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Star Trek versus Star Wars

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Star Trek versus Star Wars debates are indulged in by a small minority of fans of the Star Trek and Star Wars series who enjoy discussing with (and/or trolling) one another and will be the first ones against the wall once the revolution comes.

A stereotypical post on a newsgroup or web board might pose a question such as:

"Which would win? The Enterprise-D or a Star Destroyer?"

(and often just wait for the flames).

In July 1997, the alt.startrek.vs.starwars newsgroup was created to try and shift these (often heated) debates off the more "mainstream" Star Trek and Star Wars groups. As of 2004, some 265,000 posts had been made to the group. One of the earliest threads, discussing the stereotypical question provided above, dragged out over 1,200 posts without reaching any kind of conclusion.

Some problems faced by those who enjoy indulging in such speculations include the internal inconsistencies in both fictional universes, definitions of which "evidence" should be acceptable from the plethora of books, comics, and other published materials, and how (or even if) real-world physics and engineering should be used to analyse this evidence.

The phenomenon has been parodied on usenet and the web by even more ludicrous pairings, such as Mr.T vs everything.

The AOTC:ICS and the Decline of the Debate

This once furious debate has taken both a serious boost and blow in 2002 due to the publication of Attack of the Clones: Incredible Cross Sections, better known by its acronyms AOTC:ICS or EP2:ICS. It is loved by pro-Wars people, hated by pro-Trek people because:

1) It is the one of the few sources which quantify critical statistics like Firepower, Shield Dissipation and Power Generation, instead of the more usual and fuzzy qualitative descriptions.

2) As a 'definitive' work, it enjoys a very high position among 'C-canon', making it more difficult to counter with other official sources.

These two factors combine to wipe out most of the already shrinking semantic maneuvering room left to the pro-Trek side in scientific analysis. Unsurprisingly, the pro-Trek side has initially made some rather vigorous attacks, but most had eventually came to accept the book and continue on with the debate as best as they could.

The source, in providing an easy, effective defense for the pro-Wars side, freed up their resources in transitioning to the offensive. Within the arena of scientific analysis, the consensus for photon torpedo yields (one of Star Trek's primary weapons, so its yield had been an area of long contention) dropped a full order of magnitude.

Further worsening the position of the pro-Trek side is the increase in the consensus for SW weapons firepower and shielding - an increase of an order of magnitude. The pro-SW side states that it is no more than a transition from using results of absolute lower-limit calculations to the use of more realistic figures.

However, after a brief period of such activity, it also effectively ended the main debate. Pro-Trek debaters occasionally mention they would still have maneuvering room had the AOTC:ICS not come to dash their hopes. Pro-Wars debaters state that all the pieces were there before, and all the AOTC:ICS did was put it in a complete picture that shattered the illusions of the pro-Trek side. But whatever the truth, Star Trek vs Star Wars activity clearly slowed, by as much of an order of magnitude, and most debates had turned to esoteria of little strategic importance, hopelessly mismatched scenarios (such as TIE Defenders vs Federation Ships), and "educating" newcomers, lovingly known as "newbies" before they are flamed to a crisp on many of the less moderated boards.

  • the alt.startrek.vs.starwars newsgroup FAQ - Maintained by Chuck Sonnenburg.
  • StarDestroyer.Net - a huge Star Wars-themed website by mechanical engineer Michael Wong that takes a scientific approach to comparing the technologies of the two universes. The site is quite controversial because of its extremely aggressive and mercurial character, written tongue-in-cheekly in the guise of a Star Wars Imperial officer named Jarren Korr. Mike Wong's conclusions tend to be rejected by the more extreme "VS Trekkie" crowd ("Federation cultists", as the site puts it). The website also contains fan fiction and a very active BBS community.
  • The Ultimate Star Wars vs. Star Trek Database - Wayne Poe's Star Wars vs. Star Trek website, one of the first to arise in the debate and the inspiration for Michael Wong's website. This site was designed by Wayne as a counter to the former prevalence of the "VS Trekkie" movement that once dominated the debate on USENET. The content of the site is based almost exclusively on actual posts and emails that Wayne has accumulated over the years.
  • st-v-sw.net - written by "Guardian 2000", also known as "Darkstar", this site takes an approach on comparing the Star Trek and Star Wars universes seemingly similar to that of Michael Wong and arrives at contrary conclusions. Both Darkstar and his website are also very controversial in the debating community.
  • Spacebattles.com - a website showing fan based movies on Star Trek and Star Wars, amongst other science fiction universes. It also contains a hugely popular web board for discussion on Star Trek vs. Star Wars debates amongst other topics pertaining to science fiction. Many Spacebattlers are also members of the Stardestroyer.net forums and intermingle freely.
  • Daltonator.net - Rob Dalton's site hosts two vs.-debate-related sections: the alt.startrek.vs.starwars Fanfic Archive, which contains nearly sixty megabytes of Star Trek versus Star Wars crossover fanfiction, and the FUQ, a collection of SWvST cultural idiosyncrasies and humorous anecdotes gathered mainly from alt.startrek.vs.starwars and the SDN BBS.
  • TrekWars: The Furry Conflict - A lighter take on the Star Trek vs. Star Wars niche, featuring original characters, role play, technical discussion, and an extensive central story.
  • Star Wars Technical Commentaries - By Curtis Saxton, this is not a Star Trek vs Star Wars site. Nevertheless, it probably spawned the start of scientific analysis of sci-fi, and is a premier reference on Star Wars technical data. The Pro-SW side of the debate find this to be a valuable resource.
  • Daystrom Institute Technical Library - by Graham Kennedy, this is also not a a Star Trek vs Star Wars site. His calculations are highly controversial, but it is still a resource for Star Trek esoteria. Has far more speculation than the Star Wars Technical Commentaries and Star Trek vs Star Wars, and while the text is generally color coded to discriminate between Canon and Speculation, there is occasional controversy over the appropriateness of the canonicity color coding on the text.
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