Talk:Igbo people

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who wrote this article? it does not describe igbo culture, or the igbo nation, it does not even mention the correct geographical location of the igbo people. it is imprecise, very negative-sounding and a stub.

please write IGBO as from now on, instead of IBO. IBO is something else, it is actually the humorous abbreviation of i-before-others, and not the name of a tribe and nation in the biafran region of west-africa. (Anonymous contribution from a passer-by, User:217.231.52.19)

The standard in English is "Ibo." The standard English for Français is "French." Sensible Wikipedians won't be misled into trendy and fatuous novelties to mollify culturally immature bullying. --Wetman 19:24, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I believe the standard is now "Igbo". It's certainly what I see in books and magazines today. Also, I just finished Karl Maier's "This House Has Fallen", and in it, an Ibo chief claims that there are two separate groups--Ibo is much smaller, and Igbo the dominant one. He claimed the languages were not mutually intelligible. Alexisr 18:45, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Then, as regards this article, "right heading, wrong text" is it? --Wetman 19:12, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

IBO is also an abbreviation to refer to the International Baccalaureate Organisation. --Zippanova 06:32, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Even if "Igbo" is now standard in English, the article should certainly mention "Ibo" as well. Anyone reading a contemporary account of the Biafra war is going to encounter "Ibo", and they should know that it is the same people. I am going to edit accordingly. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:43, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

Igbo...ibo...who cares..I m Igbo and I dont even know the difference....its just a matter of pronounciation if you ask me......problem here is that there is soo much more to igbo culture that is not mentioned and I would edit if I didnt have an exam tmr. a plus...k'odi mgbe ozo

===>My two cents I've spoken with several Nigerians, and I always ask if they are Igbo. When responding, they all (four or five) pronounced it "Ibo". They also all wished that Biafra was independent. Justin (koavf) 06:13, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

Lost Tribes of Israel?

Cut from article: "It has been suggested that the Igbo the decendents of one of the Lost Tribes of Israel." Sometimes I get the feeling that has been suggested that everyone is descended from the Lost Tribes of Israel. However, this theory only belongs in the article if someone can cite evidence of it being upheld by someone with some credibility. E.g.: can someone provide a citation that the Igbo believe this about themselves, or that some prominent anthropologist believes this, etc. Even the Lost Ten Tribes article, which mentions a lot of putative descendants, does not mention the Igbo. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:39, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Similarly, cut again (not by me) this longer version of same, as a section under the title "Jewish Element of Igbo Ethnic Group":

There exists within Nigerian lore legends that state that a component, if not all of the Igbo ethnic group has either Jewish ancestry or came under Jewish influence about 1500 years ago. Currently, there is a growing segment Igbos who have either been practicing Judaism in part, or are returning to Judaism in whole. The Igbo (Ibo) Jews of Nigeria, sometimes addressed as “Yehudim Maghrebim” (West African Jews) are the Jewish component of the Igbo (Ibo) ethnic group whom are said to be descended from the southern and westward migrations of both ancient Semitic and later Jewish peoples from the Middle East into West Africa. There are currently 26 Synagogues in Nigeria 3 of which are also attended by Israelis either working or traveling in Nigeria. Two of the most well known Synagogues are the Gihon Hebrew Research Institute and the Beith Kenesseth Siyahh Yisrael in Abuja, Nigeria.

Similar material was also placed at African Jew. -- Jmabel | Talk July 1, 2005 06:32 (UTC)

can someone provide a citation that the Igbo believe this about themselves

This is one of the fact that establish the Igbo clan and their neigbours not as lost 10 tribes but as the Lost people described as Israel in the bible.

Isaiah 59:4 None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

Isaiah 42:22 But this is a people robbed and plundered; All of them are snared in holes, And they are hidden in prison houses; They are for prey, and no one delivers; For plunder, and no one says, “Restore!”

David said: When The Lord will return the captive of zion, we were like those who dream. This is a prophecy about future Israel. Its a surprise package to them. The people described as Israel in the bible are not suppose to know their identity till end of days. That was the plan. They were made IGNORAMUS.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 2:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Has it ever occur to anybody that biblical Israel is not where it is currently located? The land described in my own version of bible(I dont know yours) confirms that Israel is located on a land flowing with milk and honey. This is definetely a Tropical rain forest not some desert where the land is barren and infertile.

Precisely, Igbos and their Niger-Delta neigbours are Reubenites, Gadites and Half of Manaseh.

The present Israel nation are Japhites not Shemites! They are the impostor Israelites. The bible clearly stated that Israel will be trodden down till the end time. Trodden means not in existence. Can the world read the line from the war in Middle East? Why do you think The Almighty has folded HIS hand towards HIS people since 58 years HE has reformed them? In Isaiah 42, it says they will come against king like mortas. Israel, palestine are the same fighting for name that is not theirs. In Isaiah it says "Woe to land beyond the rivers of Ehtiopia(Red Sea), that send ambassadors to a land destroy by waters". This is the prophecy about innvasion of the Arab, Jews on the original Israel. The land that was destroyed by flood later by gentiles is part of Africa. When will the world realise this?

Ethiopians can never be related to Israel. Ethiopians were/are sons of Ham. Israelites were sons of Shem. Though, Shemites -Israel was in the land of Ham for sometime but all of them moved out. I dont know if few stayed.

First, the original name can not be Israel according to bible and wikipedia. We have all been fooled!.

Jacob and Gideon were prominent Israelites that was renamed. Jacob = The one who contend/wrestle God. Gideon = The one who contend/wrestle with Ba. not ba-al::The ba.

Isra means Night journey in mediterranean not contend.

el ah isra :: The one who night journey with God.

According to Judge 6:26 or so, Yeru = contend. The name should be el -ah -Yeru::el = Article The, AH=God, Yeru=contend From left to right will be Yeruahel or The Yeruahs Gideon is el -ba -Yeru From left to right will be Yerubahel or The Yerubas.

Reading right to left is common in bible as in el ah Gabri::Gabriahel el -ah -Raph::Raphahel etc.

There is no way in all ramifications that anyone can proof to me that the present location of Israel is the one in the bible.

Now we know that Goshen is located somewhere in sudan, for goodness sake, what were they doing there? why would they passed the tip of the red sea and not the middle? If you say they passed through the middle of the sea, that is not possible because its about 300km wide which will take about 7 days for over 600 thousands people compare with 10hours journey in bible.

There has been established fact that there are Africans who are related to bible Israel. For long they denied. Can someone tell me how we have 2 blood in Israel whereas, bible Israel were forbidden to mix with other race?

Another thing, bible Jordan was before the main land of Israelites and is small compare to what we now have on the whitewashed map. According to Joshua 1, it was given to just 2.5 tribes:Reubenites, Gadites and half of Manaseh. The present Jordan is bigger than the whole Israel.

Jordan was also like Garden of The Lord. It was the best part of Israel land and even on earth (Ezekiel 20:6) Eden is not in existence biblically again. But now, our pervasive historians says, Eden is in Iraq.

Is anyone out there reading the bible again or just listen to pastors?

Israel should be one of the best of all lands on earth not one of the poorest in a desert. Not a land that does not look fertile, not a land that was artificially enhanced.

The bible says "A land flowing with milk and honey" a metaphor for a fertile land just by look".

Entrance into Eden Gen 2:8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Exit from Eden Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Lost Forever Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Recreated:Future Reformation Prophecy of The Yerubas. Isaiah 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

IT IS HIGH TIME WE BEGIN TO WAKE UP FROM OUR DREAM WORLD IN THE REALITY WORLD OF TRUTH. ELSE YOU WILL HERE:

"I KNOW YOU NOT, DEPART FROM ME"

If you believe in the bible because you pray and you get answer, if that is the reason why you call yourself christian or a muslim then you are in a deep shit of problem. If you are christian because you think my father was a christian and believe as i do as well as my great grand father as well as Benny Hin, Billy Graham, Keneth Copeland, just because you see them laying hands on people and they get heal and you see demon -stration. You aint serious! You are a kid.

Rememeber the words of the savior. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' Mat 7:23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.'

—This unsigned comment was added by 196.1.178.84 (talk • contribs) 27 March 2006.

Philip Emeagwali

Considering the Wiki article on Philip Emeagwali, I am not sure he should be listed as an important I(g)bo... (user:ErichMaraite 15 July 2005)

Still a problematic article

• The claim of 38% of the population in the lead paragraph does not jibe at all with the claim of 35 million in a population of 150 million, below.
• There is still no citation on the restored claim about possibly being Jews.
• And I wonder if that uncited claim about Igbos being Jews goes hand in hand with the uncited claims about them being "known to control African commerce… live all over the world and are among the world's leading intellectuals." Is this cited from somewhere plausible, or do we just have an African variant of a claim of the Great International Jewish Conspiracy? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:06, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

• In this situation I am not sure who added the additional material. The best bet may be to strike that statement "known to control African commerce… live all over the world and are among the world's leading intellectuals."
  It does have the ring of an agenda to. There are Igbos who are a part of commerce, just like anyone else, but controlling it.....no way. I don't know of any Igbos who make such a claim in such a broad way. Igbos are a part of the world wide picture, and it is as simple as that. Without any citations it may be better to just cut down the size of the article to the information that is verifiable.--EhavEliyahu 19:57, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

• Percentage of the population: I have changed the article to reflect the 15% cited in Demographics of Nigeria, if we're going to be wrong, let's be consistently wrong, I figure.  :-p
  Allegations about Igbo controlling African commerce, etc. has been removed, not just because it's unsourced, but because it's demonstrably untrue.
  99.99% of the population of ... I have changed this unsourced text to something a bit less ridiculous.
  Claims of being Jews is something I'll let Ehav Eliyahu defend, as I'd end up having to cite him as a source anyways were I to try to defend it myself... Tomer ^TALK 00:14, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

• In terms of the Jewish mention, it may be better to re-word it to something a segment of the Igbo population are believed to be Jews, and then just have a link to the African Jews article. That way it is not overkill since the article seems more on the social/political element of the Igbo ethnic group, which has a different group of concerns attached to it. Just my two cents. --EhavEliyahu 13:15, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Please feel free. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:00, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

35 million Igbo??

The 35 million number is incredibly suspicious. I've always heard of the Igbo as the third largest Nigerian ethnic group, behind both the Hausa and the Yoruba. This is backed up by the CIA World Fact Book, which gives us 29% Hausa/Fulani, 21% Yoruba, and 18% Igbo. Ethnologue gives 18.5 million Hausa, 18 million Igbo, and 19 million Yoruba. Columbia Encyclopedia numbers them at 15 million. Britannica about 20 million. I'm going to remove all the material about numbers, and change the Igbo language article back to saying 18 million Igbo, which seems close enough to the others that give actual numbers. john k 07:40, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the 35 Million number comes from Igbos who are counting Igbos outside of Nigeria, and possibly even African Americans and Haitians. I do know of a number of Africans from the East Coast who descend from areas where it was known that Igbos were brought during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, and there are some Haitians who have also expressed an Igbo descent. More than likely these are the reasons you hear these high numbers in terms of Igbo populations. --EhavEliyahu 22:02, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Somebody also changed the numbers on Igbo language to 35 million - there are certainly nowhere near 35 million speakers of the Igbo language. Beyond this, it seems absurd to count people in the African Diaspora in the new world as members of any specific African ethnicity. I don't know what the rationale for that change was, but it was clearly made by someone who is engaging in Igbo nationalist apologetics, and it doesn't belong in the article. john k 00:55, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree that it doesn't make sense to inflate the number to 35 million. Just a little insight into what I have found in Igbo culture. The reason why those in the diaspora are counted is because there are some known areas on the East Coast where Igbos who were taken into bondage during the Atlantic slave trade were taken. I think they are called Geeches and Gullahs. In Haiti there is at least one ethnic group, which traces itself back to Igbos in Nigeria. So most Igbos have a strong sense of connectedness to other Igbos, the Diaspora is counted in their society, even if there is exact proof for it.--EhavEliyahu 22:14, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes. Well. The article now says "c. 45 million", so you've been outbid. Can someone please find something citable? - Jmabel | Talk 05:43, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Igbo vs. Ibo, redux

The lead now says "erroneously referred to as Ibo". I believe this is wrong. The spelling Ibo is not "erroneous", it's merely falling out of favor. At the time of the Biafra war, it would have been considered the correct spelling in English, without a doubt. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:22, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I've changed it. The "erroneously" bit is too prescriptive rather than descriptive. Until the articles on Haman, Hitler, and Stalin characterize those men as wicked, evil, and accursèd, "erroneously" is unacceptable in this article. TShilo12 07:17, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

An overview

Just found this at the disambig page--no references, so far as I can see, so somebody should check it before it's merged.

--Dvyost 04:27, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Igbos "An Overview"

Igbo or Ibo, major ethnic group living mainly in south-east Nigeria. The word is pronounced “eebo”, with a bilabial consonant not used in English that has a “g” and a “b” sound in it in place of the “b” sound. Ibo is an older spelling. No one knows for certain how many Igbo—or Nigerians—there are. They are certainly one of Nigeria’s largest ethno-linguistic groups (along with the Yoruba and the Hausa people).

Igbo, a Niger-Congo language with around 35 million speakers, has many dialects, some of which are barely mutually intelligible. However, Igbo speakers from different areas can usually communicate with each other, tending to adapt their speech to one of several central forms. Igbo is a tonal language like Chinese, which means that the meaning of certain homographs (words that are spelt alike) is distinguished by pitch.

Igbo is distantly related to the languages of neighbouring peoples; this indicates that the Igbo have been in much their present home in south-eastern Nigeria for a very long period. Evidence of ancient settlements, stone tools, and pottery dates from several thousand years ago. Most Igbo lived between the lower Niger River and the Cross River though a substantial minority lived west of the Niger. Many now live in other parts of Nigeria or abroad, in Britain, North America, or other African countries, especially South Africa. This is sometimes called the Igbo diaspora and began in the era of the slave trade.

In modern times, Igbos have emigrated in search of educational and work opportunities. Traditionally, the Igbos lived in small villages. Not all were equal however; slaves had no civil rights and women had less power than men. Men of roughly the same age formed an age grade, to which they belonged through life, unless demoted—a great disgrace. Older men controlled the affairs of the community, and decisions were taken by consensus, after long debates. There was a system of titles, which were not inherited, but achieved by an individual’s own efforts.

The western Igbo lived in towns, but the majority, east of the Niger, lived in village groups—settlements that were geographically dispersed but united by a tradition of a single founding ancestor. There were hundreds of these village groups. In their turn, village groups were part of a larger unit, sometimes called a clan. What linked the members of a clan, village group, or village, was a tradition of descent from the same ancestor. For example, the members of the Umueri (Children of Eri) clan believe they are descended from an ancestor called Eri. One of his sons was Nri, the founder of the Umunri village group. Other sons founded different groups.

Another way in which communities were linked was through a network of regional oracles. The best known was Chukwu Obasi (means “god the creator”). The Igbo people were long-distance traders; during their travels they would come across cases of disputes or accusations and would bring clients back to the oracle. The reputation of these oracles depended on the justice of their judgements.

The Igbo have a long history of cultural achievement. Traditionally, the Igbo have excelled at metalwork, weaving, and woodcarving. Excavations at the village of Igbo Ukwu have unearthed sophisticated cast bronze artifacts and textiles dating from the 9th century. Since ancient times the Igbo have traded craft goods and agricultural products. Traditional Igbo religion varied regionally, but generally included a belief in an afterlife and reincarnation, sacrifice, and spirit and ancestor worship. The Igbo performed elaborate ceremonies marking funerals and other life passages. Yam was the most important crop and staple food for the Igbo and they still hold an annual yam festival to celebrate the harvest and the beginning of the new farming year.

In the late 19th century the British gradually extended their rule over what became Nigeria. It was a British colony until 1960. Nigeria became independent with a federal constitution, with three (later four) regions, each dominated by a large ethnic group (the Igbo were a majority in the Eastern Region). The secession of the Eastern Region from the Federal Republic of Nigeria led to the Nigerian civil war (see Biafran War) of 1967-1970. While ethnic tensions remain, the Igbo are again integrated into Nigerian society. Several of Nigeria’s leading writers are Igbo, including Chinua Achebe, Cyprian Ekwensi, and Nkem Nwankwo. Nigeria’s first president, Nnamdi Azikiwe, was Igbo.

--Engr. Ezurukam Emmanuel 20:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Igbo origins

Please stop reverting the Igbo people article. The view that the Igbo are descended from the ancient Hebrews has been sourced, and your edits are removing that source. Unless you can provide proof of more historians who support Nat Okafor-Ogbaji's theory, it needs to be made clear that his is a minority viewpoint. — BrianSmithson 12:02, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

As you have asked me to stop reverting the Igbo people page, I will ask you the same. Please stop reverting the page. How can my edits be removing the source, when I was the one who sourced the edit?

While I am fully aware and fully accept that Nat Okafor-Ogbaji's viewpoint, at present, is in the minority in terms of mainstream thought, this does not make him a "controversial" historian. You may be partial and in doubt towards said historians theory, however, this is not evidence enough to qualify Okafor-Ogbaji as "controversial". The whole point of my source, is that viewers can use the link, read the text in its entirety and decide for themselves whether he is credibe/"controversial".

Also, whether the fact that the Igbos are descendants of the ancient Hebrews is true or indeed a fallacy, this does not change the fact that Eri, Arodi, and Areli ARE the sons of Gad. So while I accept that it would be slightly biased or partial to refer to them as "great explorers", they are brothers and sons of Gad never the less. This is not just the case, "according to Nat Okafor-Ogbaji", one only needs to open up a King James version Bible to verify this empirical fact (Gen 46:16).

Ike.Q 13:15, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

(Moving discussion back here so it is not fragmented.) I apologize for the second half of my edit (the part about Eri, Arodi, and Areli). You are correct that this should not need a qualifier. However, I must continue to insist that the views of Mr. Okafor-Ogbaji be qualified as being in the minority or as controversial. Even the link you provided to source the edits says that they are controversial; "Why did you embark on this controversial research?" is the very first question they ask him. The second link you have provided as more evidence does not work. Overall, my problem is that you are providing Mr. Okafor-Ogbaji's opinion as if it were the truth. But it is simply his opinion, and one that sounds very suspicious to me. — BrianSmithson 15:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)