Talk:Jack Thompson (activist)

Archives
July – Oct. 2005 August – Oct. 2005 August – Oct. 2005 Oct. 2005 Oct. 2005 (continued) Feb. 2006 Feb. – March 2006 March 2006 March 2006 (continued) March – May 2006 May 2006

Archives

Note that Archives 1-7 are pre-WP:OFFICE article discussions. Archives 8-11 concern the current state of this article.

• As a fun note, I just put them in a much better format, and the archival system from 1-5 is strange, lots of overlapping. They also don't seem to be long enough to warrant an archive. From Archive 6 on, they are pretty long and extensive. Hbdragon88 06:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

New article

There is a new article up now. Everything in it comes from reputable mainstream sources. I would say that the weakest sources here are either a small local publication like the Toledo Blade, or perhaps a paper like the New York Post, depending on what you think of it. In any case, this level of sourcing will be the minimum expected for the article henceforth.

If a proposed source is not as good or better than these sources, it must be discussed on the talk page first. Without a strong case to specifically use one and general agreement on its inclusion, a lesser source will not be allowed - no LiveJournal. All additions and changes must provide a reference. Anything that doesn't will be summarily reverted. --Michael Snow 14:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

“Nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer,”

http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/police/2924321.html

He apparently told police to search a suspects house for video games, due to his belief that games make killers.

IanC 21:41, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Minton, James (2006-06-03). "Video games seized from teen's home". The Advocate. Retrieved 2006-06-03. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameters: |curly= and |coauthors= (help) Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:16, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Just when you think he's already lost his last marble, he throws out another one. If this won't stop the media from taking him seriously, nothing will. user:-SA-

The latter option is more likely: nothing will, because nothing is "serious" in the infotainment biz. Black-and-white worldviews and extremist, frothing soundbites sell ad time. They're good for business. It's why people like Thompson, Springer, Coulter, and O'Reilly aren't working at car washes, AMSCOTs, and Checkers'. Hatred and venom are entertainment. Kasreyn 02:35, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

This guy isn't going to go down easily, meaning he'll cause as much disruption as he can before something or someone shuts his power function off, like telling him to stop while he's ahead for example. A walking tank that can't be slowed down oddly enough. That's for sure. 24.188.203.181 22:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Another SLAPP injunction against him might just do the trick. Raul654 20:21, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

That's not appropriate. Using the law as a blunt instrument to silence someone is always wrong, even with someone as misguided and hateful as Thompson. Freedom of expression includes even those, like Thompson, who only want to spray venom and lay blame rather than solving problems. In a sane world, where people actually bothered to educate themselves, Thompson's grandstanding nonsense statements would be laughed to silence everywhere he went. It's a sad statement of how uneducated and credulous journalists and the public are, that he is actually given airtime as if he made sense. Kasreyn 02:14, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Normally I'd agree, but I've done research. If the ESA wanted, they have an estimated 130 counts of Liebel in print that he could be hit with. I think shutting him up with a Slapp complaint might be letting him off easy by comparison! But thats just my opinion.

Do we really need this line?

Thompson hopes retailers end up in court so often, that they will choose to stop selling violent games altogether.

I know he said it, but the line is completely out of place where it is, and is just inciting a POV. I removed it for now but wanted to open debate.--Tollwutig 15:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

It does seem out of place where it is. I think it should go with his legislation in Lousiana, since that's where he made the quote. Jabrwock 15:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe down in lobbying?

As reasoning behind his push for legislation to penalize retailers, Thompson has said he hopes retailers end up in court so often, that they will choose to stop selling violent games altogether.

Jabrwock 15:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with it there but not in the second paragraph. It didn't fit in. Also this should be changed to a quotation so that it lacks POV. --Tollwutig 15:37, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

After reading it the entire second paragraph could use work. I am going to take out: "This includes filing lawsuits on behalf of the victims of crimes committed by juveniles allegedly inspired by violent video games and lobbying for legislation restricting distribution of these games." Again doesn't fit in with the introduction of the article and is extraneous. Really the article covers his activities to render this sentence pointless. Not to mention it doesn't work in the paragraph.

So I rewrote the 2nd paragraph. If someone can figure a better way to reword it please do.--Tollwutig 14:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Line was re-added by FatherTime89. I invited him here to discuss the line. I also removed the line. Placing it where it was makes the article POV. I know he said it, but needs to be quoted and placed in the activism subheader if anywhere.--Tollwutig 16:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Well someone did post it in the second paragraph and apparently micheal snow was fine with because it was up there for quite a while. I think it does deserve a place somewhere. Father Time89 02:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with it being in the article, just not where it was. At the end of that paragraph it just stuck out, didn't read well, and looked like a POV screaming "SEE WHAT HE WANTS TO DO!" I don't mind the statement being in the article but it is not something that really belongs in a summary (which is what the introduction is for). That is a detail, and thus belongs under the appropriate heading. --Tollwutig 12:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thompson Inspires Video Game

A freeware game inspired by Thompson called I'm O.K. is available at http://imokgame.com/index.html

The game idea is that after his son is killed by a gamer, his father seeks vengence against the video game industry and others that led to his son's death.

Old news, and it is included sort of in the Modest Proposal section...--Tollwutig 14:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

A Criticism Section?

Shouldn't there be one, since there are many critics of his views and his tactics? --165.124.162.170 02:44, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

After all this trouble that he's been causing, it should get put up, so long as there's links to back up the criticism, like who's criticising him for example. 24.188.203.181 05:12, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The problem is this article is nearly POV as it is adding a criticism section would only worsen it. Not to mention it needs some trimming as its getting long again.--Tollwutig 13:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

You people fear litigation too much, many other biographys of high-class political and legal members have criticism sections on their bios, Ann Coulter for one, George Bush is another. A litigation fairy like Jack Thompson requires one as well, considering his is an outspoken member of the Florida legal system on a one man crusade against video games. He has garnered a lot of enemies and criticism alike, and they should be mentioned. This sanitized article makes him look like he's an angel, rather the showing both sides of the equation. - 59.167.36.35 07:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

As long as the criticism is well sourced and phrased in a NPOV way then it should be perfectly fine. Konman72 07:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

New photo

[1] Is a good, professional photo. I don't know about licensing, but thought I'd bring it up in case someone wants to fiddle with it. President Lethe 04:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I am going to email dennis at gamepolitics and see if we can get the source and copyright for some of the pics he has been using for Thompson. There is one I know is most likely public domain as it is Thompson testifying before the LA House committee.--Tollwutig 13:55, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I very much prefer this photo. It does look more professional than that old TV picture. It came from Kotaku.com. Heh, notice the receding hairline. :p KungFu-tse 18:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe this was in this article before, but was removed because it was ripped from his self-written book. I can't quite remember the details but it was copyright violation so the picture was reverted to the one you see now. -86.134.68.16 20:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I sm still showing the tv pic, which is awful... bleh forgot to sign--Tollwutig 13:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Let's just be careful, we don't want Mr. Thompson to attack us (Wikipedia) and start yelling about copyright infringement. :P Havok (T/C/c) 14:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

There's his image at the Lousiana hearings. http://media.2theadvocate.com/images/250*183/leg+video+games+051106.jpg http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/2782806.html?index=1 Jabrwock 20:27, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

The copyright probably belongs to The Advocate. President Lethe 15:25, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

He just doesn't add up...

"Only hitmen or video gamers shoot people in the face."

Well, what about jealous ex-husbands or wives or employees? What about mentally unstable people?

Take a look at what he's saying: video games make every child a violent killing machine.

Puh-lease. I'm a minor; I play Silent Hill and Halo. Yet, you don't see ME going around shooting random people or mutilating them with a katana, do you?

Yes, there ARE people who have killed, claiming to be inspired by video games. But, compare that number of people to the number of people who PLAY videogames in the USA alone: it's comparing an anthill to a mountain. It's only people with some sort of mental problem that do the killing, usually; the casual gamer doesn't randomly want to shoot people because of a violent game they've played. Video games provide outlets to most people, not training devices!

You're kind of preaching to the choir. I haven't seen any Thompson supporters on this talk page. Besides, it's not really intended for debate about him. (Not that I really have a leg to stand on there, since I've aired my own personal opinions here.) Kasreyn 00:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thompson outs Take Two board member

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003049735_policefoundation09m.html

As chairman of the Seattle Police Foundation, Michael Malone has helped raise money for life-saving gear for city cops. He also sits on the board of a software firm that sells blockbuster games in which gamers try to elude police and kill them.

Florida attorney Jack Thompson, who testified in Olympia in 2003 in support of the law, found Malone's name among Take-Two's board members Thursday and sent an e-mail to the Seattle Police Foundation and local media.

Malone cannot take money from Take-Two and "portray himself as a friend of the officers who lay their lives on the line," Thompson said. "I think it's unethical, hypocritical and duplicitous. The Seattle Police Foundation and the men and women they represent should be pretty upset." Jabrwock 15:35, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Section for any discussion of my recent NPOV edit

Please discuss here if you have any questions or concerns. Thanks! Kasreyn 18:49, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

From what I saw they look good. Thanks for cleaning up some of the stuff, particularly my wording on the second paragraph. If you can find somewhere to put in the sentence I removed feel free to do so (see DO WE REALLY NEED THIS LINE). It's always nice to have new people come clean up stuff some of us have been reading for months.--Tollwutig 12:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Flowers for Jack

'...Thompson rejected this overture and forwarded the flowers to some of his industry foes, with such comments as “Discard them along with the decency you discarded long ago. I really don’t care. Grind them up and smoke them if you like.”'

I'd just like to take a moment to unerline this.

What an ignorant, arrogant, self-centered little dweeb this man is. A community of people that he has outright attacked and slandered without any logical justification make an absolutely mature, civil and beautiful gesture to approach him and ask him to put the daggers away for just a minute, and his reaction? Throw the (expensive!) goodwill gift into the garbage, right before slinging-off yet more insults and condescension. If he didn't WANT the flowers, he could've at LEAST followed-through on the advice and DONATED them to a local HOSPITAL (...in all hope, perhaps the 'industry opponents' he forwarded them to will have a better appreciation for them).

And HE wants to start throwing-out the accustations of human indecency, anti-social behavior and moral ambiguity? The man needs to arrange a date with his own reflection.

You're not really telling us anything new, but this is Wikipedia so in the article itself we have to keep that Point of View out --Tollwutig 14:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Degree

What degree does he actually have? LL.B., LL.M., J.D., S.J.D.? --Mr. Orange 62.168.125.219 22:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Under See Also...

I believe under the See Also section should be a link to Hypocrisy.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.231.10.143 (talk • contribs) 00:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

See also: WP:NPOV for why we can't do that. Cheers, Kasreyn 01:32, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a factual encyclopedia, correct? Then it would make sense to at least put a link to Internet Troll (but not hypocrisy) under See Also. We cant let point of view get in the way of the facts (that is, the point of view that we must obscure factual references in order to negate the percieved negative point of view towards Jack Thompson). The act of internet trolling is not entirely point of view based, as there are definite criteria one must meet before being classified as an internet troll. Jack Thompsons behavior on GamePolitics can definitely be described as trolling just as a new species of plant may be classified as a vegetable based on certain traits.--void main 02:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

But the GamePolitics stuff in not verifiable, and if it were sufficiently notable in the context of this article it certainly would be verifiable, wouldn't it? I don't know; I suppose it has as much a place on the See Also list as GamePolitics.com. --Maxamegalon2000 03:12, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I took out the "internet troll" link because Wikipedia has very strict guidelines for biographies of living persons, so without very heavy evidence we can't put anything on here that could possibly be construed as offensive by Jack himself. Konman72 04:39, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

There are hundreds of articles that are offensive to a wide scope of people and I'm quite sure Jack finds the very presence of this article offensive. A link to internet troll definitely deserves to be there as much as a GamePolitics link, his acts of trolling are completely verifiable (just go over and see).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.89.55 (talk • contribs)

False! To assume that any or every Internet posting signed "Jack Thompson" belongs to him is obviously flawed, and without some sort of independant verification or coverage, to verify that the postings are his qualifies as original research. Also, please don't sign your comments with a user name that you are not logged in as. --Maxamegalon2000 17:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Game Politics has and has provided proof of this, but that's not the point. Trolling is subjective and doesn't belong in an encyclopedia any more than labelling some religions cults. Ace of Sevens 00:39, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

According to the short description on the trolling page: "An Internet troll makes comments intended to induce an angry response." Seems pretty clear cut to me. In order to be an Internet Troll all one needs to do is to make comments with the intention of getting people annoyed. The act of insulting people and of making fun of suicides are obviously actions designed to incite an angry response. --void main 14:25, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you can find a reliable source of equal or greater prestige to the ones we're currently using in the artice that says he did that, then by all means add it. Otherwise, you'll have to convince us that the incident is so significant that we should lower our citation standards to include it. I have to say, though, that if it were that significant, a reliable source of equal or greater prestige would have picked it up. --Maxamegalon2000 14:36, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

That's the point. Trolling is a matter of intentions, which are unverifiable. Ace of Sevens 23:12, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Along with everything on this article and every single article on the entire Wikipedia? Point out to me a single article that is completely, 100% verifiable and I will be quite surprised. There is very little doubt that Jack Thompsons intentions were definitely to anger the gamers and the people on GamePolitics.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Void main (talk • contribs)

To quote Michael Snow above, "If a proposed source is not as good or better than these sources, it must be discussed on the talk page first. Without a strong case to specifically use one and general agreement on its inclusion, a lesser source will not be allowed - no LiveJournal." Yes, every Wikipedia article should be completely, 100% verifiable. This is not the place to argue for or against this policy. And if you find an article that is not as such, feel free to edit it. Also, as Mr. Thompson is a living person, we should be extra careful. --Maxamegalon2000 01:55, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

As we well know, 100% verifiability is completely impossible, as there is no such thing as a 100% reliable source. If you do not feel that GamePolitics is not even a minutely reliable source, or that perhaps the posts under Jack Thompsons name were somehow typed out by a hyperintelligent household pet sitting at Jacks computer or by someone other than Jack himself then you have a lot of editing ahead of you, perhaps you ought to start with the GamePolitics.com?--void main 08:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

"shock jock"

I question the objectivity of this phrase; I have heard it used in a disparaging manner. It should be replaced with "radio personality," "radio talk show host" or some other variant. Also, after reading the Stern article and its inclusion of the negative connotation, I am further puzzled by its use in this article.

Varmintx 10:24, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I concurr - however, this term was used in the page for Howard Stern. I suggest you bring this up in the Howers Stern talk page before making the change here (if not done so already), as other pages on Wikipedia appear to use this term. --Sigma 7 02:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it more appropriate to describe Stern as he is described in the first sentence of his article, as a "radio and TV personality." That's a more objective and enyclopedic way of describing him. --ElKevbo 02:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

On the Stern page, it is used in the context that he is called a shock jock not that he is a shock jock. I will go ahead and change it here and I would suggest to it be changed anywhere else it is found.

Varmintx 21:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Videos of the guy?

I've been looking everywhere, google video, you-tube, but I can't find any videos of him on the air. Like that picture of him on the Wiki. Anyone have a video of that interview? I'd really like to see this guy in action.

Counterpoints

Not for nothing, but shouldn't there be some sort of counter point in this article. Not along the lines of "He's a nut" or anything, but shouldn't there be some sourced, verified counter points to his statments in the article, that is, if were trying to make it truly encyclopedic, then shouldn't counter views be presented as well, or is Wikipedia to affraid of legal action to put anything that is critical of thompson in the article? Just a thought.

I don't really think it fits since this isn't about his ideas, it is about him, as a person. So we state his ideas and opinions and then link to the articles about those so the people can then read those and decide for themselves. But maybe someone else thinks different. Konman72 04:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I think a counter point can only be made if he makes a factual statement that can be contradicted. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 05:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I think your analysis is correct, Konman72. A very brief summary of counterpoints with pointers to further information may be appropriate in some limited cases. But nothing more since this is a biographical article. --ElKevbo 05:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

theflabar.org

Thompson's website has been vandalised in the last few months, i dont think anyone noticed or cared, but it still does contain his "public rant" about his actions against the florida bar, perhaps this should be included on the main page?