Talk:2004 Canadian federal election

IMHO, everyone should go to http://www.electionprediction.org/2004_fed/index.html and submit their predictions!! Pellaken 11:39, 16 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I agree, I made a few myself, but have been more interested in what other people are saying. This site turns out to be very accurate in terms of predicting election results, usually getting 90% of ridings correct. Earl Andrew 16:08, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Who are these pundits? If we're going to include predictions about elections, they should be attributed.

More background on the current situation would also be useful, and I haven't been following Canadian news closely enough to be comfortable providing it.Vicki Rosenzweig 14:20, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Not that I mind the predictions for my folks, you understand... but these prognostications do need attribution. - Montrealais

What this article really needs is poll results, poll results, poll results! Monthly poll results for the parties since the last election (showing the sharp decline in Alliance and Bloc support and modest rise in PC and NDP numbers), and poll results showing Martin's massive popularily (i.e. many more people say they'd vote for a Martin Liberal Party and one under Chretien again).

Someone may also want to add some more analysis regarding the effect of provincial politics (e.g. Liberals in Ontario and Quebec, PC's in Newfoundland, possible Alliance-ish government in Saskatchewan, etc. Being from Ontario (where I don't think this has much effect) I can't really comment on the other provinces.

Oh yeah, a breakdown of party policies would help as well (e.g. the NDP seems to have moved even further left, the Alliance and PC's look set to meet somewhere in between the two, etc.). -- stewacide 20:41, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Table too wide

The "Results" table requires horizontal scrolling to read, something undesirable. Is there a reason for making the last column 141 percent? Is there a good reason for specifying column widths at all? Why not just let browsers use their own algorithms for determining column widths?--Indefatigable 16:06, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It fits my browser, but I am aware it doesnt fit them all, as the computer at my school has the same problem as you. Is there any way I can fix it? Also- I plan on putting another table to show the platforms of the parties. User:Earl Andrew 20:53, 8 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I thought that all it would take was removing the explicit widths, but after trying it, I found out it wasn't that simple. Then it dawned on me that the problem is some very long riding names that contain no spaces. Today's browsers aren't smart enough to break them into two lines after a hyphen or an en dash. The only solution I can see is to put a <br> in the longest ones, but that cure may be worse than the disease. I'll do some experiments.--Indefatigable 05:07, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Instead of reducing everything to a table I think it would be better just to give a summary of each party's platform (when they are released). -- stewacide 05:15, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Yes, I'll have to wait until they come out first- and we'll have to wait until the new party has a site. User:Earl Andrew 05:27, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)

would it be too much to add candidates when they are announced? for each riding? meh, I just want yet another excuse for why I should add myself to this encylopedia :p Pellaken 12:08, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Been fiddling rather excessively with the table, and I think I've got something I'm happy with for the time being. I broke up and regionalized the Ontario, Quebec and BC ridings for a couple of reasons. Firsly, simply to cut down on the visual clutter--there was an enormous number of ridings in each. Secondly, and more importantly, if one of the ultimate goals is picking out areas where party support went up or down, then splitting off some of the rural regions from the urban cores ought to allow a reader to figure things out more easily as the election develops. (For instance, we might see a Liberal surge on Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland but see the BC Interior stay solidly Conservative, or see Conservative pickups in rural Ontario but not urban, or see the Bloc trampled outside their St. Lawrence Valley heartland.... these sort of things are a lot easier to pick up with a regional breakdown then by lumping all the ridings in a province together.) Besides, each of the regions is big enough to be a province in its own right. -The Tom

Facts pending validation:

Canadian Action Party is now an historical entity, it dissolved and its leader Paul Hellyer urged its members to join the New Democratic Party a couple of years ago. The party was focused on opposing NAFTA and was largely a Hellyer vehicle.

Scott Brison has now joined the Liberal Party of Canada and may become the Liberal candidate in the next election, or not run. He may announce this after The New PM ("what part of "PM" don't you understand?") visits his riding this week.

Jim Harris is the founder of Strategic Advantage (.com) which claims "Jim Harris, internationally renowned author, speaker and management consultant Jim Harris is one of North America’s foremost authors and thinkers on leadership and change, working with Fortune 500 companies, associations and government departments. Association magazine ranked him as one of North America’s top speakers. Jim speaks internationally at over 40 conferences a year on leadership, change, CRM, eLearning, future trends, innovation, and creating learning organizations. He also works with executive teams leading strategic planning sessions.

Jim's latest book, Blindsided! was published in 80 countries worldwide in July 2002 by UK-based Capstone, an imprint of John Wiley & Sons of New York. Both of Harris' prior books are bestsellers. His second book, The Learning Paradox, was nominated for the National Business Book Award in Canada and there are now over 40,000 copies in print. Jim's first book, The 100 Best Companies to Work for in Canada sold over 50,000 copies."  He seems to have published four books in all.

The Progressive Conservative Party of Canada voted to dissolve and join a new Conservative Party of Canada with the former Canadian Alliance last week. The two parties will run only one set of candidates in the next election. The recent PC leader Joe Clark refused to join and will sit as an independent, but has retired, so will not be a factor in this next election. Clark is widely considered the best foreign affairs minister that Canada ever had (in the Mulroney cabinet), next to Lester Pearson perhaps, and is the single most trusted politician in Canada, so, this is quite serious.

http://rabble.ca and http://straightgoods.com are good sources on what the NDP thinks - in case anyone's looking for analysis.

The Canadian Action party is still registered under Elections Canada, so it should stay here. As for you Pellaken, the bigger this page, the better ;-) list the candidates if you want. Are you running in one of the PEI ridings? User: Earl Andrew 20:52 December 9, 2003 (UTC)

Regarding the table: is these some way we could show the incumbants in new/re-drawn ridings? Perhapse even including what part of their old riding is represented in the new riding? -- stewacide 22:53, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I think it's a temporary measure until we find out who exactly is running. Then, we can do a little bit of editing. Keep in mind though, there are 7 new districts. User:Earl Andrew 00:30 December 11th, 2003 (UTC)

I noticed you put the table below. If you check out the U.S. presidential election, 2004 page, they have it at the top. Plus, I have the table at the top for the 2000 Canadian election User:Earl Andrew 03:28 December 11th, 2003 (UTC)

yea, a list of cand's would be cool. I dont know if I'm running. someone (who's name is mentioned SOMEWHERE in this encylopedia, and there is a link to his name, though no article on him) wants to run in my riding, and if he does, I'll back him 130% Pellaken 08:02, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Has PEI ever elected a 'Dipper? There seems to be a big emphesis on pork-barrel politics that make the governmet a show-in. -- stewacide

The first table looks good. With the heading "Current Distribution," even I was able to comprehend it :-) Sunray 20:35, 2003 Dec 16 (UTC)

I placed a call to the cheif agent of the natural law party (the only person with contact info on www.elections.ca for the party, who confirmed that the party will NOT be running candidates in the election Pellaken 04:25, 18 Dec 2003 (UTC)

a new party, which looks like a Rhino party on a few less drugs, has been registered with Elections Canada.
Absolutely Absurd Party
http://www.absolutelyabsurdparty.ca/
Pellaken 01:46, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Why isn't Ben Serre listed as the incumbent for the new Nipissing-Timiskaming riding? I don't know much about election rules but I was surprsied to see Bob Wood's name there rather than Serre's SD6-Agent 11:41, 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Bob Wood is the incumbent in the current Nipissing riding. I suppose it could be a bit of a tossup as to whether he or Serre would be considered the "incumbent" in the expanded riding, but listing Wood as the incumbent isn't wrong as such. Bearcat 00:28, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)

I added a province by province table. I've added this identical table to the 2000, 1997, 1993, and 1921 elections. I plan to add it to ALL canadian elections from 1867 to far into the 2000's (when they happen).

but...

my "spidey sence" ... or I guess my "Pelly Sence" tells me that someone is going to want to delete the table. If so, please send me a note on my talk page, as I feel this table should be here.

Pellaken 21:55, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I wouldn't say the NDP is "negligible" in Quebec. They've been polling ~10% recently. The 'problem' is that in the past that support never materializes on election day. -- stewacide

Can something be done about the colour schme (using lighter reds, blues and greens)? It's really difficult to read at the moment. Andylehrer 15:15, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I changed the color scheme to match Canadian federal election, 2000 and List of Canadian federal elections. Parties that don't have seats should be in gray... it's too hard to invent a new color for every small party. P.T. Aufrette 19:31, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Change the colours back please (of the smaller parties) that took a lot of work, and it is fair to the smaller parties. Earl Andrew 20:06, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The old version of the table has so many different colors that it's hard to tell anything apart. A simple rule of thumb should be, parties only get a color if they have at least one seat.

If the "Absolutely Absurd Party" and others get recognized by Elections Canada, what colors will be chosen for them?

Also, I'm not sure if the colors chosen in the old table have any relation to the actual colors used by the parties (the pinkish-purple for "Canadian Action Party" doesn't appear on their website.

P.T. Aufrette 20:19, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Website colours are the best choice (lighter versions of course, so you can see) I had orignally used light blue for the CAP, but someone changed it. Earl Andrew 20:32, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Look at it this way: if the page consisted only of the first table (at 2004_Canadian_election#Current_distribution), it wouldn't need colors at all, it would just be an ordinary table.

The only reason colors are needed at all is to enhance the 2004_Canadian_election#Seat_by_seat_breakdown... but for parties that don't have seats, that's not an issue.

The old version of the table is colorful, but too many colors don't add any information content. In fact they seriously detract from readability. Only the colors for parties with seats serve an informational purpose, acting as an index or legend for the colors used in the 2004_Canadian_election#Seat_by_seat_breakdown.

P.T. Aufrette 22:16, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Apologies about the colour-shuffling... I've been going on aesthetics rather than pure-unbridled readability (c'mon, some of those paler colour were godawful), and I hope I've struck the the right balance with the current batch...

I'll agree with P.T. and say that if things get a bit more crowded in that party table I think going back to grey for the minor parties and coloured for the major ones is reasonable. For the time being, though, they seem to be working out without too much conflict.

The_Tom

Readability should be the main consideration, not aesthetics! In any case, aesthetics is debatable and mostly a matter of personal opinion.

The Conservative color in particular is much too dark, you can't read blue links properly against a dark blue backgroun. That defeats the whole purpose.

The paler colors are more readable and they're consistent with what's used in Canadian federal election, 2000 (and other years) and List of Canadian federal elections. If you have dark text against a color background, the background color has to be pale for readability, there's no way around it.

Adding colors for the minor parties adds precisely zero information content. Nothing is accomplished by coloring them, since those colors won't be needed for the 2004_Canadian_election#Seat_by_seat_breakdown section.

I strongly argue for changing it back to the old paler colors. The sole reason for having any colors at all is to enhance delivery of informational content, not any supposed aesthetic considerations (and many will consider the paler colors to be more aesthetic in any case).

Perhaps we could have a call for votes on this. --> never mind, see below, new table format

P.T. Aufrette 00:44, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Perhapse we could try something like coloured outlines around white backgrounds? (i.e. using the cell border property). That would solve any readability and asthetic issues, although the code would be getting even more complex and it kinda' goes against the keep it simple ethos around here (we're making an encyclopedia remember, not a webpage!) -- stewacide

I've de-linked the names in the colourbars to improve readability... there's still at least one link to each name in each table row, so I think we're ok. The Tom 20:28, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

New table format

Nearly every incumbent is also a candidate. So I merged the "Incumbent" and "Notes" columns and indicated the incumbent with a &dagger; †

This gives a double-wide Notes column, so notes don't have to be so cryptic. It lets you see at a glance who is the incumbent, without having to move your eyes from side to side. It avoids typing in twice the names of incumbents who are also candidates (nearly all of them). And it sidesteps the color controversy issue, since now it's not an issue to try to read incumbent's names against a too-dark background.

P.T. Aufrette 04:03, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Much as I respect your initiative (and undoubtably all the painstaking find/replace work you had to do to change the table), I disagree with this decision. The most important function of the colour-coded incumbent column was so it would be relatively easy to see at a glance the political leanings of particular regions of the country. (ie, big unbroken red stripe of the GTA or unbroken blue of the BC Interior). My plan, post-election, was to colour in the appropriate winning candidate cells as well, and so party gains/losses and the regional nature of where stuff happened would be easy to pick out.

Here's what I propose... I'll revert, and and see what other feedback appears here. If I'm clearly on my own on this particular fetish for colour bars, then I'll happily concede this one.

Sorry for being such a whiner :-)

The Tom 18:32, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Still uses up valuable space by repeating the same name twice in two separate columns, in a table that's already too wide. The unbroken stripe idea doesn't work anyway because each row is too wide already, so you only fit a small number of rows on one screenful.

I don't agree, but I'll go edit other stuff for now.

P.T. Aufrette 20:40, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)

PLEASE

can someone... PLEASE... edit the table, splitting the provinces, so we can edit things province-by-province, rather then having to edit all 308 ridings at once?? I'd do it myself, but I dont know how. Pellaken 01:26, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I guess even diving it so that you have a few basic splits. - The Atlantic & Quebec - Ontario - The West & The North -, for example, So we can click on edit (like if you click on edit beside my "please" here) and just edit those 100 ridings, rather then doing all 308. Pellaken 01:29, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Better? The Tom 05:33, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Pellaken runs over and gives The Tom a big hug, and says "Thanks man!"*

Now that we have the tables seperated, can someone please add a new party column for Quebec known as "Other" Quebec of all places should have this column, as it has very high voter rate for minor parties. Earl Andrew 16:00, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Subtle anon vandalism by 66.185.84.80

Contributions by 66.185.84.80

Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Canadian_federal_election%2C_2004&diff=2707346&oldid=2700725

From his other contributions, appears to be a vandal. He did this same sort of edit to the Clarity Act article.

Beware of internal links that have an external link color (subtly different). It breaks the "What links here" feature.

Internal link: Clarity Act
Faked link: Clarity Act

Note color difference.

I think there should be a a page exclusively listing Canada's electoral districts and another for census divisions. I haven't seen that yet. SD6-Agent 22:47, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Table?

Where'd the table go? Pellaken 21:24, 7 May 2004 (UTC)[reply]

Graphic coming

Hi folks. I just wanted you to know I'm gonna be doing a schematic graphic of the parties' results in each province. (Boxes will represent each riding.) - Montréalais 04:53, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I hope you don't mean something like what's in List of candidates in the 2004 Canadian election cause that'd just be wasted effort. But something like a diagram of the house of commons floor (from above) that's coloured in would be cool. Also, I was wondering if anyone would be able to make a map of the country divided into ridings so we could colour in the winners. Elections Canada has maps of all the ridings under copyright for non-commercial use that I think complies with the GFDL (someone want to check) but there's no map of the country as a whole. And on the topic of the riding maps, if it falls under the GFDL, wikipedia could definitely benefit from having it (I'd do as much of it as I had time for if it complied). Telso 05:44, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It doesn't look like anything on either page - it'll be newly created. The idea is essentially maps of the provinces and large cities composed of little squares, one for each riding, that can be coloured appropriately. I'll take care of it, and I hope you like it :) - Montréalais 07:31, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

However, if we had a floor plan of the commons, we'd be able to see very easily one side as a mix of red and orange and the other with at least one square of orange (election prediction says we're only 5 seats away!). However, as you (of all people) undoubtedly know, the extension of the orange has been delayed by 18 months ;) And I'm sure I'll like your graphic. Telso 08:29, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Parties not registered at dissolution

Wouldn't it make sense that the parties that didn't exist at dissolution (CHP, PCP, libert.) have a blank box instead of a 0 in the before column in the Results--National box? Telso 19:57, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Anyone know where we can get exit poll data, or data from Eastern provinces, as it happens? dave 21:45, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Yeehaw

Let the games begin as the polls start closing in Atlantic Canada! Is there a plan for when and how often this page will be updated? --Timc 23:20, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I guess it's pretty much a free-for-all. :-) --Timc 00:48, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Congrats

Just to say that this page looks really impressive. Well done to everyone! Secretlondon 02:48, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)