Talk:Josef Mengele/Archive 1
Display issues?
In the first part of the article (Early life, career, and education), the fourth sentence is displaying multi-national with a space between the i and o. I checked the actual article and there is no tags for this. Any ideas?
Revisionist History/Concealing Truth
In my opinion, this article does not put enough emphasis on Josef Mengele's intelligence, good-looks, and academic aptitude as a young man. It also does not contain the well-known fact that he was not loved, and borderline abused by his parents which may have explained, (but don't get me wrong, will never EXCUSE what he did at Auschwitz later in life). His status as a war hero in WW2 also deserves more explanation and credit. These facts are rarely, if ever spoken about by the mainstream media, and are encyclopedic as long as they can be substantiated in fact. If necessary I will cite my sources when editing this article, including the COURT TV website which has perhaps the most thorough and detailed biography of Dr. Mengele that I have ever seen posted online. The bottom line is what made Dr. Mengele so intriguing and different was that he was anything but the one-sided monster that his later atrocities garnered him infamy for (and deservedly so). The bottom line is, if a handsome, athletic, intelligent young man today gained a PhD at 24, plus an M.D. at 27, then forsakes a lucrative medical or academic career to join the military as a commissioned officer who volunteers for combat, plus peformes heroic acts of bravery (pulling 2 men out of a burning tank, deep behind Soviet lines, under enemy fire), and survives, only to be awarded some of the most prestigious military awards of the era, comparable to the U.S. Purple Heart, Silver Star, and Distinguished Service Cross, he would be plastered over the media and worshipped as a war hero in modern society. This was a complex man who deserves a complex biography, detailing both his acts of good and evil. I am including these positive aspects of Mengele's life in order to give a full perspective on the man, and NOT in any means to excuse his crimes. Hate is easy to marginalize when its perpetrated by a bunch of drunk, undeducated skinheads talking in a bar about why the world is terrible because of certain races. Its tougher and more thought provoking when educated heroes sink to the levels that they do in order to achieve those ends. There is more to this man's story than is currently in the article. When I post the positive FACTUAL data about Mengele's life, please stop editing it out. This article should reflect both Mengele's good and evil sides, and the reader should be able to make up their own minds about him and why he did what he did. Stereotypes are easy to throw around, but the deeper truth is harder to palate. This article should be about EVIL, but lets be fair and balanced about it.
In my opinion this article is not about "GOOD and EVIL" , but about relevant information about a major war criminal of wwII. this article needs a good clean up. the evaluation of mengele from the auschwitz authorities is horrible and as useless as some nazi propaganda in a article about wwII.
how about a quote from some survivor who experienced him on the job at the ramp doing selection.
the article could do a better job explaining what the selection mean and what implications it had for the victims
also frankly i don't quite get your point about heroic acts of bravery, he saved two people in the war you say, so what. that's rather thin on the plus side for somebody who is responsible for the death of thousands. and don't forget in which war he won his medals in. i fail to see much of mengeles good sides that the article should reflect trueblood 20:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
The deed that he won that Iron Cross for is well documented. It is a historical fact and deserves mention. You are one of the revisionist people I was talking about obviously.
Why don't give a reference for this fact. I don't understand what you mean by revisionist. I thought that term is usually reseverd for people that deny the holocaust, like that quote from the ausschwitz administration came from a revisionist web page. I don't want to see mengele described as a demon but just what he did. so far this article somewhat tried to paint a positive picture as far as possible. the fact that he was awarded in this war does not hint to a positive side but fits in smoothly with his later deeds, as does the topic of his 'brilliant' academic career.trueblood 11:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I added the quote you wanted. I'm not including any of this to show a "positive" side of Mengele, but to highlight the complexity of this individual. Again, one of the reasons Mengele is such an intriguing historical figure is because he tends not to fit the norm of the typical hatemonger. It is important to note how many other infamous Nazis such as Eichmann, Amon Goeth from Schindler's List, Himmler (a former chicken farmer), and even Hitler himself had lives marred with failures prior to them becoming involved with the Nazi bureaucracy. Mengele's enormous intellect and potential, combined with his fits of kindness (such as with the troupe of dwarves), makes his evil deeds all that more shocking. I think you and I both agree that Mengele was an evil person, and i'm not trying to "prop him up", just adding facts about his life to give a full picture of the man.
where are you taking all this stuff about mengele's enormous intellect from. i must admit i don't give a lot on the court tv bio. it is written by a journalist not a historian, it's main purpose i almost want to say is to entertain, not to inform. it's rather sensational.as for mengele's intellect, he subscribed to complete bogus science and performed absurd experiments not just from an ethical but from a scientific point of view.trueblood 19:59, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
He earned an M.D. and a Ph.D. from two of the most prestigious universities in Europe at the time, both recieved before he was 28 years old. I think that certainly says something about his intellect. I'm not saying he was a genius, he obviously wasn't, but he did have a lot more education than your average SS officer.
Bad Link Discrepancy
The link to his mother Walburga redirects to to Saint Walpurga, who lived 1300 years ago. 81.208.83.222
Spam
The first part of the article, and even throughout it, has been spammed. Don't get me wrong, I believe that this man was evil, but spamming his wikipedia article is not the proper way to display your disgust. I would change it, but I don't know what it had said. -Andrew Markiewicz
Early life wording
- Mengele in a car and went to the car and was so was born in Günzburg, Germany,...
This obviously needs to be fixed. I would, but I'm not even sure what it's supposed to be saying - was he born in a car on it's way towards Gunzburg? Can anybody clean this up? Cat Parade 19:43, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Pronouncing Mengele's name
Is it a hard or soft 'g' sound? -Mr. Tachyon
- My teacher pronounces his name "men-GEL-ee" Link9er 15:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
What if Mengele was paid off?
There's no denying that after WWII the Allies paid of the Japanese mad doctor of Unit 731 Shiro Ishii in exchange for all his biological and chemical tests on live human subjects. So isn't it suspicious that the "efforts" of the Allies failed to find Joseph Mengele despite their multiple successes at capturing other top war criminals?
We can agree that the tests of Mengele were the sickest crimes against humanity BUT his data collected was invaluble nonetheless. That's why I believe the Angel of Death was paid off secretly by the Allies, like the doctors of Unit 731, and all efforts to hunt him down was minimized. --Secret Agent Man 17:19, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Since I worked on Josef Mengele on a scientific basis, I revised the Mengele-biography. Several errrors corrected and some new information added. For information on my person and my book on the subject (for those who read German) at http://www.josef-mengele.de --Cellarius 09:55, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Wondering what he did between 1949 and 1979 in south-america? working? how was he financed? MJanich
- As far as I know he performed abortions for a living. Philwelch 22:00, 4 May 2004 (UTC)
- Are you joking? Kent Wang 06:38, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
- Any facts to back that up Philwelch? That would be one hell of a contribution to the article. --Arm
- Couldn't have - since it's not true. Information on where his funds came from added. --Cellarius 09:55, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The page of the German historical Museum [1] states he was sentenced to lifelong imprisonment in the Nuremberg doctors' trial. Include this in the article or not? Get-back-world-respect 15:07, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)
- How could he be sentenced to life in prison if he escaped Europe and was living in South America? --Arm
- In absentia. - Nunh-huh 07:26, 15 May 2004 (UTC)
- The information on Mengele provided by the DHM is more than faulty. The current version will be revised in the next weeks. Mengele was never tried, not even in absentia. --Cellarius 09:55, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- Exactly. Check the trial proceedings (first part) and trial proceedings (second part): Mengele was not tried in the Doctors' Trial. AFAIK, he was never tried at all. I've removed that sentence. Lupo 15:13, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Not sure if anyone has noticed, but if the second link under the External Links section, "A timeline of his life", is accessed, 2 popups windows appear. The guidelines set out in Wikipedia state that it's advisable to warn people of the popup windows. Would it be better to delete the link in question and provide another one with similiar information? I'm happy to do this. --Rjwd 04:08, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The article states, "Almost all of Mengele's experiments were of dubious scientific value." Are there any that weren't?
Probably none of Mengele's experiments, but it is important to note that some of the military science experiments carried out at other camps, such as Dachau, although barbaric and cruel, had some scientific and medical merit. These were mainly carried out by the Luftwaffe in order to help save pilots in different circumstances, such as being shot down over cold water or having to bail out. These included subjecting victims to extreme temperatures such as ice baths for extended periods of time, then reviving them. If i'm not mistaken, the current medically accepted method for treating hypothermia was derived from one of these Nazi experiments. Other experiments with altitude chambers helped to illustrate the effects of hypoxia and pressure changes at extreme altitudes on the human body. Again, these experiments inflicted great pain and suffering on innocent victims and are in no way justified, but data was gathered, and I believe it was used for some good. If anyone else knows about this please chime in and let me know, or correct any errors.
mention slayer?
To me it does not look sensible to mention a band which refers to Mengele in a song. This page is about the person Mengele not about where he was mentioned, I think. What is your opinion on this? Besserwissi 17:14, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I'm just interested, are there standards on Wikipedia for when to use a first name or a last name, or both, including a title, etc. These things can add a certain tone to any article so I think it's a pertinant question.
Copyright
This photo was added but it does not disclose Copyright details. I'm reverting to the previous photo.--AI 22:45, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
Gynecology?
I seem to remember hearing that Mengele contributed greatly to gynecology. Can anyone confirm or deny this? -GregoryWeir 16:29, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
- Mengele made no contributions whatsoever to medical science. He was nothing but a butcher.
--In that case shouldn't the article address the popular myth that some of Mengele's experiments contributed great things to human knowledge? So many people seem to believe this. Could someone who knows better than I do try and refute (or support?) this claim?
- Such as? Link9er 15:44, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
My Changes to the Article
Good afternoon I just wanted to say I am from the São Paolo area of Brasil pretty close to where Dr. Mengele was living before he died I just made some minor changes to the article such as the more precise location of his exile. I mean we have São Paolo "State" (which is huge like 40m people) and São Paolo "City" just like you guys have New York State and New York City so it's more accurate to say that he was living in Embu Brazil which is a city about 40 km West-South West of São Paolo city. Embu is really really cool and is known around here for its artistic community. Also I remember that when he drowned he wasn't swimming in the ocean which is more like like the beaches south and east of São Paolo but the beach in Embu is more like a bay or inlet type thing.
I think it's important to know that he pretty much lived openly in Brazil among his friends at least and was said to have liked it here for its tranquil and friendly attitude (as does everyone actually). In response to an above user he didn't always work at medical jobs I know that he was a factory supervisor in southern Brazil in the early 1970s for instance. I have a minor personal tie in to this since one of my (girl)friends claims to have met him when she was a little girl. Her family is of German descent and her father was a pretty bad guy overall. And there are a lot of Germans here in São Paolo region I mean they even have their own newspaper here printed in German.
Just thought i'd add local perspective to this please let me know if you all have any discussions.Wiki brah 20:16, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
- I find it rather shocking that anyone knowing who he was failed to report him to the authorities. This is a very deep shame on the people of Embu.
WHERE DID YOU FIND YOUR INFORMATION REGARDING MENGELE'S DAUGHTER???
It was from certain letters seized in Brazil in 1985. Then rediscovered amongst files held in Sao Paolo in 2004.
Death
What exactly killed this guy? It said in the link that he died an accidental death, but does anyone know what specifically killed him?
- Article states that he died from a stroke while swimming (he ended up drowning). Flyerhell 09:52, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
- Does anyone know what evidence there is for the fact he actually had a stroke? Was a full autopsy done? Who conducted it? Etc etc... I'm just wondering because given who we are talking about, it wouldn't seem surprising if he was murdered/extrajudicially executed. We would probably never know since one would expect even if a full autotopsy were done, there is a good chance they weren't looking for drugs that could have been used to induce a stroke for example and other shortcomings not uncommong when a murder is completely not expected Nil Einne 13:11, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Regarding Mengele's alleged daughter
The article contains the following claim: "...Mengele has a daughter born to an Australian woman of German lineage after a liaison between the two when the woman, aged 23, visited the German Colony Colonia Independencia in Paraguay in mid-1960 along with her mother and brother..." What is the specific source for this claim? Is it a reliable source? Has it been verified? Is this reliable information? It is really necessary to supply a reference on this point. I have never read any such claim about Mengele in any other biography. Unsubstantiated internet gossip (of which there is plenty in this regard)can't be represented as fact.
'In 1939, Mengele married his first wife, Sofie Shoinbaeum-Edelstein, from which union issued a single offspring, Rebecca ("Becky") Edelstein who resides to this day in Los Angeles.' ... can somebody clarify this? Was it not Irene Schoenbein who he married in 1939?
Mengele - A"Nazi Leader"?
Can Mengele be accurately categorized as a "Nazi leader"? He wasn't exactly part of the core leadership of the Nazi state. -Kingsbury 20:29, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
i agree, mengele was not a Nazi leader, war criminal might be more helpful categorytrueblood 21:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Personally selected over 400000 ...
I don't think this is phrased correctly. It sounds a bit like he personally chose, one by one, 400,000 individuals in 21 months. Surely he must have chosen certain critera, or selected blocks of individuals, for otherwise choosing people to die 12 hours a day for 21 months of about 30 days (i.e. 400 000 / (21 * 30 * 12) = 53) he would have been choosing one person a minute 7 days a week for nearly two years. I don't have particular historical knowledge of this evil man. Could someone correct this? i.e., explain the selection process very briefly, or change it to "supervised" or "was ultimately responsible for ...". Sorry to be picky about such an issue, but any engineer reading that statement immediately reaches for his trusty HP calculator to see if it is reasonable.
What does the word "selected" mean in this context?
Mengele and the selection of 400,000
Mengele alone did not select 400,000 victims for the gas chambers. The following civilian and SS doctors also served at Auschwitz with Mengele and are known to have, or were likely to have participated in selections (with the exception of Munch and Helmut Wirths: Dr Carl Clauberg Dr Arnold Dohmen SS Hauptsturmführer Dr Friedrich - Karl Entress Dr Kurt Gutzeit SS Hauptsturmführer Dr Willy Jobst SS Obersturmführer Dr Bruno Kitt SS Hauptsturmführer Dr Fritz Klein SS Untersturmführer Dr Hans - Wilhelm König SS Hauptsturmführer Dr Eduard Krebsbach SS Untersturmführer Dr Johannes Kremer SS Obersturmführer Dr Franz Lucas Female SS Oberaufseherinen Dr Maria Mandel SS Hauptsturmführer Dr Josef Mengele SS Obersturmführer Dr Hans Munch SS Obersturmführer Dr Werner Rohde SS Sturmbannführer Dr Horst Schumann SS Obersturmführer Dr Horst Thilo SS Hauptsturmführer Dr Alfred Trzebinski SS Hauptsturmführer Dr Helmuth Vetter SS Hauptsturmführer Dr Eduard Wirths Dr Helmut Wirths
I read about everything is about WWII i can get my hands on, esspecially what happend to the nazi war criminals, and i must say, this is the first time i see somebody wants not to be omitted the qualities of J. Mengele! i find this simplly outrageous! however, i am not surprised. if only after e few years after the ending of the war, people not only didn't care anymore what happend to those horrible people who one way or another managed to escape Germany and lived a nice, simple life in some warm, most likely comunist cuntry, but also started to think and to persuade others tahat the nazi atrocities were...exagerated! and the poor nazi 'war heroes' were being thought at as if they were evil, or criminals... if this things were happening after only 7-10 years after the war, what can we espect today, after more than 50 years?
i can't understand how the 'good side' of this vicious murderers can even come in question! i don't know who wrote the first comment here, but you should understand that thise ...people (if we can call them so) killed millions of people, only because they were not germans, or because they were jews, gipseys, hungarian, pole, czech, etc. mengele&co choosed what they wnted to do in their lives, they choosed to be nazi and they choosed to kill inocent people! you sy we should not 'omit' Mengele's intelligence; what intellgence?? IS his passionate belief in the superiority of the scandinavians? How can an intelligent human being belive that the other nations must be eliminated? sombody here said he was paid off by the Allies for his... research... do you know what he was doing in Auschwitz? His main goal was that of obteining on artificial ways blond and blue-eyed children.he was the one who in 1944 decided who among the thousands of hungarians from Auschwitz would die and who waould live. As far as i know, he especially hated the gipseys -perhaps because he looked like one- and he masacrated them.
my deepest sorrow concerning mengele's life -exept the fact that he had one in the first place- is that he was not found and that he died as a free man. i like to thik it's true that he became more an more obsessed of his hunters and even paranoid in his late years. i also hope he had a miserable life in South America...
i'd like to conclude with annother hope: that we will no longer foerget history's role, that of constantly remembering us what truly happend. we must not ever alloud us to forget... we must allways remember!!!
- Firstly you're responding to the wrong section, you should respond to the right section so people know what you're talking about. Secondly, please learn to format your message properly. The way you've formatted it makes it very difficult to read.
- Okay in response to what you're saying well, firstly, while I didn't write the early message, I agree with it more then I agree with you. Whether you like it or not, most of the people reponsible for the atrocities are not one dimensional villans who are a manifestation of pure evil as some people like to believe and that is common of villians on TV. Most of them are fairly complex characters. It is important to understand these complexities. For example Hitler's vegetarinism and the reasons he choose it are rather interesting and reveal this man commonly seen as the ultimate manisetation of pure evil is not as simple as many seem to like to believe. Censoring or hiding these complexities simply because you wish to think of these people as one dimensional evil people is unnacceptable and harmful. Only when we understand history can we avoid repeating it. Treating the people involved as evil villians full stop stops us from properly understanding history. IMHO, this is a great offense to the many many victims of the holocaust. They're deaths, as with their the deaths of many people all over the world can at least have some positives if we learn from their deaths. Sadly, for whatever reason, some people don't appear to want to learn anything. Nil Einne 13:36, 18 April 2006 (UTC) Hitler was in world war 6
Hitler’s diaries??
I have difficulties with the quotes in the article from Hitler’s diaries (Hitler came into direct telephonic contact with Mengele many times. In his diaries he reveals: "No man is closer to my heart at the moment than this obscure KZ Lager physician, Herr Gnädiger Doktor Josef Mengele, who embodies every ideal of German manhood I have ever imagined in my life. I feel that I owe my life to him. Certainly all German people do owe their lives to him until the war ends.").
As far as I know “Hitler’s Diaries” is a known hoax. This quote could not be genuine. Also, why would Hitler believe the he (and the German people) owes his life to a lowly concentration-camp doctor? That the two of them were responsible for monstrous crimes against humanity does not mean that they’ve met or developed a personal relationship. I’ve never heard any evidence other than this supposed diary entry that would suggest this relationship. Dr. Death was what they called him.
I agree, Hitler's diaries were a hoax, the quotation should be removed
some text identical to referenced link
A good deal of the article text is identical to the text in the article (linked!) at The Crime Library[2]. The Crime Library article has a named author[3] but Wikipedia is not listed in the bibliography[4]. TCL contains copyrighted material which is why I am noting it here. If this is an issue, someone may like to look into it.
Introduction
i think the introduction needs a rewrite. it should mention ss membership, his exact position in auschwitz, a sentence or two about the selection , his experiments and the ideology they were based on. his escape two south america and accidental death, name angel of death.
the whole sentence : " This demented effort caused him to work virtually twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, while he pursued his extensive experimentations and carried out his heavily burdensome duties as medical doctor" is just plain weird.
i find the attributed quote not helpful and neither the reference to hitler's 'big lie'. more important is his racist ideology that he based his pseudo scientific research on.
ah and his nickname was beppo, very charming that. trueblood 22:20, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
i deleted : -the quotation and the big lie, because it sounds somewhat unlikely. at least mengele probably believed in what he was doing, this sounds more like something from machiavelli. if someone wants it back, it needs to be referenced
second and third section
the second section is lenghty and contains unnecessary information (his disease) maybe his university career could be put in the third section under another headline that discribes his involvement with the nazi movement (memebership of stahlhelm,nsdap, ss) as well as his ideological development. the link between what it meant to study anthropology in nazi germany and with that tutor and his later twin research should be made clear. military service should be mentioned but the whole paragraph about his war bravery is somewhat misleading. trueblood 22:53, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
deleted quote from holocaust denial link
i just deleted for the second time a section that is out of place, misleading and from a sort of holocaust denial web page that for instance also runs it's own holocaust cartoon contest. check out the cartoons. please don't revert this deletion. trueblood 23:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC) "The German delousing chambers with only minor modifications -- and the large railroad tunnels without any modification at all -- would have served the purpose of mass murder perfectly well, but they were used only to keep people alive. The great killer was disease. The Degesch delousing chambers, the railroad delousing tunnels, and Zyklon B were essential to keeping disease, especially typhus, under control." a little quote from the same web page... trueblood 23:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
i deleted first and second chapter headings: because the chapter military career contains other information as well. also his military career is simply not relevant enough to be in need of an own paragraph. lots of people spend time in the army, needs mentioning okay but if it is through something else that they become famous, mentioning is enough. trueblood 10:29, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
auschwitz section
i wanted to clearify mengeles work in ausschwitz a little bit, particulary that his interest in twins was to be seen in context with his earlier academic work. took two sentences off, one about the nazis being desperate in the difficult days of '44, it seems there other people than nazis whose days were difficult and desperate. second one about mengele being a cult figure with himmler and hitler, which logically did not belong where it was and i wonder if it is a late echo of the deleted fake hitler diary quote trueblood 15:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC) some other changes i made: took out a sentence about the gypsies/ roma because it was twice in the article. Furthermore why mention the hyppocratic oath here, that would be true for any physician.
i also would like to take off the boiling water and sewing together thing unless someone can verify that. trueblood 14:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
Ovitz family
I took off some confused sounding sentences (and what seemed to me another try to twist some information to make it sound somewhat positive). According to wikipedia article Mengele did not found the Lilliput troupe, that's what they called themselves. trueblood 14:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
changes in after war section
i deleted:
-the bit about his daughter he never met : because it is just not relevant enough, all this schmu about his deep emotional pain through this loss. please let's be a little bit more tactful. it almost sounds like someone is trying to make fun of his victims.
- nazi leader category because he was not a nazi leader
-a quote and link from a ridiculous pro life site about mengele performing abortions after the war. trueblood 09:10, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
further pruning
i just looked at the german and the french article and like the some much better for being shorter. i'll try to prune some surplus bits.trueblood 20:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
more pruning
took of again this medal thing. the reference to court tv is not satisfactory. the whole article at the crime library is more about story telling then anything else. it contains several errors. to reinstall it it needs a better reference. trueblood 20:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
please do not just revert pruning
tried some more shortening of the auschwitz paragraph. i think an article does not necessarily benefit from length. we want all the relevant information. do we need to know that he spent six months in some gebirgsjaeger regiment or the name of the guy that found his body? trueblood 21:00, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
- This is an encyclopædia; it is intended to be information-rich!
—StationaryTraveller 22:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
yep, you are right, but you also want to make sure that the really relevant information reaches the reader and does not get lost in a sea of random bits of trivia. oh and look at this quote from the wiki article about encyclopedias.
"an encyclopedia treats each subject in more depth and conveys the most relevant accumulated knowledge on that subject or discipline" trueblood 19:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
In fiction
We could add mention of the Star Trek: Voyager episode Nothing Human, which featured a holographic simulation of the Cardassian Dr. Moset—an obvious parody of Josef Mengele.
—StationaryTraveller 22:47, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
please don't, see above
trueblood 11:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Please avoid renegade editing
Significant changes should be discussed back here, before being made. Also, try to make the Talk headings meaningful. "My changes" and such, don't tell us much, when we're looking to see if something has been (or is being) discussed.
—StationaryTraveller 23:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
noma in auschwitz section
i don't agree with the recent change, a racist he was, no need to cloud his intentions in pc language. trueblood 11:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
no withwash
the recent edit was just withwash, so i reverted it, i think it is important to state that mengele performed the selections in auschwitz. and why not call what he did crimes. trueblood 18:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)