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Talk:Joe Lieberman

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by SandyGeorgia (talk | contribs) at 23:02, 9 August 2006 (→Endorsements: doesn't matter where). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Archive

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Reliable sources

Checks needed on the following for WP:V, WP:RS, and WP:BLP (which demands only the highest quality sources in biographies of living persons).

There may be others; these are only the ones I saw on a quick glance. Are the edus self-published? If so, they must be deleted per WP:BLP. Blogs are not reliable sources. I wasn't sure on some of the others. Sandy 13:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Gamespot website is owned by the tech news media company, CNET and is a well-known source for video game-related articles but it is debatable for an American politican biography. It could have a better source. That story could have be easily replaced with the Reuters article that was being cited by Gamespot, however I can't find it. I'm assuming Reuters gets rid of their old syndicated articles. --4.253.35.149 19:44, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, I found it. I will replace the Gamespot link with Reuters/Forbes. --4.253.35.149 19:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Website Hacked" Claims

I added a section about this, with all the info I have. If anyone has anything to add, please do. And please discuss drastic edits here before going ahead and deleting a whole paragraph or two.--Zaorish 13:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Zaorish, please familiarize yourself with WP:BLP; any poorly-sourced criticism on BLPs is deleted from article *and* talk pages. Sandy 14:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sandy, I was not aware of that policy. Thanks for showing it to me.

If WP:BLP demands a source for any news at all, then I can go and put back the same information with pointers to the news articles I got it from. I don't have time now, but I'll do it later.

-->I don't understand what you mean by "criticism", I was only reporting the *claims* of two sides of a story now under investigation. Could you please explain? And, if you consider what I wrote "criticism", then there is boatloads of that stuff in the talk archives here. Why is it not deleted?

--Zaorish 15:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Zaorish, I can't keep up with all of it: I can only keep up with what I see. Statements added to BLPs should be well referenced. There are plenty of places where you can source those comments: just do it. Sandy 15:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


NPOV?

I clicked here to see the NPOV rational but there's none here! Why is that tag still on the page? ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.249.168 (talk • contribs)

Check the archives. Smedley Hirkum 16:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Endorsements

The endorsements section is now irrelevant since Joe lost the primary. I added a little note above the endorsements stating they were inaccurate since so many people who endorsed Joe in the primary have endorsed Ned in the general. Can we delete this and instead link to the Connecticut Senate race page?? --Smedley Hirkum 16:22, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would support moving it somewhere; not needed here. Sandy 16:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What are you talking about? Sure, he lost the primary, but he's still running. The endorsments are still accurate. dposse 16:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The endorsements aren't even accurate in the first place. Lieberman got the support of all of Connecticut's state legislators? That can't be true. And the cited source doesn't work. --Smedley Hirkum 22:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree: I'd like to see them on the election page, rather than his personal page, to help keep the more static info here, and the dynamic info there. It's too hard to keep up with things in so many places. Sandy 16:43, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Smedley, let's get a drive for consensus, which we had before the LionO Stephenzhu revert war. All of this election stuff needs to go to the election article. Much of it is poorly sourced and poorly written, yet repeated in the election article, creating double work: we need to get it to one place so it can be cleaned up. Sandy 22:56, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I propose we delete our endorsements page (because it's inaccurate) and shorten the election section considerably, linking to the Senate Race article instead.

--Smedley Hirkum 22:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Like I said on the archived talk versions, I don't care where it ends up, just that we get all in one place. Right now, the series of articles are a mess, with repeated info, unreferenced info, limited adherence to BLP, need for copy editing. I support any move that gets the election stuff consolidated, for clarity and easy of editing. I keep deleting the same blogs from 3 articles ! Sandy 23:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Party status should change

moved from: [1] dposse 20:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When this page is unprotected, Lieberman's party status should be changed from Democratic Party (US) to Independent (politician). He has stated his intention to run against the Democratic candidate. Thesmothete 03:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, isn't he both? Independent means that he's not running for the Party in this years election, but that doesn't mean that he isn't still a democrat. Why should it be only Independent when he's only being a Independent for this one election? dposse 04:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, by way of example, what if he was "for this one election" running as a Republican? Would we still call him a Democrat? We might say that he was a Democrat, but not that he is one. The template uses both, and I think that makes sense. But he should not be listed unqualfiadly as a Democrat in any general sense, such as had been the case in the opening sentence. Thesmothete 04:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Then not only would he be going against his political beliefs by running as a republican, he would destroy any chance of winning by alienating himself from a completely blue state. It should be listed as both because he is still a democrat, but he's running in this election as a Independent. dposse 04:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Respectfully, that's missing the point. The point is that to be a Democratic politician, by definition you must support (or at least not oppose, certainly not run against) the Democratic nominee for the office. You can't run in and lose the Democratic primary and then merrily still be a Democratic candidate for office. Otherwise, why would the Democrats have a primary at all? Thesmothete 05:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Article 8, section 1 of the Democratic party charter states that the Democratic Party is open to all who desire to support the party and who wish to be known as Democrats. If he decides to run as an Ind, Lieberman is showing he doesn't support the party.--riffic 06:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not until and unless the papers are filed. Expect every senior member of the party to sit on him --Gorgonzilla 05:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

He had something like 48 percent of the vote. The petition should be ok. dposse 05:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lieberman is still a democrat. This article states infomation about his past, when he was a democrat. His political views are democratic on the Political spectrum. He is just running as an Independent as a title so he can keep his job. It should be listed as both because not only is he still a democratic, this article states factual content about his past where he was a democrat. I added a reference to the "political party" Independent thing so than it shows that he is running as a Independent in this one election. dposse 20:16, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

All the same, Lieberman may have had a fighting chance if he had the "balls" to appear on the Colbert Report for his interview. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cagreen20614 (talk • contribs)

Please sign your talk page entries by putting 4 tildes ~~~~ after your entry. Sandy 20:27, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


  • Lieberman's concession speech last night and his appearance on CNN's American Morning today represent a de facto resignation from the Democratic Party. As such, his party status should change to solely "independent," even after he drops out of the Senate race. ---FoodMarket talk! 20:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, he has not made any indication that he's withdrawing from this Senate race, although I suppose it's a possibility in the future.
Secondly, he did not resign from the Democratic Party.
He has already stated-repeatedly-that if he is re-elected he will caucus with the Democrats in the United States Senate.
Simply because he was defeated in this primary, and is not going to be the Democratic nominee in this election, does not mean that he has renounced his ties to the Democratic Party.

Ruthfulbarbarity 21:53, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This whole conversation is very confusing: for Wikipedia, his party status changes only when a *very* (WP:BLP) reliable source says it changed. Any other change here is original research. Sandy 22:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is the not-out-of-date source that says he is a Democrat? The default should be that a candidate has NO party affiliation (D) (R) (G) (S) or (I) until it has been established what that candidate's party affiliation is. There is a Democrat running for Senate. It is true, and there are many sources, that he WAS a Democrat. But where is the reliable source that says that he IS? All we know is that he is on the ballot as an independent candidate -- that's been widely reported. Can anyone find a Democratic Party website updated since the election that says he is, currently, a Democrat? Thesmothete 22:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're misuderstanding the issue here.
No one is asserting that Joe Lieberman is the Democratic nominee for this seat-nor asserting that Ned Lamont is not the official Democratic nominee-or that he is not running as an independent candidate, .
Those are indisputable, established facts.
However, the contention that he is no longer a registered Democrat, or that he has abjured any affiliation with the Democratic Party is not a fact.
In fact, there is no tangible evidence supporting this claim.
Perhaps he will leave the Democratic Party in the future, but that is merely speculation and conjecture at this point in time, not factual evidence.

Ruthfulbarbarity 22:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But see riffic's comment, above. Is there no other act, short of their own explicit renunciation, that could make someone not a Democrat? According to the Democrat's own platform, the criterion is support for the Party. He's opposing the Party's nominee; how else would you "not support" the party? It does appear that Lieberman is registered in Connecticut as a Democrat, but is that conclusive evidence of "Democrat"ness? What if he voted for Frist for Majority leader? Still a Democrat then? Perhaps the undisputed facts are that 1) he CLAIMS to be a Democrat, 2) he is REGISTERED as a Democrat, and 3) he filed to run AGAINST the official Democratic Party nominee as an Independent (another form of party registration, I might add...).Thesmothete 22:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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