Talk:John Hagelin

I believe the final sentence referring to educational "posters" should be removed entirely. Considering the statement in its original form and a web search it appears to be a superfluous personal anecdote. --24.2.154.16 00:39, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

These beautifully illustrated posters are regarded as unique collector items by particle physicists and mathematicians in that they are full of mathematical equations which have correct "grammar" interposed with Transcendental Meditation.

This statement is a combination of POV with some assertions of (ahem) questionable veracity. I've spent plenty of time around physicists and mathematicians, and haven't heard of these posters. As to what "correct" grammar is, I have no idea.

However, it is generally acknowledged that the means by which he is attempting to demonstrate this connection are within the norms of the scientific method and that he has a competent background in particle physics, and as a result Hagelin's work within particle physics is well respected in the physics community.

I question the accuracy of this. The impression I've gotten from the few physicists I've talked with about Hagelin is that while his early work was respected, work he's done since he became a TM advocate is not. Perhaps I'm incorrect, but I don't want to leave this endorsement of his work unless someone can back it up. Isomorphic 23:44, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Ok, I am now going to be very rude, politically incorrect, and decidedly POV.

Crackpot! Crackpot! Crackpot! Crackpot! Crackpot! Crackpot!

Ok, I'm done. Not suggesting any changes to the article, just had to get that off my chest. Tualha 20:46, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

For a time he was one of the most successful crackpots out there. I remember watching his political ads and he gained about as much attention as the major third party candidates.--T. Anthony 15:20, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Running mate

Michael Tompkins or Vinton Tompkins (Vinton D. Tompkins)? I've seen it given both ways. Esquizombi 10:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

problem with wording about John's retiring from active research

The current article says " After that he tried to link particle physics to Transcendental Meditation and failed to publish a single paper in an established journal. His last accepted contribution to physics is from 1994" This first is actually completely backward, but I don't know an easy way to correct the misconception. At the least, it is more accurate to say that once he started running for political office, he stopped publishing scientific papers. As for the second sentence, his last contribution was published in 1995, not 1994.

To show why the statement is completely wrong, you can examine the timeline of his professional work:

1981 PhD in Physics; 1982 published research affiliated with CERN 1983 published research affiliated with SLAC 1984 -1995 published research affliated with Maharishi University of Management (FKA MIU).

[1]

Hagelin produced a stream of research in callaboration with Ellis and Nanopoulos, most of it AFTER he went to work at the TM university. In fact, according to Hagelin, HE was the one to start the revision of Flipped SU(5) which made the reputation of all three researchers. By Hagelin's account, he spent some time with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (MMY) in Switzerland discussing what a western Theory of Everything would need to include to be compatible with MMY's interpretation of Vedic cosmology. After their talk, Hagelin returned to MUM/MIU and started examining various western theories. Flipped SU(5) seemed to be the easiest to modiy along the lines that MMY suggested, and after the initial modifications, Hagelin realized that they made flipped SU(5) a much stronger scientific theory. He faxed the original modifications to Ellis at CERN who then contacted Nanopoulos, the original author of flipped SU(5), and the three produced a slew of papers on the subject for the next several years, starting with this one in 1987.

I can't say whether or not Hagelin's co-authors have "distanced themselves from him," but it certainly isn't simply because he attempted to connect TM theory to superstring theory because that attempt is what led to the fame of all three in the Theoretical PHysics world.

Additionally, both Ellis and Nanopoulos have published papers attempting to link Quantum Mechanics and consciousness, so this also suggests that they are not completely distainful of Hagelin's theories. Sparaig 06:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Made change

Made the changes I said I would. Sparaig 16:46, 24 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

variouis edits

Reformatted timeline and corrected a few factual errors about who did what where in DC study.Sparaig 03:48, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

crime rate statistics...

The crime rate statistic cited was for yearly rate. The study examined the crime rate week-by-week for a specific period. You can't use the rate averaged over a year's period to refute a claim made about the weekly rate for an 8-week period. I have no idea if the claims made are valid, but you have to address the claims made in order to refute them. Sparaig 02:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Superstringtheory and TM

source: http://www.nhne.com/misc/hagelin.html

"John Hagelin did begin his career in physics with great promise. He now claims, however, to be the primary author of one of quantum physic's hottest theories. Superstring theory seeks to explain all physical laws in terms of one, neat system. Rather than being primary author, however, Hagelin was the second or third author on the foundational superstring papers, behind John Ellis, director of the eminently prestigious CERN, and others. (Authors on scholarly papers are traditionally listed in order of their contribution to the paper's contents.) And as you can read below, his co-authors and other noted scientists now distance themselves from -- and sometimes outright ridicule -- Hagelin's current theories linking Transcendental Meditation and the Maharishi's teachings with quantum physics. Meanwhile, his publications have gradually dwindled -- with no new publications since 1994."

"Hagelin & Quantum Theory: Holding on by a Superstring, (http://www.trancenet.org/nlp/physics/superstring.shtml ) from Nature, Vol. 359, Christopher Anderson, Sept. 10, 1992. In this article from one of the most prestigious journals in science, physicist Hagelin is accused of distorting science to fit his guru's ideas. Hagelin's former colleagues in superstring theory disown his theories of consciousness and politics."

source: http://minet.org/TM-EX/Fall-92

"Not surprisingly, the linkage of SU(5) with TM infuriates his former collaborators. It is hard enough, they complain, to win scientific support for any type of unified theory. ``A lot of people [Hagelin] has collaborated with in the past are very upset about this, says Jorge Lopez, a Texas A&M University physicist. ``It's absolutely ludicrous to say that TM has anything to do with flipped SU(5)."

"John Ellis, director of CERN's theoretical physics dept., has asked Hagelin to stop mixing TM and SU(5). ``I was worried about guilt by association, Ellis explains. ``I was afraid that people might regard [Hagelin's assertions] as rather flaky, and that might rub off on the theory or on us."

Therefore, I removed the following unsourced paragraph:

"1986

After a series of discussions with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi on the potential relationship between Physics and Vedic Cosmology, Hagelin made some preliminary modifications in Flipped SU(5) Superstring Theory to make it more in-tune with Vedic philosophy, which coincidentally also made the theory more robust from a Western scientific perspective. He contacted John Ellis of CERN with this information who then contacted Dimitri Nanopoulos and the three published many papers on the subject over the next several years."

I do not dispute that Hagelin wrote a paper about Superstringtheory, but I consider "make it more in-tune with Vedic philosophy, which coincidentally also made the theory more robust from a Western scientific perspective" TM-folklore. -- mkrohn 13:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The info is from a lecture Hagelin gave many years ago. I don't have a date for the lecture, but it is a reasonable paraphrase of what Hagelin claims. I'm putting it back in with the ole revert button, if I canfigure out how to do it, or with copy/paste if I can't. Sparaig 17:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]