless. (propaganda aimed at dragging recalcitrant Brits kicking and screaming into the 21st century... ;-) I doubt it's official, but it would be interesting to note nonetheless if it's a common usage -- Tarquin

I assume that the European Comission Translation Service must have an Italian Style Guide (though I couldn't immediately find it on their web site). Someone who reads Italian (and can find it!) might wish to see what they say about the plural of Euro. (See my comments and links below; the Translation Service mandates the English use of euros and cents despite the fact that EU regulations require an invariant plural in legislative documents.) If normal Italian usage differs from that specified for legislation, I imagine that the Style Guide might say something about it. Roybadami 01:08 Sep 15, 2002 (UTC)

The euro is divided into 100 cent

I really don't like this. We should follow the English Style Guide of the European Commission Translation Service and use cents (and similarly euros).

See A fistful of euro or a fistful of euros? and section 12.12 of the linked English Style Guide

Incidentally, see Spelling of the words “euro” and “cent” in the official Community languages - to be used when drawing up Community Legislative acts for the plurals in other languages

Roybadami 16:13 Sep 14, 2002 (UTC)

Ok, I've decided to be bold and make the change., here and in Euro coins. If your inclined to disagree, please read the above references first. Roybadami 22:57 Sep 14, 2002 (UTC)

I've also edited the para on alternative terms; it seemed a little terse after the removal of the (presumed spurious?) Italian plural. I might have been inclined to add a note on Finnish plurals (see above reference), put I haven't a clue what a singular partitive form is. In any case, I've probably made this para overlong as it is. Roybadami

As a newbie, who still finds the idea of making any edit at all to this enyclopedia somewhat scary, it's particulary disconcerting to discover that this page was officially Brilliant prose (at least before I edited it). Maybe I should remove it from the brilliant prose page now :) Roybadami

"# damn -- managed to revert a previous edit by making a subsequent edit in a stale window)" -- AFAIK, you can revert a revert. Your saving of an old version has become the next version in the list. Go one version back. As for brilliant prose and editing, don't worry too much. You'll get used to it :) -- Tarquin

Removed the following:

Some economists are concerned about the possible dangers of having a single currency managed by a variety of different governments...

This is just not accurate. The currency is not managed by a variety of different governments; rather there is a single monetary policy which is set by the ECB.

I also removed part of a sentence which claimed that the purpose of the EU is to prevent a war between France and Germany!

Nate Silva

There is a point touched on there, though; having one monetary policy for several nations, each with (at least slightly) varying fiscal spending and other policies. --Sam

Nate, the point of the EU was originally to prevent another war between France and Germany! The theory was that by uniting their major industries war would be unthinkable. Grunners 01:22, 20 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

The article currently says that the old currencies existed as "subdivisions of the euro". This seems bizarre to me -- they were simply in parallel use -- surely that's a much better term? (I might change it if no one objects, or I might just forget about this page; we'll see!) -- Sam

I believe the point being made is that the relationship of the franc to the euro, during that time, was much the same as the relationship of the centime to the franc had been.

Indeed. Once the Euro was launched in 99, the Franc, DM, etc technically ceased to exist. The franc, DM, etc coins that remained in circulation for a further 3 years were bizarre sub-multiples of the Euro until their removal in 2002. -- Tarquin 22:16 Jan 12, 2003 (UTC)

I've uploaded my economics coursework -- a report on the Euro from an British perspective. Some of it might be useful for this article. User:Sam Francis/The Euro. -- Sam 18:19 Jan 13, 2003 (UTC)

I believe the introduction rate of the euro was USD 1.16 and not USD 1.18. The latter was the peak reached right after the start before the euro started its decline.

- USD 1.1789 (= GBP 0.7111)is the earliest value in the ECB's table of past rates, dated 4 Jan 1999. The euro peaks the next day (1.1790, 0.7122) then declines. Andy G 15:36 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

On 31 December 1998 the euro rate was set at ECU 1 = USD 1.16675. Several online sources agree on this.

There should be a note on stability and budget deficit control: Appearantly the ECB and the European commission are not strong enough to enforce budget deficit control on the larger economies (e.g., France and Germany). These countries build up deficits, mostly without facing the problem of increased inflation or increased cost of financing (because most smaller countries still obey to the Euro stability agreements). This encourages politically influential countries to run deficits larger than necessary. MH 17:19, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I very much doubt the comment about the plural "euro" form being similar to the Greek word for urine. Urine in Greek is 'OU-ra', whereas Euro is 'Ev-RO' (stressed syllable in capitals). Even if it were made into a normal Greek plural 'Ev-RA' it would still sound nothing like the word for urine. Indeed, the English words 'euro' and 'urine' are more similar than their Greek counterparts. I live in Greece and I never heard anyone comment on the connection. Could this be an urban legend?

Thanks for the information. I'll remove it (it is already flagged as apocryphal, but why give a silly apocryphal explanation space at all?) But also the alternative explanation, that "each language has a different method of forming plurals. To avoid the need to settle on one, they kept it euro for plural" is non-sensical given that as stated soon after, the plurals do differ between languages so they would not need to settle on one pluralisation anyway. Best to remove this speculation and stick to the facts. While I'm at it I'll turn "Official practice" into a useful external link.

It would be a nice addition if someone were to scan (and possibly montage) the current banknotes. This is done to good effect in United States dollar. -- Finlay McWalter 12:27, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Silly me. It's already in Euro_banknotes. Duh. -- Finlay McWalter 12:29, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

The HTML entity € (&#8364) displays as the standard currency symbol in my Mozilla 1.6 browser, and not as the euro symbol (a round E with double middle bar). Is that a problem with Mozilla? AxelBoldt 00:03, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I see a rounded E with double middle bar on mozilla 1.6 on win32. Perhaps you have a character coding issue (I'm set to use "Western"). Alternatively, perhaps the default font substitution you've got substitutes the normal wikipedia font to one that lacks the euro symbol. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 01:35, 31 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Ok, so it must be a but at my end (Mozilla 1.6 on Linux). I'll investigate. AxelBoldt

Please update "twelve of the fifteen countries of the european union" with

"twelve of the twenty-five countries of the european union" on 1st May 2004

Eastern EU member states will likely join the European System of Central banks too.

TheWikipedian

Euro in former Yugoslavia and elsewhere outside the Eurozone

I'm curious that certain countries which are not even members of the EU are permitted to use this currency. Can someone please tell me how this works? Meursault2004 19:45, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

They are not permitted to do so by any treaty, but the currency is in use there. The people using the currency simply have their own caches of the currency, much like how in many tourism nations one can pay with US Dollars in the stores without having to exchange it for the local currency. — Jor (Talk) 20:07, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. Meursault2004 20:36, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

In the Turkish bath in the Sultanahmet district in Istanbul the prices are quoted in Turkish lira, Euro and USD. You see this in other touristy parts of Turkey as well. How common is it elsewhere in Europe? Would be good info. for the article. Ellsworth 21:13, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)

updated map

Minor update: coloured the eurozone maps so that it did not distinguish between old and new EU members that do not use the euro.

Changing USD to $

Recently someone did an edit, changing USD in the text to $. I feel this is both imprecise (lots of countries call their currencies "dollar" whereas there is only one USD) and a violation of NPOV (it's using the point of view of the USA, ignoring that of other countries with dollars as their currency). For this reason I suggest reverting; what do others think? -- Cabalamat 21:13, 14 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Really, I think it should be "US$", but then, I'm odd... ;-)

James F. (talk) 21:56, 14 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Not at all - I would consider US$ less ambiguous (less arrogant?), yet not as yuck as USD too. (I hate when folks have to use EUR rather than € - especially here in Ireland - hello - it's on the keyboard!) Zoney 00:18, 15 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy with "US$" instead of "USD". Regarding "EUR" v. "€", I'm happy with either.

I'm a supporter of "USD" -- no ambiguity, no arrogance, it's just one your friendly neighbourhood ISO 4217 codes. Re Cabalamat above -- you're right that lots of countries use dollars, and a fair number of others use the $ symbol to identify currencies with names other than "dollars". A vocal advocate of ISO 4217, –Hajor 00:49, 15 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Hajor, I wasn't aware that some countries use the $ symbol fro currencies other than dollars. I guess that reinforces my point -- Cabalamat 17:40, 15 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Sweden

Edited the line "unlike the UK, Denmark and Sweden, there is no "opt out" permitted." This was incorrect as Sweden does not have an opt-out, all countries joining the EU in or after 1994 cannot get opt-outs. Grunners 01:18, 20 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Hegemonic status of the dollar

I don't like this. Hegemony is not defined here, and the additions are not neutral.

It probably needs editing - but the topics are quite appropriate really - and make some fair points I have heard in various current affairs media. If it needs NPOV editing - do that! I don't quite know what language would get the points across in a more neutral fashion - besides - I mostly wholeheartly agree with that POV! :o)

Zoney 16:16, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)