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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Fearwig (talk | contribs) at 00:36, 7 June 2006. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Notice

I moved the (undated) list of (apparently) problem universes to leave room for talk, to this sub-page: talk:list_of_fictional_universes/problems

As I found it, this article page is very confusing to see, and there are obviously not enough people involved as evidenced by the lack of discussion.

See the Motion to Revise section below for details. --FrankB 14:34, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Begining before 09May2006

Perhaps the Novels and short stories section should be merged with the Literature section. We (???) think that the D'ni series (Myst) should be classified as science fiction. --24.106.177.36 03:43, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Pern: space travel, genetic engineering, re-introduction of lost technology ... it must be fantasy!
Should Koholint, Termina, Labrynna, Holodrum and/or Subrosia be listed as separate universes under video games? (All appearing in various Legend of Zelda games.) --Freso 15:57, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say 1 universe with several islands, or "worlds" or what have you. Peter S. 23:05, 16 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Organization of this page

This page is oddly organized. At first it seems to be organized by genre (science fiction, fantasy, etc.), but then it becomes organized by medium (literature, TV/movies, comic books, et cetera). This leads to oddities such as DC Universe being listed under "Multidimensional fantasy" and "Comic books". I think the page should be reorganized to be either by genre or by medium, but I don't feel strongly on which way it should go. Any thoughts? --Josiah Rowe 15:40, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Genre might be easiest/simplest, as, for example, the Hitchhiker's series now exists in the mediums of radio program, TV program, album(s), computer game, novels, and film. MakeRocketGoNow 19:10, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Peter S. 22:15, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest that an additional page might be added of "List of fictional universes by medium" RandomCritic 21:39, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Limit for universes to be listed here?

Every piece of fiction creates its own universe by creating characters not existing in the real world and letting them do things they didn't do in the real world (wouldn't be fiction otherwise, duh! :-D). This brings the problem that, basically, this page might explode. Currently, most entries link to a article describing specifically the universe itself, but there are also some others, like many of the entries in the "video games" section. What would be an appropriate rule what should be added here?

  • Only universes that have a wikipedia page describing specifically the universe itself
  • An arbitrary list based on the principle that "the universe must feeel important", and in case of conflict, we discuss and vote
  • Something else?

Comments? Cheers! Peter S. 23:54, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest at least limiting the article to "multivolume" universes. That is, universes explored in series of novels, or in various media. Speculative catholic 12:22, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That's a nice idea. Which current universes would this change drop from the list? Peter S. 16:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Major Revision

I revised the page to omit duplications, fix links, and classify world by type of fictional world (which usually but not always overlaps with genre). I moved the classification by medium to a new page (List of fictional universes by medium) but this page still needs work.

There may be some mistakes in the classification of various worlds, as I am not familiar with every setting and depended upon Wikipedia and other online sources which may be misleading or incomplete. Go ahead and move any work that seems in the wrong place to a more appropriate spot. Thanks in advance. RandomCritic 03:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good job! :-) Peter S. 09:34, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Things to do

RandomCritic 13:59, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of candidates for addition - from Category:Fictional universes

What a mess. Any ideas for criteria for sorting through all this? I mean, I don't doubt that in some sense the Berenstain Bears exist in their own fictional world. Obviously, it has talking "bears" (that look less like real bears than a stuffed teddy). But I harbor some doubt as to whether this list was designed for that sort of "world". What could we say? That a fictional universe/world needs to have a distinctive geography? Needs to be large-scale, at least continent-sized? Needs to depict a type of civilization different from that contemporary with the writer? I see the point (above) about a "universe" that connects a group of books but that could let in every hack writer who produces a sequel. Same questions, mutatis mutandis, wrt. tv shows, anime, RPGs, videogames. RandomCritic 02:01, 3 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]



Motion to Revise

I cut out the (undated) list of (apparently) problem universes to leave room for talk into this sub-page: talk:list_of_fictional_universes/problems

As I found it, this article page is very confusing to see, and there are obviously not enough people involved as evidenced by the lack of discussion.

  1. IMHO, the article probably needs to be split multiple times (fork) and be morphed itself into a list of lists reflecting the coresponding category Category:Fictional universes (which last night I annoted with this as the main article).
  2. Classifications like ficton need to be considered in the reasoning, and no matter what,
  3. some 'Checklist of criteria and rules' for placing 'universes' (whether covered (yet) in our articles or not) listed herein or on it's sub-pages should be boxed and replace the notice box at the top.

I'll have notified user talk:Peter_S. and user talk:RandomCritic directly, as they seem to be the only editors engaged in discourse, and calling for some help from one or two others including a librarian to at least discuss the reorganization.

I'm minded that this should go up on an RFC, VP, or peer review to draw more attention if we can't get some good ideas here below. I've placed a Clean above as well for the same purpose. Best regards, FrankB 14:34, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on Reorg

  1. Propose the article be split.
  2. Sectioned by literary (sub-many including 'comics'), mythological, multimedia (digital implimentations), 'multiple-media', screen-arts (sub-television, sub-film, and 'cartoons'), etc.
  3. multiple-media' implimentations be co-listed with link to main trunk, organized 'by 'origin where occured first, but not worrying that something is listed twice, thrice or such, as if it is to be comprehensive and useful to users, the easiest 'searching effort' should strike 'gold'; tagging the origin is, IMHO, important.
  4. The cross-linking comments (terse like a disambig page) are the spirit of the guideline: WP:Btw.
(Belatedly revised 'hurried bad effects' above towards 'intended and hoped for' emphasis and clarity. Can't make a Doctor wait, even (or perhaps especially) if he is going to shove a six foot camera-snake up your rear! <G>) FrankB 02:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comments? FrankB 14:43, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for inviting me here. You know, a "list of fictional universes" is the same as a "list of all fictional works" (minus cases when two stories talk about the same universe), because any fiction creates its own "universe". So this is an incredible huge list we're planning here, and I'm not so sure what the benefit of it would be. Splitting the list up won't increase the benefit, neither: there would be no chance that such a list would ever reach just 10% of being complete. I see only one way out: We define some narrow rules about which works might enter here. There are quite a few ideas about such rules on this page, and we could just pick one. What do you think? Peter S. 14:57, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Two suggestions

Howdy all - I'm a librarian, and my goal is always to facilitate access to information, so my first thought was, if I were Jo user, what would make more sense to me? One kind of reader might be looking for a particular "universe" to see where it originated, and where else it has spread. Another might be looking at a particular type of media to see what "universes" were available in a certain medium.

My first suggestion is to create a table, with these headings (and links wherever possible): the name of the universe, the original medium where it appeared, other media where it's used, and a see also link if necessary to a portal, main category, or other universes (i.e. the aforementioned Asimov robot-Foundation connection). It would look something like this:

Universe Original medium Other media Type See also
Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends Book Television, film, video Fantasy TUGS
Star Wars Film Books, video games, television Science fiction Star Wars Portal

My second suggestion is to make this list available sorted different ways: one by the name of the universe, one by original medium, and one by type.

This is all I can think of at the moment, but I haven't had my coffee yet...HTH, Her Pegship 15:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at the (now relatively stable) Planets in science fiction list, and see if that structure would be useful for this page. By the way, the current look of the page reflects a structure -- not unreasonable in itself -- placed upon an arbitrarily selected sub-group of fictional works, simply those that happened to be listed here at the time. There is no other rhyme or reason behind the selections. -RandomCritic 20:37, 9 May 2006 (UTC) whoops :)[reply]
That's a good example of what it would look like without the table formatting, plus it would be easier for noobs to contribute (as table formatting can be a little daunting). I would, of course, want to pretty it up a bit, remove those annoying # signs, etc. <g>— Preceding unsigned comment added by Pegship (talk • contribs) 21:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, split it up, with each header as a whole new article. With that kind of space you can afford to be lax in standards and put everything that has a claim to be here, in here.--HereToHelp 20:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


slight refactor/section indent change FrankB 02:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I drastically altered the colouration and fixed the indenting at this talkpage, per discussion at User talk:Fabartus#Color Suggestions. -Quiddity 04:57, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Where does this end?

I hate to rain on this obsessive-compulsive parade, but couldn't this article include every work of fiction ever produced, in some form or another, especially speculative/science fiction and fantasy? It took me a moment to even think of one useful purpose such an article might serve, but there is one: to simply outline the conceptual differences between such fictions, as this does to some degree by detailing the different categories of fictional universes that can exist. There is absolutely no function served by creating a repository in which everyone can note their favorite fictional universe. Examples are useful, sure, but I think some limits should be in place. I put my opinion out tentatively--clearly someone is interested, if so much has been done here, but I think this is more a case of interest on the part of the creators than on the part of potential readers. No one can really gain any kind of knowledge from these "shout outs" to our favorite works of fiction. Fearwig 03:52, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree 100%. Peter S. 09:11, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Someone has nominated the article for Afd. I've been remiss in getting back here... actually did so endorsing Pegships organization suggestions, but lost the edit in a browser snafu. Apparently the nominators care little for the fact that one might just like to browse and poke around in a related group of things, nor do they seem to care it's the base article for the category of the same name. See Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_fictional_universes, nominated by User:Fearwig on the third of June.
As far as how far, and what set or subset of tales create a fictional universe of note, seems to me the Category:Fictional universes has a pretty good criteria in place already, and if a user wants to add something he/she are fond of, so what. Such can be fun reading. In a paraphrase of Jimbo Wales words (re:Last weeks VP Wikipedia in the News... interview with Jimbo), 'It never ceases to amaze me the great diversity of things great and small that someone that cares about them so much as to create an article.'
If Jimbo's happy with such, who are deletionists to say nay to him? // FrankB 19:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm running down the exact quote, and refactored this into the reorg section header. // FrankB 19:50, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As i noted at the AfD, i've added a {{Dynamic list}} template to the top, which i think covers the objection sufficiently. A complete list of fictional universes would be still far far smaller than all the actors in imdb. Please don't try to get such large quantities of work deleted just because you disagree with its premise. It may end up proving very useful to any number of curious readers. Thanks. --Quiddity 00:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you believe there are more actors in IMDB than fictional universes ever invented, you are sorely, sorely mistaken. I can take every novel off my shelf--no--every novel on Amazon, Gutenberg, and a million novels out of publication, and put them in this thread. I respect that people have put work into this, but it is (as I said) the very definition of indiscriminate. If you think Star Wars, Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Don Quixote, and Are You Being Served? are related concepts, you are using a form of "related" that actually causes damage to the logic centers of my brain. If the deletion request fails (and I suspect it will, judging from the initial response), I will happily submit to the will of Wikipedians and add every single fictional universe on Wikipedia to this list until my fingers cramp and fall off, legitimately adding to the completeness of this list, yes, but hopefully proving that its length, when complete, will be unacceptable, unreadable, and really utterly worthless. After all that work, I will be happy to see it gone. My apologies for any hyperbole and any well, spirited language used here, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around this one. Fearwig 00:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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