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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Paul August (talk | contribs) at 22:24, 18 October 2004 (adding "Matthew Shepard in selected anniversaries"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Village Pump - Miscellaneous archive

Discussions older than 7 days (date of last made comment) are moved here. These dicussions will be kept archived for 7 more days. During this period the discussion can be moved to a relevant talk page if appropriate. After 7 days the discussion will be permanently removed.

Matthew Shepard in selected anniversaries

Re: Template:October 6 selected anniversaries, today is the anniversary of the attack on Matthew Shepard. I'm worried that our write-up is needlessly wordy and sensational. It reads "1998 - Gay-bashing & Hate crimes: University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard was viciously and fatally attacked for being gay." I think there is one too many adverbs and one too many categories. We should remove either "gay-bashing" or "hate crimes," and also remove the sensational word "viciously." Rhobite 02:54, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)

Since it only gets a day of coverage and I'm going to bed, I'm going to go ahead and make these edits. This is just a style nitpick, please nobody accuse me of homophobia until I've had my morning coffee. Rhobite 04:51, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
I changed the wording to "murdered" because "fatally attacked" just sounded REALLY weird. Mike H 06:59, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
He died on that 12th so murdered is flat out wrong. Click, click ; fixed. --mav 07:31, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Disambiguating GFDL

moved to Talk:GFDL

Wikifun

we should create a free contest for users like a scavenger hunt, quiz or something along those lines. even combining them to create wikilympics perhaps! there doesn't have to be prizes the real reward is just plain old fun. who wants to do it we should vote.

Don't vote - just do it on a subpage and invite people. Mark Richards 23:40, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Lyndon LaRouche founded Wikipedia

Oy, Anyway, this is being discussed in blogoland on BoingBoing Xeni is looking for comments from Wikipedia. I know there was some historical problem with the LaRouche article and things but I don't know the details. Someone should probably email her. They also get info from the suggestion link pretty fast. - [[User:Cohesion|cohesion ☎]] 18:44, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

Sicne I began visiting Wikipedia, I've noticed what seemed to me bias against the government in several articles related to Malaysia, notably Mahathir bin Mohamad and Anwar Ibrahim. At first I thought it was just me, but a discussion on the relevant Talk pages recently has revealed that others seem to think so too; however, to date, little has been accomplished. To me, the article on Mahathir gets all the facts right, but twists them into making it appear like he was almost as bad as Hitler; Anwar's article also got the facts right, but omitted other significant contextual facts, leading again to a false impression. Recently, concerns of bias have appeared on a few other articles: Bumiputra and Malaysian New Economic Policy. Can a non-Malaysian please voice his/her opinion(s) of these articles' (N)POVness? I tried WP:RFC a couple of times already, but it's absolutely frustrating over there. Johnleemk | Talk 14:51, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Could use help please!!!

-> Wikipedia:Reference desk#Supermarket headquarters in Spain [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 16:16, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

"Somewhat of a..."

Moved to Wikipedia_talk:Manual of Style#"Somewhat of a...". Reuben 18:33, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Sanity check

Before I make a faux pas on VfD, are things like SNES Screenshot Gallery and Sega Master System Screenshot Gallery generally considered encyclopedic enuf to be included? Niteowlneils 04:22, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yes, encyclopedias do have galleries and Wikipedia has many of them. Most of the video game galleries seem to have been created by Tyan23, so you may want to discuss things with him. [[User:Norm|Norm]] 12:37, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I was trying to edit Nautical, but find that clicking on it goes automatically to Wiktionary. How do I edit this page to add content? Thanks, Mark Richards 15:49, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Go to the edit page for any other article, and replace the title in the URL with the redirect you want to edit. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Nautical&action=edit Goplat 18:00, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I've turned it into a "soft redirect". It now just links to Wiktionary rather than going to it. [[User:Norm|Norm]] 20:23, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Clusty search engine for Wikipedia

I saw a blurb about a new search engine on Slashdot. It included an encyclopaedia search, and I immediately suspected that they were reusing Wikipedia material. They were, but not like most other reusers. Instead, they have simply indexed the database in a clever way, and provide a very smart search that clusters search results in categories. Try for example: a search for "cat". It identifies categories such as "cartoon", "breed", "team/league" etc. The actual search result items are links directly to the master Wikipedia server, so there are no issues with their database being out of date. — David Remahl 14:17, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Cool! Mark Richards 15:14, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Perhaps I don't understand exactly what this means technically, but if "The actual search result items are links directly to the master Wikipedia server" does that mean they are making massive hits on our site? -- Jmabel 02:14, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
I should have expressed myself more clearly...The database the results are based on may not be _entirely_ up-to-date, but seems to be updated at least daily. When a user searches, the links to the articles go to en.wikipedia.org. So yes, they're drawing traffic / hits to Wikipedia, which is a good thing (btw, did you see that Wikipedia has broken 300 in Alexa rank the last few days?). — David Remahl 02:24, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

FAC protected?

Looks like User:Raul654 has locked the wp:fac page. There's an {inuse} tag put at the top but that was hours ago and there's no mention of why it's still locked down. Any pending changes/problems I'm not aware of or did he just forget to unprotect it? violet/riga (t) 12:59, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Fixed by User:Lord Emsworth. violet/riga (t) 13:26, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

VP section colouring

Being bold, but hopefully not going too far, I've colouring the header section of this (misc) section of the VP. With the sections combined (as I tend to view it) it makes it difficult to scroll down and spot the change of section. With colours for each section (perhaps even colour-coded slightly) I reckon it looks a bit better. Sorry if anyone doesn't like it - it should be easy enough to change back. If it is liked it could then be done for the other sections. violet/riga (t) 09:41, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Incidentally, the village pump menu template doesn't seem to show, though it didn't before. Is this a limit to the number of inclusions or a mistake in the code somewhere? violet/riga (t) 09:46, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The first thing you said. MediaWiki allows the same template to be transcluded at most five times. (See: m:Help:Template#Multiple inclusion of the same template in a page.) HTH, • Benc • 10:43, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Looks fine. Incidentally, this is one comment perhaps appropriate for the Wikipedia talk:Village pump page. I still think we'd get a much more managable no./distribution of comments if we scrapped the miscellaneous section and added one or two more clearly defined headings. zoney ♣ talk 23:53, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia taboos?

Why is certain information taboo on Wikipedia? Shouldn't Wikipedia strive to be as complete as possible? I am specifically referring to things like the name of Kobe Bryant's accuser and the details of secret ceremonies. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 00:23, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

In such cases as this, it's not that we can't find out, especially in the former case. Maybe it's to avoid unnecessary propagation of such information on other forks of Wikipedia? [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 06:07, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

The talk pages make it clear what issues are/were involved. There was even a vote with regard to the sports guy thing. Individual editors who care about those particular artices make decisions regarding them. If you have a problem with them, you should participate on the talk pages, and if you feel you aren't getting any where then you can recommend the page be sent to Peer Review, Clean Up, Requests for Comment, etc. I don't see the issues of these three articles you've brought up as being related. func(talk) 10:01, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Soylent Green conumdrum

Wikipedia's article on Soylent Green primarily discusses the 1963 film. However the most common use of the term 'Soylent Green' today is in reference to the fictional product which is the main reveal at the end of the film. As such the lead paragraph of the article should mention both the film and the product, but I can't think of a way to do that without violating the spoiler warning. -- Solipsist 18:32, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Like, don't you want to discuss this on the article's talk page? — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:15, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)
Possibly, but the problem isn't article specific. Its more about the spoiler tag and self reference. -- Solipsist 21:08, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Stick the spoiler tag at the very top. Or come to think of it, before the spoiler you can say just what you said here: "the most common use of the term 'Soylent Green' today is in reference to the fictional product which is the main reveal at the end of the film." -- Jmabel 22:01, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)
Doh! You're right. Sometimes just phrasing a question carefully can show the answer. -- Solipsist 16:25, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)


September 11, 2001 attacks

Someone moved this page (again) without discussion, leaving numerous double redirects. I would tried to return it but fear losing the edit histories. The undiscussed issue is whether it should be September 11, 2000, attacks or September 11, 2001 attacks. Rmhermen 17:18, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

Why would anyone want to call it "September 11, 2000, attacks"? It happened in 2001. Did you mean "September 11, 2001, attacks"? — Frecklefoot | Talk 18:31, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
Yes, of course, but I wonder why anyone would call it September 11, 2001, attacks. Rmhermen 22:03, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
It is interesting that the word "attacks" is attached to the article's title. The event is infamous for being most commonly referred to by only its date of occurance. In the U.S. especially, most people, including the national newscasters, often just say "9/11", ("nine, eleven"). Of course, this obviously wouldn't work in the U.K., where the typical day/month order is different. func(talk) 14:04, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
The day had a lot of other things going on that day. 9/11 and everything else redirect to the attacks article; the article is about the attacks, not the day. --Golbez 14:28, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
I bet there were a lot of other "attacks" on that day, too. Maybe we should call it September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City, USA and on the Pentagon in Washington DC and on an aircraft which crashed in Pennsylvania, the state which is located in the United States of America, Earth? anthony (see warning) 18:45, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Someone forgot to make that a redirect?! ;-) Jwrosenzweig 20:28, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Even though day/month and not month/day is standard in the UK, "9/11" is universally understood and often used on news broadcasts. In fact "11/9" is never used to refer to the events of that day. Just thought I'd mention it... -- Avaragado 20:27, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Same in Australia, where we use the British system of dates. 9/11 has conversationally come to mean September 11, even though 10/11/2001 means the 10th of November 2001 and 9/12/2001 would be 9th of December 2001. 9/11/2001 is probably ambiguous or context-dependent, but 11/9/2001 would be the 11th of September 2001, quite unambiguously. Such are the curious ways of language. Andrewa 01:15, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Ambiguity is why I advocate big-endian sort order: 2001/09/11 23:59:59:999 06:00 :) func(talk) 01:27, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Adopting any convention ends ambiguity. Adopting a big-endian sort order is just like adopting any other convention: it's not in itself unambiguous. - Nunh-huh 01:37, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I was just making a funny, of course, but it is less ambiguous. To the best of my knowledge, no nation or culture starts their dates off with the year, so when one encounters a date that begins with a 4 digit number, it is a near certainty that it is yyyy mm dd etc., and that it was put in that order for some computer- or sorting-related purpose. func(talk) 02:01, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Yes, it's a common convention - but it's a convention nonetheless. - Nunh-huh 02:52, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In answer to Rmhermen's question: I'm guessing that it's because some people feel that the commas in dates set the year into a subordinate clause, and need to be paired: "The events of Jan 1, 2000, caused etc etc." I use it like this but I wouldn't alter existing text, certainly not an article title. But, since it's come up, I'd vote for "Attacks of September 11, 2001". The existing title, with or without the comma, has too much similarity to "Mars Attacks!" in my mind... Sharkford 21:01, 2004 Sep 29 (UTC)
While I probably wouldn't use "The events of Jan 1, 2000, caused...", I, at least, understand it. I don't understand "The September 11, 2001, attacks...". Would you write "The USS Cole, bombing..." instead of the bombing of the USS Cole..."? Or does this only apply to dates? Rmhermen 23:14, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
I confess that I do not see why your second sentance would be less idiomatic than the first. "The Sept 11, 2001, attacks have resulted in ...". "2001" qualifies "Sept 11" and so is set apart by matched commas as a subordinate phrase. I do this with place names, too: The London, England, skyline is dominated by...". In fact, in the headline, omitting the second comma leads me to read it as a verb, as if nonsensically the year 2001 attacks us on Sept 11.
As I say, I commonly see dates (and place names) written with only one comma and so I understand that many folks do not see the year (or country etc) as a subordinate phrase. I do not propose to engage the argument, much less settle it; I hope only to clarify the terms.
But I'm only guessing that this is at the heart of the page moves. I would propose to avoid the issue altogether by naming the article "Attacks of September 11, 2001", which I think has a much more encyclopedic feel to it. Sharkford 15:39, 2004 Sep 30 (UTC)
That usage is completely unknown to me. Can anyone point out which style guides follow it? Rmhermen 15:59, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
A quick google search turns up: ["When the date falls at the beginning or in the middle of the sentence, add another comma after the year to separate it from the rest of the sentence."] [October 31, 1517, is one of...] [When a date that includes commas does not fall at the end of a sentence, place the comma after the date] [Write a comma after the year and the day when they are in the sentence. ["July 4, 1776, is regarded as..." (and "Never use only one comma between a subject and its verb.") and others. A single-comma style is advocated at Omit second commas from dates and place descriptions". Like the "last comma in a list" it may be regional. Sharkford 18:26, 2004 Sep 30 (UTC)
Were it not for the immediately recognisable subject, the phrase "September 11, 2001 attacks" actually could mean "September 11, 2001" as an entity attacked something. Attacks of September 11, 2001 is more proper. zoney ♣ talk 18:36, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Just call the page September 11, 2001. If people want to create a page about other events which happened on the date, we can put a disambig link at the top. anthony (see warning) 18:42, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Sharkford has a good explanation. To use just one comma divides the phrase in two parts. Grammatically speaking, it sets up "2001" as either the subect (the "attacker") or the modifier (attacks that numbered 2,001 OR attacks of the year 2001).
Setting off the year with commas makes the year modify "September 11," and the entire date modifies "attacks."
I don't see the Cole bombing as an appropriate analogy. Also, Rmhermen, I saw that on your page, the years in dates are set off with pairs of commas. :)
Maurreen 03:17, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Better places for this topic

I think better places for this discussion are either the article's talk page (if it's just about the title) or the style guide (if it's a more general issue). Maurreen 01:25, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In the article Tony Robbins, there is/was the following text:

"Controversial issues regarding Tony Robbins:
  • In 2001 Robbins was divorced from his wife Becky. This disturbed some who had read his books (one of which is dedicated to her) and listened to his cassette programs, since both liberally dispense advice on how to have a happy marriage relationship. Robbins has, however, advocated that if one is truly unable to be happy in a marriage, one ought to improve it - possibly by leaving.
  • Dreamlife.com, a company founded by Tony Robbins failed and went bankrupt. This obviously shocked some who depended on Robbins for business and investment advice."

I am not the author of this text; it is part of the earliest version given on the article's history page, dated May 29, 2003 with author Jpb1968; I do not know if that was its creation date, or if it goes back further still. The last sentence of the marriage topic was added more recently, again not by me.

This text was block-deleted by an anon on Sept. 22 and I reverted it back in. It was anon-block-deleted again this morning, Sept. 27, and I reverted it again. It was then immediately deleted again, this time by a new user, User:RRIESQ, who called it false and defamatory, and put this on my talk page:

"Mr. Gary D:
You are requested to contact the Law Office of Lavely & Singer PC (310-556-3051 x247) with regard to defamatory content on wikipedia that you repeatedly have restored, and therefore posted, after deletion by our office on behalf of our clients. If you do not respond, formal action shall be required. Thank you. Lavely & Singer P.C."

I suspect this may be part of the the new-found attention WP has gained from the AP article about it that was posted on Yahoo. I have verified that Lavely & Singer is really a law firm in Century City, a toney section of Los Angeles, with about seventeeen lawyers. I know WP is very sensitive about legal threats, so I'm kicking this upstairs for whatever you want to do with it. --Gary D 22:15, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

cc:Jimbo Wales' user page

Jimbo is aware of this. He's just been talking to the lawyer on the phone. Angela. 22:52, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
You are requested to contact the law office; they are requested to state why they blank sections of a page next time. Their move. --Golbez 05:10, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

Article split

What shuld be done with a page that should be split? Prosimian has grown to be more about Strepsirrhini. I'd like to split the article in two. Should I cut-and-paste the majority of the text to Strepsirrhini, even though that detaches the majority of the text from its history? Should I move the page itself and then cut-and-paste the smaller amount? - UtherSRG 07:05, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Your first option sounds most reasonable. Just include the name of the page you are moving from/to in your edit summary. —Mike 03:16, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

Help with user 12.151.135.2 and Boston opera company edits

User 12.151.135.2 has since Sep 27th, made several (in my view) Inappropriate edits to Grammy Award for Best Classical Performance, Operatic or Choral, Boston Lyric Opera, Opera Boston, Opera Company of Boston. I've reverted changes to Grammy Award for Best Classical Performance, Operatic or Choral (because the content added didn't pertain to the article) and to Boston Lyric Opera (because of POV). The edits to Opera Boston and Opera Company of Boston are more problematic, I think they contain useful (but probably POV) content, so I don't want to simply revert them, but I'm not competent to edit them. Can someone help out with these two articles? As for user 12.151.135.2, I don't think he or she is a vandal, just someone unfamiliar with Wikipedia standards and practices who could probably do with some friendly advice. Paul August 15:50, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

Ok now 12.151.135.2's edits are beginning to look more like vandalism. I've reverted Boston Lyric Opera twice and that user has again removed all content about the opera company. Paul August 21:45, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

I've just used-up my third revert on Boston Lyric Opera. Should I refer this to Wikipedia:Vandalism in Progress? Paul August 21:58, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)


Absolutely! There's no big need to sit and wait. If you see it happening, report it. - UtherSRG 03:10, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Vexatious and political use of VFD

While the deletion reform movement is still in stalemate, I'm more than a little worried about the increasingly political use of VFD to make political points and escalate edit wars. Does anyone have any bright ideas on stopping this? Mark Richards 17:42, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Good question. Practice wikilove. Attempt to follow existing policies even if they seem wrong, they often make more sense than you think. Relax. Enjoy all your editing including VfD, and take a Wikibreak anytime this gets too hard. Find some uncontroversial subject with a reasonable amount of work needed and return to it regularly. Intentionally visit controversial areas whenever you feel strong enough to help. Never take responsibility for anything you can't control. Pray for those who don't seem capable of any of the preceding if prayer is your thing.
Nothing will stop abuse of VfD, but these measures will IMO stop long-term escallation of it.
You'll notice I don't say anything above about fixing rules or procedures. IMO the worst rules will work with goodwill, and the best will fail without it. And as I said before, the rules aren't as bad as some think (although personally I would still like to make some improvements...!). Andrewa 21:05, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm relatively new here, and have spent some time working on fairly obscure topics. I couldn't find anything in the guidelines about how notable something has to be, and am honestly pretty disheartened. I know that my Stephen Bishop (cave explorer) page will get less than 400 Google hits, and feel pretty sure that someone is going to try to list it for deletion sooner or later. I thought that part of the joy of this site was being able to really dig deep into articles that hardly anyone would ever see, so that, if only one person is ever interested in who this person was, the information is there. I'm seriously thinking about stopping contributing because of the immense amount of energy that some people seem to be putting into tearing things down that, yes, are not mainstream, but are of interest to some. Intrigue 21:24, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I can't see why that article would be deleted; it's notable, it's very well written, and I've learned something from it thanks to you mentioning it. This is why I enjoy hitting Random sometimes, just to see all the unknown things already on Wikipedia. And it's now on my watchlist, so if anyone wants to delete it, they'll have to go through me. :) --Golbez 21:50, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
An obscure topic is not necessarily uncontroversial, as you have discovered. Work on obscure topics by all means, but my strong advice is still to find something uncontroversial to work on as well. People who work only on controversial articles don't often stay.
Reducing this sort of frustration was the whole reason for establishing the what's in, what's out page. There has also been a more recent attempt to establish a precedents page, which is a similar idea IMO. Sadly (to me) nobody has yet thought enough of either of them to include them in the VfD front matter, but it may still happen. The beauty of Wikipedia policies is that there are so many to choose from (;-> so WIWO was established to try to indicate actual practice not policy.
Anyway, a look at WIWO might give you some ideas for new articles that others think are in and which would interest you. Andrewa 01:45, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Take a look at what actually happens on VfD. Most of the articles that get listed get deleted, and most of them are deleted because they are very poor articles. I think the general disagreement between what might be called the "inclusionist" and "deletionist" factions is that inclusionists argue that keeping such articles does very little harm, and that they are seeds which others will expand into good articles; on the other hand, deleting them results in "biting the newbies." Deletionists judge differently. I would be astonished to see Stephen Bishop (cave explorer) listed for deletion, and stunned if it were actually delete as a result. It is not typical of the kind of page that lands on VfD. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 20:19, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I too would be astonished if an excellent article like Stephen Bishop (cave explorer) were ever nominated for VfD. For a minor historical personage, 400 Google hits is far, far more than sufficient. For many historical personages Google hits are not relevant at all. People know this. Generally the arguments on notability on VfD are about articles on people still living or on current events, not on the figures and events of the past (except when the article seems to be a hoax or there is some very strong POV involved or when it seems to be only genealogical vanity). There's a great difference between something being little-known but quite suitable for an encyclopedia article and something being non-notable or unencyclopedic. Jallan 21:27, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Split infinitive

...is currently today's featured article on the main page; also listed on featured article candidates and featured article removal candidates (see the talk page). Go figure (boldly, where no man/one has gone before).

(PS - this page is now 248k long, somewhat in excess of the 32k guideline - presumably some of it could be archived?) -- ALoan (Talk) 22:02, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Friends of Robert

Could someone who is not involved with circumcision and related articles please review recent contributions by Friends of Robert? In my opinion some of his comments to Theresa Knott and Acegikmo1 cross the line of what is acceptable behavior at Wikipedia. -- DanBlackham 06:51, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

My only involvement in this dispute was to involve theresa's views on Robert's RFC, and from what I can see here, there seems to be enough to warrant an RFC for further investigation. Hopefully this can be resolved amicably, as Friends of Robert seems to be slightly more cordial, but as obstinate as Robert, sadly. Johnleemk | Talk 13:14, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm 99% certain that friends of Robert is Robert Brookes. He slipped up almost from the word go, by using the same phrasing etc and he has continued to make the same slips as time has gone on.User:Jwrosenzweig is trying to talk to him on his talk page. Let's hope that he is sucsessful. Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 17:52, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Given his most recent comment to me, while I am continuing to attempt dialogue, I would not call myself optimistic that progress will be made. If Friends of Robert changes the way he chooses to talk to and about other editors, there is more hope: we shall see. Jwrosenzweig 22:52, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I have given up. I don't know if anyone was waiting to see what progress I coudl make, but if you were, I'd move on to whatever plan is next. Thanks, Jwrosenzweig 23:29, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)


Please note that he is now using the username Robert the Bruce Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 05:16, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've asked him if he is willing to go to mediation. Let's hope he agrees. Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 08:33, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

He's refused User talk:Robert the Bruce Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 05:41, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Robert Brookes, AKA Friends of Robert, Robert the Bruce, et cetera, now blanks pages.

Ŭalabio 05:01, 2004 Oct 8 (UTC)

Let's assume good faith. There have been technical issues that caused section deletion and page blanking before. Rhobite 05:20, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

Watchlist problems

My watchlist has just reverted to the version from 6:55:15 (last change shown). Anyone else having problems out there? Filiocht 12:26, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I am seeing a similar "blanking" of my watchlist. - UtherSRG 13:49, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Seems fine now. - UtherSRG 14:38, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
My watchlist is not being updated at all since 02:05:27.--Etaonish 14:41, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
Mine is coming and going, always reverting back to 6:55:15 when not up to date. Filiocht 14:45, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Another thing I noticed is that it says "In the time period selected below, users have made all edits to articles". Strange. [[User:Norm|Norm]] 14:48, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Yes - I'm having trouble with my watchlist too! If I select "last 12 hours" it sort of works. If it's set to 1 day, it loses the Sept 30 changes. What's going on? Krupo 17:45, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
    • The Simpsons article is also having problems with its history - unable to do a revert. Krupo 17:50, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Announcing the creation of the U.S. Southern Wikipedians' notice board

A few of us have gotten together and made a our notice board to coordinate efforts and inform each other. If you're interested, just sign up at Wikipedia:U.S. Southern Wikipedians' notice board. Y'll come join us, ya hear? [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 22:00, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

Is there a page listing the various notice boards? How many are there? I see Irish, Australian and Malaysian. Rmhermen 23:22, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
Wikipedia:List of Wikipedian notice boards. Mike H 05:55, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
The Thai notice board was forgotten there - but it was created just 2 days ago anyway :-) andy 07:58, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Do you have to eat grits and have a double-barrelled christian name to join? ;)Dainamo 00:56, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

2001 invasion of Afghanistan

I tried asking this August 8 at Talk:Global protests against war on Iraq so I'm trying here: Is there any article similar to Global protests against war on Iraq with respect to protests against the 2001 invasion of Afghanistan? MathKnight and I have covered some of this ground in Post-September 11 anti-war movement, but that might not be the best place for some of this. -- Jmabel 00:51, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

There was less protest, so there's probably no separate page. National entities which were able to sell reactors to Iraq and whose leaders were able to profit from the "Oil for Food" money laundering scam protested less about Afghanistan, as there was no money to be made there. Things might have been different if the U.N. had started an "Opium for Food" program. - Émpire
In the UK there was opposition from the communists (a small but very organised and very vocal minority) and some Muslims, and some pacifists to the Afghanistan Campaign. In contrast the Iraq War was opposed by major a political party (the LibDems, with the SNP and Plaid Cymru, and certain sections of the Labour Party. In London, a million people marched against the War -- opposition was popular rather than coming from those who profited from money laundering, as suggested. The communists did take it upon themselves to organise everything. Once Iraq started, everyone forgot about Afghanistan anyway, so it's probably worth mentioning in the background section rather than having its own article. Afghanistan also put together the for the first time the alliance of the Muslims and the communists. Dunc|☺ 12:05, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Help request

I'm working on a page which explains the western land claims surrended by the original Thirteen Colonies in the early years of the American republic. As I've researched, it's become clear to me that there would be no better way to do this than to have a map. Is there anyone out there who knows how to do this, has software which is helpful, digs cartography or knows where I can find a public domain version of this material? I've found several examples on the web. My vomit draft of the page--did I mention it was a vomit draft?--is at User:Jengod/State_cessions. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

User:Decumanus is reputed [1] to be a map whizz. Could ask him/her. --Tagishsimon

Cleanup

Cleanup is seriously full. (See Wikipedia:Cleanup/Leftovers) This is not a problem that has been building up for very long, it is a problem with the concept of cleanup. There are too many improperly formatted articles submitted to cleanup for the amount of people working on it. I don't have a solution that would be acceptable to many people, but that list is overwhelming. - [[User:Cohesion|cohesion ☎]] 09:14, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps a category structure similar to the one now in use for stubs would help? Andrewa 22:15, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Has it helped for stubs? anthony (see warning) 23:00, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
In reply to Anthony, it's a bit early to call, it's a long term strategy. And it will be difficult to call anyway. We only have one Wikipedia, so we can't say what would have happened had we followed some other route. I admit I've made little personal use of the stub categories as of yet, but IMO this is the sort of direction in which we need to be headed. Wikipedia's growth shows no sign of levelling off. This is one strategy for dealing with that growth. Andrewa 00:24, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Duplicate date on Anniversary section of Main Page

The Main Page says "Recent days: September 29 – September 28 – September 28" at the bottom of the "Selected anniversaries" section. PhilHibbs 12:36, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've changed it to "Recent days: September 29 – September 28 – September 27". 66.167.235.209 15:23, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Notifications of planned down time

Wikipedia was virtually unuseable from Tuesday evening (Pacific time) through most of Wednesday; if it even responded to my SAVE attempts (and didn't give me an error message), it took at least 5 minutes before the save took effect. When I brought this up on the English language mailing list, Anthere said that there was planned maintenance going on. If people are planning on doing maintenance which is going to majorly impact the useability of Wikipedia, could they please let us know in advance? Thanks. RickK 18:50, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Deletion precedent?

Quick announcement--should major-party candidates for national government (e.g. U.S. Congress, British Parliament, Japanese Diet, etc.) be article subjects, assuming they're not expected to win and aren't notable for other reasons? Weigh in at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Adam Smith (KY politician). [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 21:38, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

Query?

Has the way links appear changed recently? i.e. weren't all links underlined? If this is the case a.) can i change it back on my screen and b.) where can i protest the change? I suffer from colour-blindness and find it very difficult to see the red links amongst the black text. [[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն ]] 23:54, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Looks like links are underlined for me right now. Which css are you using? anthony (see warning) 00:03, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
If you go to your preferences page (in the monobook skin, it's the link titled "preferences" at the top of the screen), and click on the "Misc. settings" tab, you should be able to check a box to underline links. Though how the box was unchecked in the first place, I wouldn't know. Anthony may be right that this is a css problem, if you've altered your monobook.css page at all. Also, I seem to recall that, under the classic skin (I think), there was a user setting that prevented stubs from being underlined, but that may be my poor memory. Jwrosenzweig 00:24, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I didn't alter the settings or the monobook.css. However the links have just changed back to their old form by themselves. Nevermind. Thanks for you help[[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն ]] 01:03, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I have my box unchecked and I'm still getting underlined links. It never did this until a few minutes ago. I even tried to clear my cache, but it didn't help. Is someone working on the css or system? I tried switching skins and it looks like this problem only happens with the MonoBook skin. —Mike 04:25, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)
This has happened to me a couple of times. I found that switching my preferences to not underline links, then switching back and forcing a refresh fixing the problem. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 18:08, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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