Talk:Dazed and Confused (Jake Holmes song)

POV in article

i have a strong POV in this case, so I wont edit the article directly, but i disagree with the amount of credit given to Led Zeppelin for reworking the song. IMO what they did is <blatant pov>reduce the quality of the lyrics</blatant pov>, then have Jimmy Page noodling away over the outro, put another verse after the outro, then cover the whole thing in strange soundeffects.

"The original idea for this tune came from folk singer Jake Holmes, who had previously written a very similar psychedelic acoustic song"

This implies the Holmes' version only provided a nugget of the Zep song, which is true if you think half an hour of running up and down a pentatonic scale constitutes good song writing, but is misleading given that the whole structure of the song is what was written by Holmes, the rhyme scheme, the repetition of the lyric "I'm dazed and confuse" at the start of each verse, the chomatic riff that forms the majority of the music, the instrumental section from 2:00 in the zep version (just after the bit that sounds like Paranoid (which, admittedly Zep wrote, and a year before BS).

I suggest someone take a listen to the song (available here, probably fair use) and give Jake Homles more credit in the article.

Insist it persists 04:12, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm

Well i dont see where Zeppelin is getting all this credit, you are right about them not needing all the credit, but if you are suggesting that the article should reduce the bands credit completely then it would also reduce the objectivity of the article, Led Zeppelin added their own touch to it, no ones subjective opinion about the quality of the song is important enough to influence these articles.

5:14, 27 February 2006

Holmes entry

I've done an entry on Jake Holmes, which may alleviate your criticisms, Insist it persists. I don't think the article is POV -- to be fair, Zeppelin did make the song famous -- Holmes' part as a songwriter is worth noting, but it's an interesting factoid, no more, no less. Dazed and Confused makes people think of Zeppelin, not Holmes. -- Palthrow 22:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to see something about Page denying that it belonged to Holmes.

Dazed and Confused

"Dazed and Confused" was one of Led Zeppelin's signature numbers, but this song was originally written by Jake Holmes and included on his 1967 album The Above Ground Sound of Jake Holmes. A 1990 interview with Jimmy Page in Musician is revealing. MUSICIAN: I understand "Dazed and Confused" was originally a song by Jake Holmes. Is that true? PAGE: [Sourly] I don't know. I don't know. [Inhaling] I don't know about all that. MUSICIAN: Do you remember the process of writing that song? PAGE: Well, I did that with the Yardbirds originally.... The Yardbirds were such a good band for a guitarist to play in that I came up with a lot of riffs and ideas out of that, and I employed quite a lot of those in the early Zeppelin stuff. MUSICIAN: But Jake Holmes, a successful jingle writer in New York, claims on his 1967 record that he wrote the original song. PAGE: Hmm. Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. I'd rather not get into it because I don't know all the circumstances. What's he got, The riff or whatever? Because Robert wrote some of the lyrics for that on the album. But he was only listening to...we extended it from the one that we were playing with the Yardbirds. MUSICIAN: Did you bring it into the Yardbirds? PAGE: No, I think we played it 'round a sort of melody line or something that Keith [Relf] had. So I don't know. I haven't heard Jake Holmes so I don't know what it's all about anyway. Usually my riffs are pretty damn original [laughs] What can I say?