Talk:Hypatia
I think its important to at least mention Sagan, since his muddled view of Hypatia and the burning of the library of Alexandria has influenced a lot of people.
- I'd say not. Sagan is not relevant to a Hypatia entry - the story of how he misunderstood her story belongs on his entry. Perhaps one could justify a paragraph about misreadings of Hypatia that used Sagan as an example, but he should not occupy more space than her. For instance, the current entry leaves her as a female neo-Platonist -- that needs expanding long before misinterpretations! MichaelTinkler
- Oh - and may I ask why you think he's still influential? I'd say that approximately none of my students would recognize his name. Popular science history fame is fleeting. MichaelTinkler
- That says more about your students than about Carl Sagan. --Eloquence 21:30 Nov 9, 2002 (UTC)
http://www.thedeepdark.com/atheism/images/hypatia.jpg - an image we might want to include, but what's the primary source?
Citation for the connection between Hypatia and witchcraft?
- "And in those days there appeared in Alexandria a female philosopher, a pagan named Hypatia, and she was devoted at all times to magic, astrolabes and instruments of music, and she beguiled many people through (her) Satanic wiles. And the governor of the city honored her exceedingly; for she had beguiled him through her magic. And he ceased attending church as had been his custom."
The punishment of witchraft had been determined decades earlier by Emperor Constantius, as noted in Soldan's and Heppe's Geschichte der Hexenprozesse (p.82):
- "Things changed with Constantius, who thoroughly tried to get rid of magic and therefore of paganism. In one of the laws he passed for that reason he complains that there were many magicians who caused storms with the help of demons and who harmed others' lives. The magicians caught in Rome were supposed to be thrown to wild animals, the ones picked up in provinces were to be tortured and, if they persistently denied, the flesh should be torn off their bones with iron hooks."
With no iron hooks available, Hypatia's death seems to match the prescribed punishment for witchraft precisely. She may have been the first famous "witch". In spite of Cyril's involvement in her murder, he was later declared a saint.
Based on Dzielska, this is a gross simplification of the power stuggles that were existent in Alexandria.
- Hypatia clearly lived during a power struggle between the more pagan elements in Alexandria (who supported free inquiry), and the fundamentalist Christians, who condemned everything not supported by scripture.
Roadrunner, you clearly do not understand the subject you are writing about. Have you read Dzielska? She actually supports this claim with many details from the time. Please do not unilaterally remove large parts from the article without a good reason. I have cited Soldan, and can provide Soldan's own citation of the primary source as well -- I don't know if others have made the connection between Constantius and Hypatia's death, but that's irrelevant, because the conclusion is fairly obvious. I will revert the changes you made, but now I'll have to go to bed. Let's work on these issues on the Talk page, this makes it much easier to avoid reverting useful changes.
Here's what Deschner has to say and what will be translated and incorporated into the article:
- Nachdem der Patriarch jedoch das Volk aufgepeitscht, Hypatia in seinen Predigten als Zauberin diffamiert und erschwindelte Berichte ueber sie verbreitet hatte, wurde sie von den Moenchen des Heiligen, unter Anfuehrung des Klerikers Petrus, hinterruecks Ueberfallen, in die Kirche Kaisarion geschleppt, nackt ausgezogen, mit Glasscherben buchstaeblich zerfetzt und der zerstueckelte Leichnam oeffentlich verbrannt - «die erste Hexenverfolgung in der Geschichte» (Thiess).
That is, "the first witchhunt in history". --Eloquence
The page is a lot better. The problem I have with the original paragraph was that it implied a pagan/Christian split which was not the case.
I added the fact that Hypatia was killed at around age 60. Also I removed the term "fundamentalist" since to describe any Christian movement of the fourth century as "fundamentalist" is grossly anachronistic.
Also changed the term from "liberal" to "tolerant" since "liberal Christian theology" has a specific late 20th/early 21st century meaning that may not be applicable to the fourth century.
--Roadrunner.