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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by El.Bastardo (talk | contribs) at 17:57, 3 July 2006 (→[[:Category:Newsweek Top 1200 Schools]]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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June 29

Category:Computer and video game character templates to Category:Computer and video game character infobox templates

This category is for infoboxes only, but the current name implies that it's also for navboxes and such. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 23:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename per nom. Its parent cat is Category:Computer and video game infobox templates. --Usgnus 23:31, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Flora and Fiona of Azerbaijan to Category:Biota of Azerbaijan

Was originally a speedy candidate. Most other countries use Biota instead of Flora and fauna. Usgnus 22:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Original nomination: Category:Flora and Fiona of Azerbaijan to Category:Flora and Fauna of Azerbaijan. Spelling. ProveIt (talk) 02:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I would also accept Provelt's nomination, but with a lowercase "f" in "fauna", that is, Category:Flora and fauna of Azerbaijan. --Usgnus 22:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

United States city demonyms

Consistency with all the U.S. states and cities [e.g. for Category:Queensites, the parent category is "People from New York" not "New Yorkers". North Carolina is "People from North Carolina" not "North Carolinians", and et cetera. Arual 22:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I also suggest merging Category:People from Chandler, Arizona to this category since Chandler is a suburb of Phoenix. Arual 21:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

European royalty

There are three subcategories which do not follow the style used for the other 17 categories (15 national + parent + stubs).

Category:Clergy in Poland

I replaced it with Category:Polish clergy, which is how the other categories are named.

Category:Legendary rulers of Poland

Replaced by Category:Legendary Polish monarchs, which fits better in categories Category:Legendary Polish people and Category:Polish monarchs.

Category:Spanish-British people

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was speedy deleted as repost. In future, just slap a {{db-repost}} on anything like this. Kimchi.sg 03:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete please - this is about the fourth time that User:Raymond_Cruise has put this up; it was last agreed to be deleted only a few days ago (see copy discussion below). Can someone also slap Raymond's wrist please and tell him to stop it.--Smerus 19:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

Category:Reality television stars to Category:Reality television participants

There is no need for two similar categories. Also, "stars" is a very POV term, so it should be merged into Category:Reality television participants and deleted as should Category:Reality show finalists (see below). --Musicpvm 19:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Television re-imagined

Shows which have been remade in a more modern style. Interesting idea, but probably not a useful category. -- ProveIt (talk) 17:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Newsweek Top 1200 Schools

This is another "Top X" list from another magazine, generated by a another proprietary formula which provides little value to the end user in relating them to each other. What's more, with 1200 listings which will shift periodically, this presents a far greater maintenance challenge than the Top 20s and Top 100s we often come across. -choster 17:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Reality show finalists

From the context of creation, it looks like 'finalists' means 'coming in second', which I don't think is a useful category. Thre are already categories for many different reality shows, and a all-encompassing category (of all Idol series contestants) doesn't add anything. However, if it's decided to make this an all encompassing category, then maybe Category:Reality show contestants would be a better name. ArglebargleIV 13:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Idol series finalists

From the context of creation, it looks like 'finalists' means 'coming in second', which I don't think is a useful category. Thre are already categories for each different Idol series, and a all-encompassing category (of all Idol series contestants) doesn't add anything. However, if it's decided to make this an all encompassing category, then maybe Category:Idol series contestants would be a better name. ArglebargleIV 13:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Advocates of traditional British counties to Category:Wikipedians who advocate traditional British counties

Wikipedian-specific category Tangotango 11:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - used by the County Watch vandals to rig votes. --Mais oui! 19:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Accusing six editors of vote rigging is a strong allegation - how about some strong evidence to back it up? In fact, any evidence at all? Or any evidence these users are actually members of County Watch, rather than people who identify with some of their goals? This is a category of little usefulness, but as far as I can see, User:Jmb, User:Bayerischermann and User:Modest Genius have been involved in no related votes. If you have any proof, this is a serious matter and you should take it to its proper forum at AN/I. Unevidenced ad hominem arguments, however, are not valid criteria for deletion. Aquilina 01:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think the comment relates to instances where users of this category have circumvented certain violations (namely WP:3RR) via means of a system of reverts, due to the awareness that each other exist, rather than it's use for vote rigging. I could be wrong however, and evidence of vote rigging may or may not be produced. Jhamez84 19:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - and rename per nom. Lancsalot 20:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete – per Mais oui! I've noticed that this is a very contentious issue here on WP, and the source of numerous edit wars. ×Meegs 15:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete - as per above. Jhamez84 22:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional delete - but as part of this CfD discussion. This template is no different to any of the others at Category:Wikipedians_by_politics, the deletion of which is being debated en masse at the aforementioned page. This category should sink or swim according to that decision. Aquilina 01:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - if this category is to stay, it should be renamed as per nom, as it is a category of users, not articles, regardless of anyone's views on the editors in question or what they advocate. That said, I'm not convinced that having this category is a good idea. Users who oppose the use of traditional counties will probably set up their own rival category, and the relative sizes of the two will be used, not for "vote-rigging" as such, but for claiming consensus in related discussions, if consensus in a particular discussion is going the other way. --RFBailey 07:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and rename. Take your prejudices elsewhere. Owain (talk) 13:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and rename. Sorry I missed the obvious "Wikipedians who..." convention when I created it. Yorkshire Phoenix 07:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete A userbox is sufficient to allow people to note their interests, especially as the category appears to be relevant to just 6 wikipedians. or 4 if you take into account this comment from Yorkshire Phoenix on the category Talk page:-

What can we do about this banned User:Irate showing up with a new IP address every couple of days to vandalise our own user pages, categories, contributions, etc (apart from the obvious 12 reverts the 4 of us can use each 24 hours)? Yorkshire Phoenix 10:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

(personal login reserved to reduce vandalism to userpage) 82.30.72.134 08:21, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not unless he lives in Huddersfield 'hudd.cable.ntl.com.' and Category:Wikipedians in Scotland says he does nay.--87.75.130.154 14:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Lancsalot but you are wrong. I would never claim to be a Scot, nor have I any knowledge of the other languages that he seems to be proficient in, having just used your link to see his user page. I have only two language skills:- the Queens English and a strong Yorkshire dialect. It seems you have shown your colours yet again! 82.30.72.134 14:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That still doesn't make 82.30. whatever a registered user with any right to vote. Yorkshire Phoenix 15:01, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Very well. But forgive me for being suspicious when an unregistered user with no previous history turns up to take part in a vote. Lancsalot 15:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to be operating under a delusion the admin who closes the vote only has to count valid arguments. Being a registered user is not a requirment or at least did not use to be.--87.75.130.154 15:31, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No but being a legit user clearly is. Otherwise people would be using multiple sockpuppets to stack votes. And the only user I have come across who vandalises userpages is you! You also have no respect for consensus which is why you were banned. Lancsalot 15:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nope it is the argument that counts. I haven't vandlized you user page. I have added information. Information which you seem eager to prereserve, by Voting for the presevation of this cat.--87.75.130.154 17:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: 87.75.xxx.xxx is one of the favoured IP ranges of the banned User:Irate; the admin who has to sort out this mess should bear that in mind. Also, perhaps 82.30.72.134 could identify him/herself to stop any more accusations. --RFBailey 16:36, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete: Not because I have a point of view one way or the other on the legitimacy or otherwise of traditional counties, but because of the trouble having this category can be, and in fact already has been, caused. The above discussion/arguing demonstrates my point. --RFBailey 16:36, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Member of Punjab assembly to Category:Members of the Provincial Assembly of the Punjab

Disambiguate between the legislatures of Punjab State (India) and Punjab Province (Pakistan). And pluralise. --Mereda 10:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

* Original nom was to "...of Provincial assembly of..."; hope your rename vote still counts. Please amend with my apologies if not. Regards, David Kernow 00:52, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I'd support David Kernow's tweak. --Mereda 15:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Have tweaked nom accordingly. Regards, David 00:52, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Sidekicks to Category:Fictional sidekicks

All of these characters are fictional sidekicks, but there are real-world sidekicks (like Ed McMahon on the Tonight Show, for example). - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 05:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:MCs to Category:Rappers

The two terms encompass the same group of musicians, so Category:MCs should be merged and deleted. --Musicpvm 04:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Orthodox educational institutions to Category:Orthodox Jewish educational institutions

Very important specificity required here because in the past confusion has arisen between some sub-categories of Category:Orthodox Judaism and Category:Eastern Orthodoxy of Christianity. IZAK 04:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Orthodox Jews to Category:Notable Orthodox Jews Category:Jews identified as Orthodox

  • Note: Recognizing that categories should be consistent, based on recommendations below, I have reworded the suggested name for the new category. Thank you, IZAK 00:23, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Option one: Rename: This option is "the lesser of two evils" (see option two below): There are already similar sounding categories as Category:Black Jews; Category:Converts to Judaism (and someone just created a sub-category to that Category:Converts to Orthodox Judaism); Category:Mizrahi Jews. To avoid any misunderstandings that any Jews claiming to be, or allegedly belonging to, Orthodox Judaism might or could get themsleves listed/categorized here, this category needs to specify that to be in it, that person needs to meet the Orthodox Judaism criteria as described in Who is a Jew? and hence by default meet Category:Wikipedia notability criteria, especially Wikipedia:Notability (people) (as further examples, see also Wikipedia:Notability (academics) and Wikipedia:Notability (doctors).) IZAK 04:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Option two: Delete: Because Jews are Jews, it is only from the POV of the denominations or ideologies such as Orthodox Judaism or Conservative Judaism or Reform Judaism that create an impression (which may paradoxically be both true and false) that there are different "types" of Jews. This is very tricky because while Jews have genuine differences based on ethnicity, such as between Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardi Jews (and it would be a nightmare to create categories for those) to now have "categories" of individuals not noted for anything other than being born, having been, or becoming "Orthodox" by denomination or ideology creates a huge problem. This means there will now also have to be Category:Conservative Jews; Category:Reform Jews; Category:Unaffiliated Jews; Category:Secular Jews; Category:Atheist Jews; Category:Communist Jews etc, etc ad nauseam. To create a trend for categories for all types of people by denominations they are deemed to follow could lead to speculation not based on fact (how do we know or judge if a politician or businessman is truly an "Orthodox Jew"?) and that would lead to wild splintering, probable chaos and sure-fire Snowballing WP:SNOWBALL. IZAK 04:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Rename and if not Delete for above reasons. IZAK 04:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, if kept, do not rename as words like "notable" or "famous" should be avoided in category names. If someone has an article at Wikipedia, they are already somewhat notable. "Notable" could be added to the beginning of almost every category, but it is unnecessary. --Musicpvm 04:20, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Musicpvm: There are exceptions and I was trying to be precise according to Wikipedia's own terminology. We already have Category:Prominent Lubavitchers (note the word "Prominent"). I also looked around and found that your "rule" is not always applied: See Category:Famous patients (note the word "Famous") and Category:Important people in rail transport (note the word "Important"). Thanks, IZAK 05:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • I understand what you mean, but I think all the categories you mentioned should be renamed. If "notable" is added to the beginning of this category name, I don't see why it shouldn't be added to the beginning of other categories which categorize people by religion as well. Now that you have added a second option, I will change by vote to a comment though. --Musicpvm 05:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Musicpvm: This is not an easy call, as you can tell, and let's see what others add to this discussion. But I do appreciate your thoughtfulness. IZAK 07:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Those should be renamed. Wikipedia is full of bad practice and it doesn't all get dealt with as fast as it should. The existent of those categories lends no more justification to the current proposal than the fact that Wikipedia is fully of spelling mistakes would to a proposal to deliberately insert some new spelling mistakes. Osomec 17:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete (first choice) or rename (my lesser of two evils) - I think these lists of Jews is misplaced to begin with; also it's arguably meaningless. (Orthodox) Judaism doesn't differentiate among types of Jews - Orthodoxy is a category of Jewish communities. --Leifern 05:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose any change - Hi IZAK, I feel you are not approaching this issue with the attitude it deserves. By definition, an article can only be accepted on wikipedia if it's notable - so by the time a category is created, that issue should be non-existent. If you're worried about notability, I suggest you go a stage back and verify each article individually for their importance and worth. As User:musicpvm succinctly pointed out, "If someone has an article at Wikipedia, they are already somewhat notable. "Notable" could be added to the beginning of almost every category, but it is unnecessary."
As the person who placed most of the current occupiers of that category, I can state with 100% confidence that they all "meet the Orthodox Judaism criteria as described in Who is a Jew?" - although in case you weren't aware, wikipedia has absolutely no say in defining Jews.
Secondly, as to your super-simplistic and misleading treatment of denominations in Judaism: it is not only "from the POV of the denominations or ideologies such as Orthodox Judaism" that creates an impression of who their adherents are; rather, these adherents are self-admitted and recognised as being Orthodox. I fail to spot any paradox of any sort.
If you had studied the occupants of the category you will have noticed they were not just "born... been, or becoming "Orthodox" - but all are ORTHODOX AT THE PRESENT TIME. Finally, IZAK, please don't panic-monger by invoking meaningless things such as Wikipedia:Snowball clause, which as that pages admits - is only a view and NOT OFFICIAL wikipedia policy. Many thanks, Nesher
  • PS: If there exists a category Category:Orthodox Jewish Wikipedians - which includes administrators - then it is entirely contradictory to delete this category -- Nesher
    • Nesher: You are opening a pandora's box here and you don't even know it! Do you think that you are the first one to notice that no "Category:Orthodox Jews" has been around for over two years -- when other more experienced editors have been avoiding creating a category that is bound to breed controversy? It is one thing to focus-in on rabbis and it is simple and non-controversial to label/categorize them 99.99% of the time based on their writings and the positions they have held, but it is quite another thing to label/categorize ordinary Jews not known for contributing anything to Orthodox Judaism in a scholarly way. Another serious issue you tend to gloss over is what's going to happen when someone decides that all the notables in Category:Mishnah rabbis, Category:Talmud rabbis, Category:Middle Ages rabbis justly deserve to be included in Category:Orthodox Jews and then someone else will claim that, hey, those sages are not the preserve of the Orthodox alone and are also meant to be in a Category:Reform Jews and Category:Conservative Jews? How about if someone decides to add Category:Jesus to Category:Orthodox Jews, would they be wrong and how would you deal with that? These are just a few of the problems you have created by starting this category. Just because the "present occupants" of the category are few, does not mean that more problems will not arise as more names and categories may be added. Think before you leap. IZAK 00:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • Nesher: By the way, from the way you say "wikipedia has absolutely no say in defining Jews" shows that you have still not grasped what Wikipedia is about! Wikipedia is not concerned with "defining Jews" in any way (Wikipedia is not a Beth Din and it is most definitely NOT a yeshiva!), Wikipedia is a general online Internet (basically very secular) encyclopedia that must attempt to somehow or other convey all the views out there, even those we disagree with personally, in a NPOV fashion, that's it! This is a very difficult notion to grasp and digest and it is often misunderstood by many people, and often people who are devoutly religious cannot function in such an open and free environment, you need to have some familiarity with "the outside world." Why do you think it's now urgent to categorize the world's famous Jews according to their religious beliefs?, or lack thereof, because this is now what you have opened the door to. Or did you not consider the fact that once you create a category that touches on a very delicate subject-matter it may have a snowballing-effect (that is what is meant by "WP:SNOWBALL" -- why do you think I was talking about "policies" when I was talking logic?) as others then, (following your example), will create similar-sounding categories, such as Category:Atheist Jews for Atheist Jews or Category:Christian Jews for Category:Jews who converted to Christianity and who knows what else -- that in all probability will all get nominated for deletion because of the chaos and incoherence that such categories will engender! Finally, just because the occupants of the category now were selected by you, and I know you can identify Orthodox Jews, the problem is that when you are not around it cannot be predicted how this category will be populated and connected by less discriminating, or even manipulative future editors. IZAK 04:58, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, oppose rename, stop this nonsense about POV. Someone is an Orthdox Jew if and only if they claim to be an Orthodox Jew. Orthodoxy is a religion; it has a birthright but one can also remove oneself through apostasy.--M@rēino 14:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are no circumstances in which qualifiers like "notable" and "famous" are acceptable in category names. Osomec 17:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nominator's Option 2. Splintering people into so many categories will lead to all sorts of new categories, and will the casual Wikipedia reader think to look under any of them? Yoninah 19:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral Keep (first choice). Delete (second choice). Do not rename to include "Notable". --Usgnus 23:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)--Usgnus 15:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC) --Usgnus 17:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete (first choice), Rename (second choice), but then would insist on creating Category:Jews identified as Reform and category:Jews identified as Reconstructionist. And as we already have Atheist Jew, I'm pretty sure Category:Atheist Jews cannot be far behind! --William Allen Simpson 04:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete (first choice) or Rename (second choice) to Category:Jews identified as Orthodox. – Hillel 15:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - all the articles in this category are already on wikipedia, and without this grouping, many of them have no Jewish link whatsoever in their articles. Hence, this is really a home for many of these articles and an anchor to a common theme that is/was very important in their lives; namely, Orthodox Judaism. If you don't believe me, I ask you where articles such as Meshulam Gross, Robert Aumann, Mayer Amschel Rothschild and Dov Hikind would go. Many of these people deserve to be remembered and recognised where they stand out from their peers - as the minority that tenaciously clung to Orthodox Judaism in testing times. Finally, please explain how the uncontested Category:Orthodox Jewish Wikipedians poses no contradictions to the possible deletion of this category. -- Nesher 16:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename and if not Delete per IZAK. 172 | Talk 21:42, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom#2. Tomertalk 00:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I think we should keep things the old way in this case. I don't see any problem in a category of Orthodox Jews. If someone is shomer shabbos, shomer kashrus, davens in a shul with a mechitzah and fasts on the 10th of Teves - then just what could be the problem in classifying him as Orthodox? --Daniel575 19:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Polish music festivals and competitions

Replaced by two categories, Category:Polish music festivals and Category:Polish music competitions, which are more in line with the categorization scheme.

Category:United States Senators by category

Delete -- of course, these are "by category", this is a category! No articles. Move the three categories up to Category:United States Senators --William Allen Simpson 03:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Female United States Senators to Category:Female United States senators

Incorrect capital. Chicheley 20:27, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Neighborhoods by country

Category:Neighborhoods is a direct sub-cat of Category:Cities. As such, I believe Category:Cities by country and Category:Neighbourhoods by country should have the same naming convention as they are both permanently located man-made entities. As per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (categories)#Man-made objects, "in country" is used for Cities. The following Neighbourhood by country categories are proposed to match this naming convention:

--Kurieeto 03:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:IIT to Category:Indian Institutes of Technology

Expand, please ... -- ProveIt (talk) 02:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:England basketball

Not a category; possible copyvio?, if not it should be wikified as an article. -- ProveIt (talk) 02:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Category:NASDAQ companies' headquarters

This category is supposed to list all HQ cities of any company listed on NASDAQ. This seems like useless cruft, since it is unlikely anyone would want to navigate entries by that manner. It would eventually just up simply listing most all major cities in the U.S. Bovineone 02:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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