Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One/Archive 2

Bobo192's proposal

User:Bobo192 proposed the following for driver articles.

Drivers

Provisional idea only - unapproved (as yet).

There should be a complete article on every driver who has completed in a Formula One race. Information in this article should be set out as follows.

..name.. (born ..month day.. ..year.., died ..month day.. ..year..) is/was a ..nationality.. ..Formula One.. driver.

• information*

And I'm thinking.. as I had set it up on the stubbed guys, there should be some kind of synopsis.

Grands Prix (as of *last race*): a starts (as of *last race*): b Pole positions (as of Race:year): c First Grand Prix: d e (where D=country/circuit and E=year) Last Grand Prix: f g (where F=country/circuit and G=year)

--Grands Prix participated in-- (change these to equals signs, and rephrase away from sloppiness)

(first Grand Prix) [Date Year (Country/Circuit Grand Prix)] [qualifying position] [qualifying time] [final race position] [points achieved in race] [xxxx (Country) Grand Prix Report]
(second Grand Prix) [Year (Country/Circuit Grand Prix)] [qualifying position] [qualifying time] [final race position] [points achieved in race] [xxxx (Country) Grand Prix Report]
... (last Grand Prix) [Year (Country/Circuit Grand Prix)] [qualifying position] [qualifying time] [final race position] [points achieved in race] [xxxx (Country) Grand Prix Report]

(complete table)

It looks nasty there, but it'll look prettier when I set the idea up. I'll show you what I have planned for one of the drivers.

(Note: In table form, this'll be sideways instead of downways)

An idea for the table

Ricardo Patrese:

Race Starts: 256 (or Races 257, if you prefer)

-1-

Race: Monaco Grand Prix 1977 (hyperlinked to race itself)
Date: May 22nd 1977 (not hyperlinked to anything)
Grid: (or Qual) 15 (not hyperlinked - or perhaps, if and when we get it set up, to the qualifying grid embedded in the race itself)
Time: 1 m 32.520 (both hyperlinked to minute (time) and second (time) in the first citation)
Posn: (or something of that sort): 9
Pnts: (in this case) 0

-*Last* (number 257, in actual fact)-

Race: Australian Grand Prix 1993
Date: November 7th 1993
Grid: (or Qual (position on start grid)): 9
Time: 1 m 16.077 s
Posn: (or something of that sort (position at end of race)): 8
Pnts: (in this case) 0

(begin table)

Headings:

Grand Prix Number
Grand Prix
Date
Qualifying Position
Qualifying Time
Grand Prix Final Position
Points in race

1
Grand Prix Of Monaco 1977
May 22nd 1977
15
1:32.560
9
0

...

257
Grand Prix Of Australia 1993
November 7th 1993
9
1:16.077
8
0

I promise I'll get to work on them soon. Read immediately below for my ideas.

Ricardo Patrese

Grand Prix Number	Grand Prix	Date	Qualifying Position	Qualifying Time	Grand Prix Final Position	Points in race
1	Grand Prix of Monaco 1977	May 22 1977	15	1:32.520	9	0
2	Grand Prix of Belgium 1977	June 5 1977	15	1:27.350	Ret	0
N	Grand Prix of country year>	[date]	[quali]	[qualitime]	[endposition]	[points]

And then at the bottom:

Pole Positions:

(start) ([year] Grand Prix of.. [circuit/location]) ([year] Grand Prix of.. [circuit/location]) (total) (end)

Victories:

(start) ([year] Grand Prix of.. [circuit/location]) ([year] Grand Prix of.. [circuit/location]) (total) (end)

I think this is worthwhile only for the single-Grand-Prix rookie kids and no-longer-running drivers (which, since I've demonstrated with dear Ricardo..!)

It got placed at the bottom, but you get the idea. Please PM me back if you feel you would like me to change this in any way.

Discussion

• I think these ideas are excellent, but having a complete list of results for every race entered by every driver might be too tall an order. An infobox on each driver page is, however, an excellent idea - it could have a few basic statistics, such as number of GP's entered, number of wins, and such. — Ðåñηÿßôý | Talk 22:17, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I agree with Danny; I think that listing every result for every driver is OTT. However, I do think it is a good idea to have a standardised table of major statistics for every driver. Either way, you are doing good work. Keep it up. SamH 10:02, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I also agree - listing the results of every race of a driver's career would just be too much. However, I'd welcome a table of major statistics (eg. number of races competed, number of race wins, number of pole positions, etc). Possibly an illustration of the driver's helmet design aswell? Could this be too difficult? doctorvee 16:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• Agreed... i think the stats on the Mark Webber page summarise whats needed pretty well. doctorvee, the current helmet designs are available for free for the press on the FIA Website - i guess if they are for the press, it would be fair use here? AlbinoMonkey 07:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Circuits

Infobox

I think each circuit article should have an infobox on it listing important statistics such as lap records, etc.

An example:

Sepang International Circuit
Location	Sepang, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Major events	Formula One Grand Prix; Motorcycle Grand Prix; (etc)
Circuit length	5.54 kilometers (3.44 miles)
Lap record	1'34.223 (Juan Pablo Montoya, Williams BMW, 2004)

It's a bit rough-and-ready, but this is the sort of thing I'm suggesting. Any thoughts? doctorvee 16:52, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Very nice. I can't think of any improvments at the moment. SamH 17:03, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Looks perfect to me. Can't think of anything else to add to it. Speedy afterthought: Except for the fact that we should maybe say [ [ Formula One ] ] [ [Grand Prix | Grands Prix] ], instead of Grand Prix, to use the accurate French plural on the grounds that there has been more than one race there. Bobo192

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try to think of more stuff to add, as I'm sure there are. I'm worried about circuit diagrams for a start. There isn't one for all of the Formula 1 circuits on Wikipedia, and I wouldn't know where to start creating my own. Furthermore, we must remember that these circuits hold events other than Formula 1, and many circuits have more than one variation (for example, the Sepang circuit can be set up at least three different ways and there is also a go-kart track [1], so I think these should also somehow be drawn into the diagrams. doctorvee 18:14, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think it's excellent. However, I suggest spelling out "Formula One Malaysian Grand Prix" or simply "Malaysian Grand Prix." — Ðåñηÿßôý | Talk 18:15, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Maps

Well I've been going through the Grand Prix pages putting in the infoboxes. But I've reached a bit of a dead end, as many circuits in the latter half of the calendar are missing a map. As I've said elsewhere, I wouldn't know how to go about creating my own. The person who drew up the maps which do exist appears to be quite busy with other things - he hasn't done anything on any Formula One articles since May. doctorvee 14:35, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

• I'm willing to have a go at creating some...I think a good idea is to basically go to Photoshop or Paint or whatever imaging program you have and stick a map that already exists next to a blank pic, and try and copy it as best you can. At the moment I am busy with exams, but after that I will be free and will put much more contribution to this project. AlbinoMonkey

Drivers best known outside F1?

Apologies if this has been thrashed out already, but what is the policy with regard to drivers who had a very minor F1 career, but were extremely successful in other forms of motorsport? A good example being Tony Marsh, who competed in only five Grands Prix and never scored a point, yet is a six-times British Hillclimb champion, still competes in hillclimbs and is considerably better known today in that capacity than he is as a Formula One driver. Loganberry 23:39, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A decent subset Formula One drivers, it seems, never used to be Formula One drivers, but drivers who sporadically competed in Formula One races. I'll grant you that what I'm referring to are either stand-in drivers or guys who generally ply/plied their trade elsewhere. I think that articles cannot merely be limited to one part of a guy's career. In my opinion, it's as important to include Marsh's hill-climb statistics, as it is to include the fact that in nineteen-mumble, someone won the championship which got them on the first rung of the ladder.

I think the information about other forms of racing is essential. After all, we're focussing on the drivers as pertains to biographical interest here.

Whether it's enough to say, "Schumi Sr. started racing karts in 84... (rest of article, covering career in prose) and eventually came through to win his seventh championship in 2004" (sloppy phrasing, but that's the idea) or not, is up to you guys, I think. Bobo192 18:10, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A good point. It is a problem, I know. But I think the answer is to take the approach of Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Obviously, in F1 circles Indianapolis is best known for the F1 circuit - but in America and at Indianapolis itself the oval and the Indy 500 are far more important than the F1 race. The article contains just a section for the Grand Prix. Similarly, if you look at the Toyota article, there is a separate Formula One section in it. A sticking point might be with somebody like Cristiano da Matta. He is probably most famous worldwide as the F1 driver, but he has gone back to Indycars of his own accord. I think a modest 'infobox' should be placed in a separate section for his Formula One career aswell, secondary to his overall career. doctorvee 10:01, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Drivers infobox proposal

OK, I thought I could get the ball rolling on a shorter infobox for drivers. I've taken the stats from Schumacher's article to come up with this. It's just a rough idea and as you can see, my table editing skills aren't brilliant. Certainly, it would be good if we could get free images of driver's helmets to pretty the infoboxes up. Please feel free to improve it as you wish. SamH 10:23, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Michael Schumacher
(Schumi's helmet, or an image of Schumacher himself)
Car #	1
Current team	Scuderia Ferrari
Race starts	212
World Championships	7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
Wins	83
Podium finishes	137
Points	1184
Pole positions	63
Fastest laps	66
First Grand Prix	1991 Belgian Grand Prix
First win	1992 Belgian Grand Prix
2004 Championship position	1st (148 points)

• That's lookin' really cool. Just had to correct a typo (hope you'll forgive me!). Maybe for the no-longer-running drivers, we can also include the statistic (after First Grand Pr