Talk:Five-tool player

Barry Bonds doesn't count. He can't run nearly as well as any of the other player mentioned here.

Suzuki and Jeter do not possess POWER. TrulyTory 02:06, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the current phenom David Wright. I am considering removing many names. I removed Wright because he is not an all-star. I think the minimum standard should be 2 all-star games. If I had created the page myself I would have limited the list to HOFers and players exceeding HOF standards by at least 2 of the 4 www.baseball-reference.com scales. I am considering some such limit. Please advise.

I think that might be a little harsh. However, certainly removal of players who have not been proven over time (such as Wright) is fine. Using the All-star election as a measuring stick is not as prudent as it sounds, which can be seen in the way the 2006 all-star voting is going so far. Many players are unjustly elected, as many others are snubbed.

This is an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia should have one or two examples. Limiting the list to Mays and Bonds or Mays only would be sufficient in truth. Look at the list now and when your girlfriend looks up 5 tool player on the internet so she can talk to you about something she will at least be guided towards elite all around players. Note that I did not really check the pre war players for all around skills if they were an all-star. Probably, a year or two from now someone will try to put Pujols and Vlad Guerrero back on the list. A player with less than 6 steals/ year is not a 5 tool player no matter how good his other tools are. In fact, I don't know of career first basemen who are considered five tool player. This does not mean Pujols is not the best player in the game. He could be the best player in the game, the MVP, a sure fire HOFer and yet not be a 4 or a 5 tool player. I believe Pujols is the best player in the game, yet only a 3 tool player. Vlad may rightly make the list in a few years (based on the current standards).TonyTheTiger

P.S. This list should be much shorter. People are confused about popular, elite players and 5 tool players. I had to look up the fact that Mike Schmidt once stole 29 bases and that Dave Parker twice stole 20. I will revisit this list if no one else wants to take a stand. Also, don't look at a gimpy 40something Bonds and say he can't run. He is tied for 30th all-time in SB's. Also, running the bases is more than stealing them. Runs scored is underrated. This statement is made with a Paul Molitor in mind.TonyTheTiger

beltran

Carlos beltran is the most perfect example of a five tool player. How is he not listed, seriously?

See above "If I had created the page myself I would have limited the list to HOFers and players exceeding HOF standards by at least 2 of the 4 www.baseball-reference.com scales." Until he exceeds at least 2 of the 4 HOF Standards above I would oppose his inclusion. TonyTheTiger 17:15, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thats not fair, seriously. A five-tool player is just just an athelete who incorporates each of the five tools into his game, period. Carlos Beltran is the quintessential five tooler.

Citation Needed?

I support the need for validation of facts, but tagging every player (including Willie Mays !) with CN is ridiculous. Willie Mays is the pentultimate FTP and everyone knows in Baseball knows this. If we are going to manage the article this way, then maybe the whole thing should be deleted. TrulyTory 13:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was tempted to run this article through an AfD, but the main problem is WP:NPOV and possibly WP:OR if this article is not supported by citation. If you'd prefer it go that way, anyone can feel free to start up the AfD. Erechtheus 23:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is not an appropriate AfD. It is an important baseball topic. The list should really be about 3 or 4 players, but it is hard to make an objective statistical cutoff. The list is truly Mays, Bonds, & Dawson. After that any postwar player is truly a stretch, IMHO. There are players who for brief periods of time in their careers had 5 tools, but for extensive display of these skills the list should be limited. However, I can not really think of a good way to do it since defensive stats are not easy to track down on the web. Furthermore, people will put a guy on the list if he stole 20 bases once or hit 20 homers once and are a HOFer. However, requiring a citation is overburdoning. Let people have their fun adding people who are hard to contest until we agree on a statistical method. TonyTheTiger 17:22, 31 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]