Wikipedia talk:Welcoming committee/Archive 1
This talk page is intended to host discussion of how to better welcome and integrate new users into the Wikipedia community. It also, of course, serves as a talk page for discussing what should go on the Welcoming committee page it's associated with.
One thing to put there (which I'll add soon if noone else does) is some boilerplate texts for welcoming new members. I personally feel that it's nicer to customize your own, but these should give people something to start with.
Another feature I'd like to see, but which I'm pretty sure would have to be written in by a developer, would be to have an automatic listing here of all new non-anonymous accounts that have been created in the last week or so. This would be useful to anyone who feels like helping a new user enter the community. It would also be a good resource for anyone who wants to follow up on new users to edit and correct their work (which is of course the most likely to contain errors and problems of all sorts.) Isomorphic 12:50, 13 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- The list is something that a sysop can obtain using an SQL query, but I'm wary of running one at the moment while the servers are dodgy. Once things are more stable I will be happy to provide this. Angela. 15:32, Jan 4, 2004 (UTC)
We need more committees. - Hemanshu 16:20, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Personalized Welcoming
After wecloming this user, I got the idea that we might have welcoming committee members welcome users who are in either their geographic region, or age bracket. I believe this will make users feel more welcome than they do from the stock welcome notice. I would like users to sign up at Wikipedia:Welcoming Committee in two separate sections, their geographic region, and their age group. Alexandros 17:12, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- It's a nice idea but most new users don't state their age or where they're from so I don't see how that would work. By the way, Ugen's been here since August so your welcome message actually duplicated my old one! (Another problem with people blanking their talk pages). Angela 18:31, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- I agree it is a great idea. How about by interest? Too bad new users don't list themselves right away. Noldoaran
- Well, there's no harm in someone getting two welcomes - a boilerplate-type one whenever someone notices a new user, and then an interest-related specific one by someone who shares their interest. Angela
- Good idea. —Noldoaran (Talk) 03:58, Feb 14, 2004 (UTC)
With regard to personalized welcoming, I just had an idea. I'm creating a "new user log" where new users can sign in and put their interests. We'll have to see if new users actually use it, but if they do it'll be handy. That way, a veteran can look at the new user log, see what the user is interested in, and point them in the right direction (and maybe even introduce them to people working on those areas.) Isomorphic 00:47, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- I think this is a great idea. Other wikis have similar things on pages like Meatball:RecentVisitors, which seem to work, so hopefully it will here too. It might be good to add a link to this page on the boilerplate welcome message to see if that encourages people to add their name. If that doesn't work after a couple of weeks, we could try adding some false entries, but it would be nice to see if we can get some real ones first. Angela. 07:01, Feb 17, 2004 (UTC)
- I wasn't terribly serious about adding phoney entries. It's just that the page looks intimidating right now, even to me. Blank space just waiting for the first brave soul to put their name up. :-) Isomorphic 08:17, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)
How to greet new users
I'd like to join the Welcoming committee but I need a tutorial on how to welcome new users. :) Somebody please write one. Is there a standard welcome greeting? --Hemanshu 19:27, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- There isn't any FAQ or tutorial yet for greeting new users, but it's a good idea. I'll answer now and maybe we'll try to turn my answer into a good, formal tutorial later. I can't give any ancient wisdom, but I can tell you what I've been doing and show some examples...
- The welcoming committee page is just an attempt to coordinate and improve what people had already doing for a long time. There aren't any formal guidelines but there are some standard messages available here. You can also see what I'm personally using here. If you look at the user pages of the other welcoming committee members, a lot of them have their standard greeting posted.
- If you haven't seen it, there's a page at Wikipedia:New user log where new users can introduce themselves. If I'm greeting them before they've signed in, I use a pretty standard greeting and include a request to add themselves to the new user log. Sometimes I'll look at their user contributions, see what they've been working on so far, and customize a little bit based on that. Something like "Thanks for your good work at ____ " if they've significantly improved an article.
- If they write a note to the new user log before anyone has greeted them, then I use a message customized to what they've said in their introduction. I might suggest an appropriate WikiProject to look at, or an article to edit. For an example, see what I did today at User talk:Skylark of Space after reading his entry at the Wikipedia:New user log. He said he was interested in (among other things) space and hats, so I pointed him to Wikipedia:WikiProject Space and (I never would've believed this, but...) Wikipedia:WikiProject Hats and Headgear. Similarly, I suggested to Parelle that Diplomatic history could use work, after she mentioned on the new user log that that was her major.
- I hope that helps. Go ahead and add yourself to the Committee page; it's not like we're an exclusive club, and it doesn't require you to do anything - it just tells people that you're interested in this area.
- Thanks for your interest, Isomorphic 20:22, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- For another example, see what Sennheiser and UtherSRG did at User talk:Yak. A compliment on Yak's work at Cassia (which Yak started and mostly wrote by himself) to start off, then a bunch of useful links from Sennheiser, then some suggestions and a minor correction (phrased very politely) from UtherSRG. This is a great example of how this should be done. Isomorphic 20:33, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for the complement, Iso. I took a look at some of the greeting you've done and like what I see, too. I'm going to incorporate some of your technique into my standard greeting (including a suggestion to sign the Wikipedia:New user log). Since I tend to find new users by trolling RC, it's easier for me to use a more standard greeting routine than you would need trolling the Wikipedia:New user log. I will likely incorporate my greeting into {{subst:greeting}}. Probably the wrong place to ask, but can you embed a msg into a subst (or vice versa, etc.)? - UtherSRG 20:49, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- Sorry, don't know anything about using {{subst:}}. My own greeting technique is a decidedly low-tech copy-and-paste job from my user page. That works better for me anyway since I usually modify the greeting a bit for each individual use. Isomorphic 21:08, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I've just created Wikipedia:Show preview, which I think would be a good idea for everyone to add to their welcome messages, as one of the frequent complaints about newbies is that they neglect to use Show preview and make too many saves. Angela. 04:07, Feb 27, 2004 (UTC)
- Thanks, that's a great idea. Now added to my greeting. Isomorphic 22:56, 27 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I had an idea last night. Right now, we have an absolutely huge collection of how-tos, policies, FAQs, and such. It's daunting - no new user is going to RTFM through all that, because there's too much and not much clue where to start or what's important. I haven't read even most of it. It's like a computer's user manual - most people won't read it until they hit a problem, and not always then.
On the other hand, people do need information to get started. I've noticed that greeting messages (including mine) have gotten increasingly long as we try to fit in all the most important tips. Those should be welcome messages. By making giant welcome messages, we're implicitly admitting that there's something missing from Wikipedia.
We should create a Wikipedia:Tutorial - a series of pages to walk you through all the basics. This way, we can develop a standard canon of stuff that people should know before they do a lot of editing. I'm thinking things like what a talk page is and how/why to use it, how and when to create wikilinks and external links, how and when to bold and italicize, and some other basic help on formatting and style. We could even walk people through creating their user page, if they haven't already.
We can also include brief explanations of our policies, with some examples. Then, we put an area at the bottoms of the pages for people to practice. These pages won't (in general) replace the pages we've got now - what I want to do is create a distinction between a tutorial and a user manual. The idea is to keep the tutorial short and include only what's crucial, so that people will actually go through the whole thing.
Once it's built, we can start using shorter, chattier welcome messages with only a few links, as long as one of them is to the tutorial start page.
I'll start on this project in the next few days, but I'll be busy in real life, so if anyone else wants to pitch in, I'd appreciate it. Comments anyone? Isomorphic 15:20, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- Update: screw real life, project started. I'd still appreciate help, though. My formatting is uninspired, and I'm sure to leave some things out. Isomorphic 22:29, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
What about Wikipedia:Help#How do I do that?? --Hemanshu 22:34, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- It's a good source for material, but it doesn't fill the function I had in mind. I want to cover only the most basic stuff, so that people will actually read through the tutorial in one sitting. For example, a new user doesn't need interlanguage links and doesn't probably need to know much about deletion, so those subjects (which are in help) won't be in the tutorial. Similarly, while Wikipedia:Talk page has lots of good info, the bare amount needed to get started is much smaller, so the tutorial lesson will be shorter. Isomorphic 23:12, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I like this idea. Is there a reason it doesn't have many links? I was thinking of adding some so people know where to go for further information but I wanted to check whether they had been excluded on purpose. Angela. 11:55, Mar 4, 2004 (UTC)
- The current state reflects some indecision on my part. At first I felt that links were a distraction - these are new users who generally won't know the system well, and the idea is to go through the tutorial, not to wander off to some other part of Wikipedia. So at first I wasn't putting in any links at all. Then later I changed my mind and added in some, thinking that they're omnipresent on Wikipedia so they should be here, too. I'm still not sure, and I'd appreciate comments from anyone who's interested. Isomorphic 13:46, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I think more links would be useful. If people want to go through the tutorial in the order they are meant to, they can open the other links in a separate window or tab. I'd prefer to give them that option rather than not have the links. Angela. 03:30, Mar 5, 2004 (UTC)
- That's what I was starting to lean toward. If you agree, then it shall be so. Isomorphic 03:33, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Help Wanted
I'm trying to create the perfect Wikipedia:Welcome boilerplate--will you help? jengod 00:06, Mar 6, 2004 (UTC)
From #Wikipedia:
[02:45] <TimStarling> can people stop putting the changing attribution page in their newbie greeting messages?
Angela. 02:50, Mar 14, 2004 (UTC)
- OK. It's now removed from mine. I'll take it off the boilerplates if it's not been done already. Isomorphic 02:55, 14 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Minor Edits?
My apologies if I missed this elsewhere, but would we prefer to welcome people and mark the welcome message on their talk page as Minor edits? Or should we just go ahead and always make it a regular edit? My only thought is that I've welcomed a few dozen people today, and those are all showing up on the Recent Changes page. --Wolf530 06:34, Mar 30, 2004 (UTC)
- I don't know of any policy on this kind of thing. Personally I lean toward making them regular edits, since I prefer to reserve "minor edit" for truly minor edits like copyediting and wikifying, and never for adding any kind of substantial materlal, including messages. There are plenty of people who feel differently, and I've noticed one or two who mark all their edits to talk pages as minor. Isomorphic 07:21, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I always used to mark these minor as I thought there was no need for them to appear on recent changes, but it seems most people don't hide minor edits from recent changes anyway. I now always mark them as major edits as creating a new page is not something minor, and like Isomorphic I try to use 'minor' only for edits that don't change the content itself. Angela. 23:12, Apr 1, 2004 (UTC)
Newbie helpdesk
There has been a lot of discussion at the village pump talk page about whether anons should be allowed post questions on the Wikipedia:Village pump. User:MyRedDice suggested that there should be a sort of "Village pump for newcomers" set up. I think this is a good idea. Are any other WWC members interested in helping? The page, if set up would needed to be linked from ALL the newbie help pages. LUDRAMAN | T 17:27, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I'd be willing to lend a hand. --Wolf530 17:47, Mar 30, 2004 (UTC)
- I've created the page at Wikipedia:Newcomers' village pump. It needs to be linked from other pages though. I also posted a question or two as an anon IP, so users wont be frightened at being the first to ask a question, and so they get the idea. LUDRAMAN | T 18:09, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I've thought about something like this on and off for a while, but hadn't gotten around to doing anything about it. I'll watchlist it and help maintain it. In addition to linking it from our various pages, we should also put the link into greeting messages. Isomorphic 04:57, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I think I like the name "Newcomers' Help Desk" better than "Newcomers' Village Pump" though. It's more accurate, and additionally it doesn't imply that newcomers can't post to places like the Village Pump, just that this is the place for newcomers to get help. Isomorphic 05:03, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I'd be willing to help. Also, this points out another need, for a standardized user greeting; I'm thinking something like {{msg:welcome}}. That way everybody wouldn't have to continually copy-paste. Meelar 05:04, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- It might seem useful but I have a strong reservation. This would reduce the ability to add any personal touch to a greeting. One of the reasons I've been happy to stick with copy/paste is that I often insert user-specific comments at various points in my message, and I don't always say the same things. For example, my message will be different depending on whether someone has signed the new user log. Sometimes I'll thank a user for some notable contribution, and sometimes I'll leave out tips or links that they obviously don't need.
- If I use a MediaWiki message, I greatly reduce my ability to tailor the greeting to the user I'm talking to. Not only that, but MediaWiki messages reduce the personal touch at the other end, since the sender's personality isn't showing at all. I'm worried that having the message available will discourage anyone from taking extra effort, and we'll end up with a situation where we might as well have a bot do our welcoming for us. Isomorphic 05:56, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I agree with Isomorphic. Not only would a == Welcome! ==
Hi Welcoming committee! I noticed your contributions and wanted to welcome you to the Wikipedia community. I hope you like it here and decide to stay.
As you get started, you may find this short tutorial helpful:
Alternatively, the contributing to Wikipedia page covers the same topics.
If you have any questions, we have a friendly space where experienced editors can help you here:
If you are not sure where to help out, you can find a task here:
Happy editing! take away personalization, but once a newbie responds to the message s/he will see that the message wasn't written out, but only a stanard greeting. It gives a nice touch of personalization to have actual text written on the page. Also, while I'm busy griping about user welcomes, please check out my complaint at Wikipedia talk:Standard user greeting - no one seems to have noticed it. And yes, I'd love very much to help out at the Newbie Village Pump. Excellent idea! --Alex S 17:02, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Tutorial
The Wikipedia:Tutorial looks like it's about ready to go live. I'll post an announcement on the Village Pump tomorrow if no one objects. Isomorphic 06:35, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Signing articles
I've joined the committee and created my standard welcome text (to be personalised as and when necessary), based on what UtherSRG greeted me with a couple of months back. Following some discussion on the village pump, I've amended the section on how to use signatures, to make it clear that main articles shouldn't be signed. It might be useful for anyone else who mentions signatures to have a look at whether it's clear in what they've said.--ALargeElk 15:48, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
- Oh, and as I'm new to the committee, if anyone wants to suggest changes to my welcome text, feel free. --ALargeElk 15:57, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
Welsoming all users! ........ or not?
I was never really welcomed. First thing I got in my talk was about copyright. Nobody ever asked me do I know anything about internet copyright. I could say that I am from ex-communist country(not communist since 2000) and that somebody could explain me something about it.
I am here since March of 2004.
Avala 20:54, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)