Jump to content

Talk:The Beach Boys

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 81.245.74.101 (talk) at 22:03, 26 May 2006 (→‎Additional information). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

RE: age jokes: I and thousands of others heard Mike Love make many age jokes last night in Westport, CT

Hi there.

I've done a bit of work on editing The Beach Boys' albums, and I've Wikified all of the album titles.

I know one of the guidelines is that you should only include the word "album" in the Wiki quicklink if it is necessary. My personal discretion has told me that because some of the albums which are included in the discography (inclusive of Surfin' Safari, Surfin' USA, Little Deuce Coupe.. etc) are also song titles by the same band, I have included the word Album within the Wiki quicklink.

I hope this is helpful. I will do some Album write-ups as soon as I have fully studied the "How to".

hello

Totally cool

I see this has been dealt with. Super. Thankyou TUF-KAT for your efforts in this area! Much appreciated, especially given my reappearance on the Wiki shores! Bobo192 20:02, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)i am a farter

Organization!

This article is a huge, unorganized lump, most of it about the history of the Beach Boys. Somebody familiar with them should separate it into sections (e.g. band members, history, popular following/culture, etc.). Adding Cleanup tag

Hi there TexasDex. I've just looked at the article one more time, and I have to say that I agree. I'm guilty personally of concentrating so much more on the album discography instead of the main band page. I'll see what I can think up. Thank you for the tagging. Bobo192 17:23, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Manson paragraph

I took this out:

In the late 1960's they we're also connected, along with the Beatles, to the Charles Manson series of events. Though as soon as it was reported (before the Polanski incidents) that Manson had killed a local drug dealer, the Beach Boys attempted to distance themselves from the soon to be notorious killer.

I think there should be something in the article about the Manson connection, but it shouldn't be the second paragraph, as this was. Also, this is so vague and poorly-written that it's not very helpful. --Chowbok 04:15, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

Agree it merits mention, as he may even have had some input on one of their songs. Sfahey 04:27, 21 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Hasn't that old myth been laid to rest yet? Trekphiler 01:14, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
What myth? Manson wrote "Never Learn Not to Love", a late-60's Beach Boys single. --Chowbok 03:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
It is not a myth that Manson had connection wit da Beach Boys. --Localboy 00:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

while manson may have had some ties with the BB, in the big scheme of things - he was unimportant - they basically solidified a genre of music and of course, Brian Wilson is usually noted as one of America's greatest composers. And by the time of Manson's involvement with m,embers of the BB, they had released some 15-20 LP's and had a few dozen hits. It would be different if he was there from the beginning or wrote a few of their hit songs but he basically was a hanger on in an era when each band had hundreds of hanger-ons - he just happened to a psycho murderer so it's worth noting but in the scheme of the BB career - a minor footnote.

--

I thought only Dennis was ever connected to Manson. I also thought Manson only worte the lyrics to "Never Learn Not to Love". Can someone clear this up? -- Abstrator

Photo caption

Could we get some sort of a, "From left to right: Carl, Brian, Dennis, Mike, Al" thing for the photo caption? While sure, it's depressing that I don't know, it'll be even worse one generation, or two generations, or more down the track, when such knowledge will have dwindled even further. In three words: "Which one's which?" Actually, you could argue that that's only two words. But don't. Because who cares. - Vague | Rant 13:04, Jun 5, 2005 (UTC)

I did a couple of the photos. Bruce Johnston appears in the last one, but I dunno if that is David Marks again on the right. Anyone else know? Sfahey 18:14, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Updated photo captions with names/links Roygbiv666 4 July 2005 21:07 (UTC)

Surely Wikipedia should avoid diminishing Mike Love's role and contributions

It is a travesty to compare Carl Wilson's role as a singer as equivalent to Mike Love's role as a lead vocalist during the period from 1961 to 1967 when the Beach Boys were regularly hitting the charts. I won't play down the role that Carl played, the essential lead guitarist, but it's a fact that Carl only sang lead on one song during that period, on Pet Sounds "God Only Knows". Mike sang lead on these songs: Surfin, 409, Surfin Safrari, Surfer's Rule, Our Car Club, Surfin USA, Little Deuce Coupe, Little Honda, Fun Fun Fun, Be True To Your School, Little Saint Nick, When I Grow Up To Be A Man, I Get Around, California Girls, Let's Do It Again. He also co-wrote most of these songs and many others. Go check out the Beach Boys Discography at http://www.sabotage.demon.co.uk/archive/beach/disco.htm#safari What you'll find is that if Mike Love only sang the lead on a couple of songs per album, the undeniable fact is that it was those songs that were the hits from the albums. It was, therefore, the success that the Beach Boys enjoyed from the songs that Mike was singing and making into hits that afforded Brian the ability to write the music that filled out the rest of the albums. Equally important, it was the success that the touring members of the Beach Boys established that made it possible for the band to survive and thrive, affording Brian the opportunity to avoid being totally consumed by his own excesses and eccentricities. Mike Love knew that the Beach Boys music that the public wanted to hear was Fun Fun Fun, Surfin USA and Kokomo, and not She's Goin Bald, Vegetables or Wonderful, some of the more forgettable Van Dyke Parks 'contributions'. Of course later there were other major contributors, Carl, Dennis, Jack Reiley and all the others. They were all essential, they were all loved, they all contributed in so many ways, for so many years, and it continues today. Mike and Bruce still fill the stands at county fairs, bringing as much of the Beach Boys to today's fans as is possible. Let's not slight them for doing that. They should be only admired for doing it. The Beach Boys is not a band any longer, perphaps, but it's a cultural heritage. Mike and Bruce don't have to get out there still, after 43 years, but they do. Let's be fair to them - and to ourselves - the Beach Boys live on because of them, and not without them. In the future I hope you will let the facts sway you more than your empathy for Brian's life. Brian was, in a very real sense, just one of the Beach Boys, just as John Lennon was one of The Beatles. Mike Love was (and still is) one of the Beach Boys that the public can still see today. Let's not berate him or his role in the history of the Beach Boys for that. GeneMosher

I don't see any disrespect or intentional diminishing of anybody's role, it's just that the article has developed with a focus on the timeframe where Brian dominated. I think the way to address this would be to fill out the "early days" section with more detail, including documentation of Carl and the others' contribution. Right now most of the article focuses on the Pet Sounds/Smile period, which rightly is Brian-intensive. This is an invitation for you to contribute, by the way. Jgm 12:53, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I agree. Relax. The sentence in question had to do with BW working with a new LYRICIST, which is why I thought the lead singer thing was not relevant, whether correct or not. BTW, critics would certainly rate Carl the best guitarist, and for my money he had the best voice as well, while Mike Love sang all those sing-songy nasal "fun" songs. Sfahey 17:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

=

To correct a statement made above: Carl sang leads on about a dozen songs that I know of during the period of 1961-67, including the following : Please Let Me Wonder, Girl Don't Tell Me, God Only Knows, Good Vibrations, Wild Honey, Darlin.

Perhaps it was Mike himself who wrote some of the above remarks. I agree that the article shouldn't be present a negative bias about Mike. Still, I think it is fair to indicate that his role in the songwriting is not as extensive as would be suggested by the number of Wilson/Love credits. If anyone disagrees with the following, I'd like to know why:

Mike's contributuins were almost entirely limited to lyrics, and in most cases he only co-wrote them. In fact, judging by his own remarks in interviews, and the remarks of others, he often only contributed a line or two. This makes sense, if you reason it out: Before the credits were revised to add his name to many songs, he *was* credited regularly as co-author on songs even in the early years. How much sense does it make that he would have allowed his name to be omitted from so many songs, album after album, for four or five years, *if* he had contributed any more than minor touches? I read his comments on I Get Around where he makes a big deal about the fact that he wrote the line "Round, round, git around" - an important line, but perhaps all he added.

As for Carl, if Mike should have had co-writing credit for a few words, Carl should have had co-composer credit for composing the guitar solos in many songs. Or perhaps the Beach Boys, and others, should have done as the Doors did and credit songs to the group? I intend these remarks as rhetorical. What's done is done, but what's important is that we make a realistic assessment.

So, I don't think Mike deserves for posterity to credit him to the degree "Wilson/Love" suggests (like Rogers/Hammerstein, or Bacharach/David). I think the truth is that Brian primarily wrote the songs Mike's name was later added to, and that usually Mike merely suggested a few tweaks to the lyrics. Documented remarks and common sense suggest this. I think it is valid for this to be somehow indicated in the article without suggesting an anti-Mike bias. -- abstrator Abstrator 23:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are You Kidding?

You wrote (i.e., restored) these statments, without verification. I challenge you to verify them, to provide proof that they are truthful. If you can't do this, then you should NOT restore them and assert them to be factual.

The actual legal document filed contains many half-truths and inaccuracies, including everything from crediting Mike as the main force behind the group and accusing Al Jardine of mental instabilities all the way down to getting the names of Brian’s song titles incorrect (i.e. ‘Love and Money’ instead of Brian’s trademark ‘Love and Mercy’.)

Can you provide any support to your assertion to the effect that Mike Love (who is the ONLY member of the original group to attend EVERY SINGLE Beach Boys Concert ever held in the past 43 years) is NOT the main force behing the group today? Who might be, then? Do you have any support to your assertion that, again, in the context of the lawsuit, Al Jardine does not suffer from 'mental instabilities'. You can't use Wikipedia assert that a claim in a pending lawsuit is untrue without some kind of evidence. Wikipedia (i.e., you) has no business going there. Instead of paraphrasing what the lawsuit specifies, how about actually quoting it? Is it a half truth or an inaccuracy that the song title is incorrect? You assert that it is. On what basis? 

   Mike Love hasn't attended every single concert by any means, he put off a tour to tour with his own band celebration, which featured several Brian Wilson songs on their 2 albums.  Mike put off and skipped dates for the Celebration tour and also in the early 90s he missed somewhere around half a tour.   Furthermore since the beach boys are not a creating entity any longer, the people behind the band or BRI (brither records incorporated) which consists of carl's estate, brian, al, mike, and dennis' estate.  Bruce is absent and all the original members have equal say, therefore the driving force is the board of BRI, not mike, not brian.   both have solo albums in the works anyways.
Most independent observers believe that this suit is not really about any of the damages Mike Love claims, but in reality the beginning of a struggle for the rights to use the name “The Beach Boys” in future recordings and performances. Mike Love was granted that license by BRI (the corporate entity behind the Beach Boys), has vigorously defended it, and looks like he will stop at nothing to retain it.

The part about "not really about the claims... but a struggle for the rights to use the name" is pure speculation and can be construed as actionable libel, I'll wager, and is represented here as nothing more than an undocumented (not to mention unproveable) opinion. The part about "he will stop at nothing to retain the license" can also be construed as a libelous. If Mike Love and/or The Beach Boys decides that it is your intention to libel them then you are going to end up as a defendant of a lawsuit yourself and you're going to make Wikipedia look worse than it does already.

It was documented earlier in this talk page, by the way, that Brian specifically denies that he's a member of The Beach Boys, yet there it is, "(1961–present) - still officially a member though not a touring member". Do you care what Brian says about this? (Guardian, January, 2004) "I'm proud of Mike. He's licensed the Beach Boys name, so he's the Beach Boys - and Al Jardine is Al Jardine and I'm Brian Wilson." and later "I tried to call Mike last night but his phone was disconnected. I wanted to break the ice and see how he feels about music and life and everything, but I couldn't get hold of him." Take a lesson from Brian, why don't you?

Since 1998, Mike Love has scrupulously fulfilled his license obligations, using the trademark to perform as The Beach Boys in approximately 150 live Beach Boy concerts annually worldwide. He has paid over eleven million dollars to BRI as royalties on this license (25% of which goes to Jardine!). What do you say to all those people at all those concerts every year? Do you tell them they just don't understand something that you do about The Beach Boys?

I think these statements on The Beach Boys page represent some of the worst of Wikipedia. If it were up to Brian the last Concert Tour of the Beach Boys would have been in 1964 and history would be very different from what it is. Mike and the others accepted that they would carry on without Brian on Tour, just as Brian accepted that it was Mike's lead on a song that typically meant it would go high on the charts, even to number one (I Get Around). Don't Worry Baby was a better song to me, but it only rose to #24. Without the strength of the Hits, the tunes that Mike sang, Capitol would have never even given Brian access to the recording studio! Don't the facts and history impress you at all? Like Brian and Hate Mike if you want to, but leave it out of Wikipedia. Don't you feel embarrassed to use Wikipedia to have your prejudices hanging out all over the place at the expense of the facts? GeneMosher 19:38, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Capital thought Brian did everything, Brian chose who to put on on Capital hated Pet Sounds but allowed Brian to do what he wanted. Your point is lame.

I agree: there should only be a sentence or so about the 2005 Love v. Wilson lawsuit, as the facts have yet to emerge. The allegations appearing in court-filed documents and in public statements cannot possibly be substantiated, yet. ~SMW

To say that Mike Love had any sort of a huge impact on the Beach Boys success is ridiculous. Brian was obviously the helmsman of the group, though in the 70's it was mainly Carl's compositions on the albums. Love was mearly a lyracist and was against a large amount of Brian's creative expansion. He was also only regarded as the lead vocalist as he could not play an instrument, so all he did was sing. He definatly was not there because he had the best voice. - MH

MH, you obviously don't know what you're talking about. "In the 70s it was mainly Carl's compositions on the albums" was it? So Feel Flows, Long Promised Road, Trader, Angel Come Home, Goin' South and Full Sail, plus a couple of cowrites with Al Jardine, make up the majority of the nine albums recorded and released in the 70s do they? Brian Wilson is very obviously the main reason for the Beach Boys' success, but it's a fact that Love sang lead on a majority of the band's US hits, and on a majority of tracks on their most successful US albums (the band's hits outside the US were mostly later, and usually had Carl or Al vocals), and that he has a cowriting credit on all four of the band's US number 1 hits (as well as on Do It Again, a UK number 1). And as for him not being 'there because he had the best voice', while I personally dislike Love's voice in the tenor range (I like his bass vocals), Brian Wilson disagrees. See for example the interview he gave to VOX magazine in 1995, at a time when he wasn't especially friendly with the band. He says Love is the 'second best' singer working in rock music (after Danny Hutton), while Carl 'can't sing for shit' and Al is a nice guy but not a great singer. One can certainly argue that the band's *artistic* successes have nothing to do with Love - the man has no great talent that I can see, and seems to have opposed most of the more interesting moves Brian Wilson made over the years (though interestingly not the Love You album, which he was a big champion of), but to deny him a role in the band's *commercial* success, at least in the US, is just ignorant. Stealth Munchkin 15:44, 1 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Marcella Chart Position

According to the discography on Brian Wilson's website, Marcella reached #110 in the USA on the Billboard charts. All the other information there is accurate so I don't see why this wouldn't be. I added it to the article. --Analogdemon (talk) 15:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi nick ,,,he is a monkey

Guitarist Daniel

Anybody remember the name of the guitarist who joined the band sometime in the 80's for a while who's name was Daniel? I forget the full name. --Localboy 00:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Love (alone) recorded in UK [02/1982] with Adrian Baker who remained close to the group. Never heard about a young ? man named Daniel...

Nov.5, 1982: Brian was fired from group by the other band members... Stephan KŒNIG 03:04, 11 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scott Hogan

Scott Hogan. Any info about dat kid: who he was and what his was his thing wit da band? He is in photos and was hanging out wit them alots like some kinda of mascot. --Localboy 00:15, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. discography and chart positiions

Think I'll add some day other missing singles and EPs and their chart positions onto this page. Stephan KŒNIG 17:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free. --Analogdemon (talk) 18:39, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, dear. Never saw them in Europe....But the Bob Geldof's Live 1985...Wanna get the logo (clam shell)? (with kind permission of B.G. and Rodden Shaw of the Live8live team Internet Staff. No problem. :-)

Listening to these cassettes in my car is still a great pleasure to me: Enough like this... :-) Stephan KŒNIG 20:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't understand anything with the (C)'s. UK: as "free for any purpose"... Stephan KŒNIG 00:35, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Additional information

  • Little Davy Summers aka Russ Regan, the man who named The Beach Boys
  • Judy / Karate (*): 02/1962 DNC (Deck Records) (*)[a.k.a. Beach Boys Stomp]
  • Barbie / What is a young girl made of: 04/62 (Kenny and The Cadets, Brian Wilson on (back-up vcl? or lead?) (Randy 422) DNC
  • My stingray: The Four Speeds feat. Dennis Wilson in the lineup/line-up albeit (marked his last recorded appearance with the Four Speeds...
  • 409: US 76, 4th.06.62
  • Shut down: US 23, 3rd.04.1963
  • Little deuce coupe: US 15, 22nd.07.63
  • In my room: US 23, 28th.10.1963
  • Why do fools fall in love: US 120!, 2nd.03.64
  • Don't worry baby: US 24, 11th.05.64
  • "The monkey's uncle" (feat. uncredited background/back-up vocals by the B.B. [from the Walt Disney Motion Picture of the same name]/US chart:??-->DNC?/"How will I know my love" (from Annette's new Vista LP "Something borrowed, something blue"), with uncredited orchestral accompaniment directed by Tutti (Salavatore) Camarata. Produced by Camarata, Buena VISTA Records F-440 (matrix 3401), Walt Disney Music, ASCAP, 1964/65. Pretty good. :-)
  • She knows me too well: US 101!, 08/64
  • "Four by the Beach Boys", 21st.09.64

1. Wendy: US 44 2. Don't back down: DNC 3. Little Honda: US 65 4. Hushabye: DNC

  • Please let me wonder: US 52, 15th.02.65
  • Barbara Ann: Cash Box #1 (o.v. as by The Regents on Roulette, 1961)
  • God only knows: US 39, 8th.01.66 [2 UK]
  • Sound of free/??????????, 12/70: Dennis Wilson and Rumbo (UK only) DNC
  • Sail on sailor: reentered the UK chart in 1975 and peaked at #49
  • It's OK, 09/76: feat. sax work by Wizzard's Roy Wood (former The Electric Light Orchestra [ELO])
  • Runnin' around the world/One good reason, 1981: Mike Love, BOARDWALK -Entertainment CO.- (in France, distributed by VOGUE P.I.P.), # 101576
  • 1984: The B.B. made a one-off recording with Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons, "East meets West" issued on the Four Seasons' own label FBI (DNC)
  • Oct.86: Good music as by Joan Jett and The Blackhearts with backing vocals by the B.B. (ex-The Runaways: saw them in Belgium (unfortunately without Cherrie Currie) :-)), US 83, Boardwalk -Entertainment CO.-, unknown reference (sure not too hard to find)
  • Wipe out/???????, 09/87: The Fat Boys w. the B.B., Tin Pan Apple (US/UK) 2 UK; 12 US
  • Wouldn't it be nice: UK chart 58, 06/90
  • Good vibrations: reentered the UK chart in 07/76 at #18 [maybe already listed?]
  • California dreamin'/Lady Liberty: 10/86, 12-string gtr played by Roger McGuinn (former known as Jim) of The Byrds, US 57 [Barry McGuire recorded the o.v. a few weeks earlier just before The Mamas and The Papas back in the late 1965...]
  • Kokomo/Tutti frutti-->Richard Wayne Penniman :-): Elektra/WEA Int'l 7-68385
  • Hold on/?????, 05/1990: Wendy and Carnie Wilson-->Brian's daughters; 1 US, 9th.06.1990 (exactly 25 years after The B.B.'s Help me Rhonda was at #1).
  • Fun fun fun (short version)[to become a longer version on the forthcoming album Don't Stop (30th Anniversary Album), 731453103528, 11th.04.96]: credited as "Status Quo featuring the Beach Boys on backing vocals", Polydor/PolyGram UK [Deutsche Grammophon DE = Germany)], 02/96, UK 24 (one day, Parfitt and Rossi and the others thought wouldn't it be nice to record this song and asked the B.B. to re-record it with them..CDs Polydor/PolyGram TV 576 262-2, 02/96 [Status Quo: "The Hit Machine"-boogie blues ahead. Saw them twice in Belgium :-)]
  • Additional info on above: nowadays, Polydor + RSO + MCA/DECCA + Motown and many others are (still) owned by the French Vivendi Universal Conglomerate (known as Universal Music, UK/FR and also known as Universal Records Motown Group, USA) which repurchased the Universal Studios (!) back in the late 90's...The Americans at Universal's Studios thought the Frenchmen were laughing...S.Koenig

Think I have to look back the singles disco. See you later. Stephan KŒNIG 22:23, 1 March 2006 (UTC) [GMT + 1) :-)[reply]

Picture

This article really needs a picture(s). Can we use one of the albumcover pictures, or is that outside of fair use? Eivindspeak! 02:12, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to "Mid-career brings a change in leadership"

I made some changes which may require explanation for some.

The uneven mix of styles on Carl and the Passions-"So Tough" doesn't warrant "a unique, R&B-flavored LP". As for "Sail On, Sailor", #79 and #49 do not warrant "it hit the charts in both 1973 and 1975."

I can't accept at all the remarks on the album "Love You", that it "reflected both Wilson's continuing retreat from the world ("Johnny Carson," "Solar System") and his continued introspection ("Airplane," "The Night Was So Young"). "If Mars had life on it/I might find my wife on it" from "Solar System" sums up the oddball preoccupations of Love You " No, the album reflects a *return* to the world, writing and performing songs. "Johnny Carson" is a funny song written about seven years earlier. "Solar System" is a cute children's song. And "introspection" ? I ask anyone who questions my removing *that* to listen to the songs. While a few songs are embarrassing, most of the songs are just catchy pop. It's a mistake to make almost everything about Brian's famous problems.

Abstrator 08:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

mood?

"...it caught the mood of the country and surged to #1..."

1974 was a terrible year for the USA's mood. Watergate. Vietnam collapsing, the first oil crisis. Maybe this clause should be dropped, or changed to "...it provided a mood boost the country sorely needed and surged to #1..." 71.131.76.78 19:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

needs more pictures

This article has massive voids of text and needs more pics. Any suggestions as to which? M.C. Brown Shoes 11:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_Beach_Boys&oldid=55326011"